We had 32 voters! Thank you to everyone for taking time to vote!
willdice, wtwlf123, preppypoof, Phantizle, cuttups, trogdoor, DerBK, KBH, Colby Cube, TheRift88, Ectazon, hoodwink, hopefulhawkeye, SpikeRogue, Ennex, pillar15, sandino, Fredo, Goodking, A. Smith, Metamind, rantipole, Star Slayer, MrConfusion, kingneb, Champman, Agest, toomaxz, Torggo, calibretto, Hicham, pablosleepy
Tendencies, Useless Ramblings & Facts
*Just Missed: Consecrated Sphinx (3.1), Cryptic Command (2.6) & Sower of Temptation (2.4)
*Repeat Champ: After a 19.9 in 2009 and a perfect 20.0 in 2010, Ancestral Recall three-peats as the #1, but this time with a fight.
*Repeat #2: After a 18.2 in 2009 and an 18.1 in 2010, Time Walk gave Ancestral Recall a run in 2014, stealing five #1 votes.
*Big Hitter: ZERO CARDS received a vote from everyone. Jace the Mind Sculptor was the closest, only missing 1 vote. Snapcaster Mage and Treachery each missed two votes.
*Anomaly: True-Name Nemesis cracks the Top 10 despite receiving 16 votes (half) of 9 or less, including 9 no-votes.
*Bi-Polar Award: Mana Drain had thirteen votes of 18, but also had 5 no-votes.
*Rookies: Snapcaster Mage (#8), True-Name Nemesis (#9), Vendilion Clique (#11), Phyrexian Metamorph (#12), Venser, Shaper Savant (#16), Glen Elendra Archamge (#17) and Opposition (#18) are all newcomers to Blue's Top 20 (A 4-year layoff will do that!)
*Interesting: 6 of the 7 Rookies are newly-printed creatures. The 7th is an enchantment that's been in print since 1999.
*Fall From Grace: Bribery (#6 in 2010) fell the most while maintaining a Top 20 spot. Gifts Ungiven (#11) and Force of Will (#13) fell completely out of the rankings.
*Consistency Award: Treachery, Tinker and Upheaval are always grouped together. In 2009, they ranked #4, #6, #7, in 2010 that changed to #4, #5, #9 and in 2014 they ran #5, #6, #7.
*Big Mover: Obviously, Snapcaster Mage moving from unranked to #8. But also note, Jace the Mind Sculptor moving from #12 in 2010 to #3 in 2014. I believe this is due to the collective "not knowing what we had", as Worldwake had just recently been released at the time the PRs took place.
*72 different cards received votes
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I'll tell you what, I was wondering if Phyrexian Metamorph was going to make the list, and then it got a flood of very good votes by the 2nd half of voters. After 21 voters, it had a high of 17 and two 13-votes, but everything else was 9 or less and it also had 5 no-votes. The final 11 votes went: 4, 13, 11, 15, 10, 10, no-vote, 5, 3, 14, 8 for a much stronger close than it opened.
Control Magic also had a frightening yet similar ride. After 19 voters, it had a 19 (??) and 11 (ELEVEN?!) no-votes. Definitely on the brink. The final 13 voters brought that thing it's ranking: 9, 8, 1, 7, 1, 13, 12, 6, 4, 14, 2, 9, 7.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I find the absence of Shelldock Isle almost criminal, well I guess the appreciation for the card just isn't as widespread as I thought.
It used to be appreciated and has really fallen out of favor. I just cut it from my cube after I was sick of hearing people sigh and have to put 3 cards they would have liked to draw onto the bottom of their library. Or have to put a good card under the isle and never use it. There are tons of reasons this card can be a complete miss in your deck and only a few reasons why you would want it. Cheating bigger spells into play and instant speed on cards that usually don't have it but that is about it. A few years ago the card might have made the top 20 blue cards of all time for cube but at this point I wouldn't even put it in the top 50.
I find the absence of Shelldock Isle almost criminal, well I guess the appreciation for the card just isn't as widespread as I thought.
I don't personally think it is in the top 20 for an average Cube due to how slow/unreliable it will be. I would put it in or near the top 10 for the way my group Cubes but our approach is *way* different than the norm.
I was surprised to see so many high votes for Tamiyo although she didn't make the list - she's one of those good-but-never-great Planeswalkers who I didn't feel too bad about cutting.
I can't believe JtMS got a no-vote, but hey.
I'm sad Crystal Shard didn't make it.
True-Name Nemesis didn't suffer that much from not being ranked by a fairly large minority of voters. If we counted only those who voted for it, I guess it would've placed 6-7th or so, right?
Phyrexian Metamorph not making it would have been a surprise with what a good P1P1 that guy is.
Force of Will was very much overranked at #13 in 2010 IMO.
You didn't mention Time Spiral's collapse down the rankings to #19 from #9. That also is not a great surprise IMO, as good as it is.
Timetwister: the only P9 not to even crack top 20. Amazing card, but not that kind of gal. Totally fine in unpowered.
I voted Vedalken Shackles low as a product of our drafting process. That said, 10th seems a little high to me. Maybe I'm just not used to drafting it with Islands and not much else.
Bribery dropping so far is a weird one, since the Eldrazi and other Big Unplayable Nonsense™ came very much after the last rankings we did - and a lot more people are dabbling in super ramp and the likes since around two years ago. Maybe Bribery has been oppressive to those decks and has been removed for that? Is it because it is a little less useful against aggro, and that deck has improved so much in the last four years? Or is it just competition in blue? I'm looking at bringing it back, if anything.
I think Meloku is a little outdated. I don't really see it a lot any more. I think the curve of ridiculous blue spells has really lowered since Kamigawa. I don't think she should be on the list. At 5 mana she's really outclassed by the likes of Bribery, Treachery, Tamiyo, Jace Memory Adept, and so on and so on.
I was surprised to see so many high votes for Tamiyo although she didn't make the list - she's one of those good-but-never-great Planeswalkers who I didn't feel too bad about cutting.
Really? I feel the opposite. She's always great. If you aren't getting beat down too hard, she absolutely dominates. If you're staring down a lot of pressure, she can dig for what you need. And every situation in between could use a Tamiyo; slow down an aggressive board, lock up their much needed splash mana, clear out a blocker, etc etc.... I could never fathom nor entertain the notion of not having her in a regular cube.
I find the absence of Shelldock Isle almost criminal, well I guess the appreciation for the card just isn't as widespread as I thought.
It used to be appreciated and has really fallen out of favor. I just cut it from my cube after I was sick of hearing people sigh and have to put 3 cards they would have liked to draw onto the bottom of their library. Or have to put a good card under the isle and never use it. There are tons of reasons this card can be a complete miss in your deck and only a few reasons why you would want it. Cheating bigger spells into play and instant speed on cards that usually don't have it but that is about it. A few years ago the card might have made the top 20 blue cards of all time for cube but at this point I wouldn't even put it in the top 50.
Full disclosure: I think Shelldock Isle is one of the best 10 blue cards in the cube.
Are these really good reasons to not like Shelldock Isle? It's completely random whether you hit 3 great cards or 3 horrible cards, Shelldock Isle can help you just as much as it can hurt you in bottoming cards. It's like saying Impulse is horrible because you bottom the cards.
You can specifically put cards there via Brainstorm, Scroll Rack (if you play it) Ponder, Preordain, and lots of other other card manipulation to ensure you get something sweet. I'd say not only is the card great for cheating a bigger spell into play and giving things instant speed, but your opponent always has to worry about tricks you may or may not have.
It also combos very well with bounce and it's an absolute beating with Upheaval.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: The entire reason we started playing Shelldock Isle is because I watched a channelfireball cube video where the pro talked about Shelldock Isle being the most criminally underdrafted card in the cube, and he proceeded to destroy with it. We put it in and have never looked back.
The better the cube gets, the better Shelldock Isle gets, so maybe I'm waxing philosophic on a card that is perfect in my cube, but the ChannelFireball pro said that during a 720 draft! (I'm not sure whether it was powered or unpowered).
I'd definitely recommend testing it again if you guys haven't recently.
The big difference between Impulse and Shelldock Isle is that with Impulse I get the best card out of the top four now and not at some random time in the future if ever.
The big difference between Impulse and Shelldock Isle is that with Impulse I get the best card out of the top four now and not at some random time in the future if ever.
While that may be true, I'm saying that just because you bottom three cards you might have liked to draw isn't a good reason to think Shelldock Isle is subpar.
EDIT: Also, not to go down a giant rabbit hole, but I think Shelldock Isle is far superior to Impulse, if we want to talk about that for a bit.
Impulse is incredibly mana inefficient compared to an active Shelldock Isle. Two mana to cast the impulse + the mana used to cast the spell you're going for, compared to an effective two mana from tapping an Island + Shelldock Isle.
Shelldock Isle allows you to give creatures flash. I mentioned the last time I cubed with Shelldock, I had an instant speed Myr Battlesphere blowout. I can't do that with Impulse.
Shelldock Isle does not take up a spell spot in your deck. I don't know about you, but we have 5+ cuttable cards every single time we draft. Shelldock Isle makes it so I don't need to cut another spell to play Impulse in my deck.
I've impulsed and taken a Shelldock Isle but never put Impulse under one. I don't know what that says about how I view the cards, but it's probably a positive for Shelldock.
I think one of the main arguments that I think doesn't hold a lot of weight against Shelldock is that it takes a lot of time to come online. In our cube, Shelldock Isle is active more games than it is not, although we run lots of Draw 7s and Moxes help blue decks accelerate into draw spells and stabilization. Even if you never get the time to cast the spell, it's not like the spell chilled out in your hand costing you a card. You literally have a free spell waiting to take over the game and it only takes 13 draws (8 draws with Advantageous Proclamation) to get there. Sounds like a lot, but when you factor in all the draw blue has access to, it's really not that uncommon.
Bribery dropping so far is a weird one, since the Eldrazi and other Big Unplayable Nonsense™ came very much after the last rankings we did - and a lot more people are dabbling in super ramp and the likes since around two years ago. Maybe Bribery has been oppressive to those decks and has been removed for that? Is it because it is a little less useful against aggro, and that deck has improved so much in the last four years? Or is it just competition in blue? I'm looking at bringing it back, if anything.
For us its because Bribery isn't great against aggro (its fairly poor actually, barring getting Greater Gargadon or something). More generally curves just keep going down over time. Like, significantly down. But I didn't vote for Treachery or Control Magic either. I can't remember if I voted for Shackles and Sower but I think those are easily the best ones.
Tamiyo not being on this list makes me very sad. It's definitely one of the most underrated planeswalkers in Cube. I'd personally rank her as #6 (behind Jace, Elspeth K-E, Liliana, Karn and Gideon). Shutting down your opponent's biggest threat indefinitely is quite a strong ability. Kiora has been awesome in Cube for that exact reason and Tamiyo doesn't even allow an attack. It can also work really well by shutting down problem lands/artifacts that tap. Sometimes ramping it out on T-4 and shutting down a land does well. I ranked her #5 on my blue list and from my experience in our powered 540 it's totally justified.
Bribery: This one has definitely gotten worse over the last five years. We got many strong cheap creatures, so decks have gotten a bit faster and focused aggro decks have gotten more powerful and more plentiful. Getting an aggressive 4-drop as your best creature from a Bribery is not what you want to get for 3UU when facing down vicious beats. On the other hand, we got many planeswalkers that can (also) function as threats. I see more and more control decks who use several planeswalkers as win conditions. This means that Bribery only gets a measly utility creature when playing against those decks.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: This is the best Icy Manipulator. No further costs after the initial 3UU, card draw when needed and the threat of a powerful ultimate. If you don't have a direct removal for her, you really have to overextent in order to prevent her ultimate.
Shelldock Isle: I really like this card. For a very small cost (etb tapped, dying to some nonbasic hate, having to wait a bit), you get a powerful effect. Card selection, one free card, instant speed and a mana discount (which can be quite huge). Decks that play it can use it most games, since they run additional card draw and cards to slow down the game, so going down to 20 cards won't be a huge problem. That said, blue is stacked with powerful cards and while it is a card that I am happy to pick up later for my blue deck, it is usually not a card that I want to first pick at the start of the draft.
Even against aggro, Bribery for the choice of a) the best four drop in my opponent's deck or b) the utility effect that I need at a given time, plus seeing my opponent's entire library, is a fine deal for five mana. In the case I pick an aggressive four drop and trade with another one, that's life saved, a creature killed, and another finisher stripped from the opposing deck, as well as all the information garnered from looking through it. And that's its worst case scenario. I don't even play it, but to say it is bad against aggro is wrong.
And that's its worst case scenario. I don't even play it, but to say it is bad against aggro is wrong.
Its not bad against aggro. But alternative cards you could run in its place have gotten way better and more than a couple have surpassed Bribery while Bribery itself has simultaneously gotten weaker to the extent that it isn't "bad" against aggro but it might not always be enough either.
I board out Bribery against aggro. It's not necessarily bad against aggro, but there is always something better in my sideboard.
Bribery is a stone-cold staple in my cube though. We run 4 giant green fatties, two Eldrazi, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere, Sundering Titan, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind, all in a 360 powered shell.
I've found that there is waaaay too much talk of Bribery's WCS compared to how often it just wins you the game. Meloku is a five drop as well, and sometimes it dies without doing much. Not that I'm complaining about its ranking. This is blue, so being in the top 20 makes you nearly a top five card in other colors.
I was surprised to see so many high votes for Tamiyo although she didn't make the list - she's one of those good-but-never-great Planeswalkers who I didn't feel too bad about cutting.
I can't believe JtMS got a no-vote, but hey.
I'm sad Crystal Shard didn't make it.
True-Name Nemesis didn't suffer that much from not being ranked by a fairly large minority of voters. If we counted only those who voted for it, I guess it would've placed 6-7th or so, right?
Phyrexian Metamorph not making it would have been a surprise with what a good P1P1 that guy is.
Force of Will was very much overranked at #13 in 2010 IMO.
You didn't mention Time Spiral's collapse down the rankings to #19 from #9. That also is not a great surprise IMO, as good as it is.
Timetwister: the only P9 not to even crack top 20. Amazing card, but not that kind of gal. Totally fine in unpowered.
I voted Vedalken Shackles low as a product of our drafting process. That said, 10th seems a little high to me. Maybe I'm just not used to drafting it with Islands and not much else.
Bribery dropping so far is a weird one, since the Eldrazi and other Big Unplayable Nonsense™ came very much after the last rankings we did - and a lot more people are dabbling in super ramp and the likes since around two years ago. Maybe Bribery has been oppressive to those decks and has been removed for that? Is it because it is a little less useful against aggro, and that deck has improved so much in the last four years? Or is it just competition in blue? I'm looking at bringing it back, if anything.
I wanted to swoop in and address some of these, for informational purposes, but also because it looked fun:
* JTMS got one no-vote, but Ancestral Recall and Time Walk each received FOUR no-votes.
* Using only the composite from the people who voted for True-Name Nemesis would've given it an 11.9 rating. That would've let it leapfrog Snapcaster Mage for #8.
* Force of Will seems to have falling out of serious favor in the Cube. It makes sense why. You've gotta be pretty strong into Blue for it to be the 0cc beast that it is, and on top of that -- chances are you don't wanna pitch a Blue card to cast it for 0. That makes sense.
* You're right, I failed to mention Time Spiral's own fall from grace, and I do think that a lot of MTGers are stuck in the "Timetwister is P9 tho! #lolz" mode of thinking, when in fact I think Time Spiral is much better for the Cube. Being able to untap 6 lands after casting it and getting 7 cards off of it is HUGE.
* I don't know why, but I tend to undervalue Shackles myself. And it always takes one person playing it against you to remind you just how awesome it is. I was just reminded of this a couple of weeks ago when my buddy wrecked shop with it.
* As I've recently enabled my Cube to support artifact.dec and Ramp/Tooth, it would seem that Bribery would move up the food chain a bit as an answer against those two. That's my thought and that's my hope as we move forward.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Shelldock Isle can be awesome. It can also be a nonbasic do-nothing Island that comes into play tapped. The faster the cube is, and the better aggro is, the worse Shelldock Isle gets. I think it's a fine card, but I certainly don't think it's a top 20 contender. I think it's currently the worst blue card I have in the cube, and I'm only running it to help the super-ramp package. I think it's absence from the top 20 blue cards in the entire cube is completely appropriate.
A card whose WCS is a come into play tapped blue land should be listed as a point in the cards favor, considering that makes it one of the best WCS' in cube.
Not even saying you are wrong about the card, just that the WCS is a bad talking point if you are arguing against it.
I don't know, coming into play tapped is a pretty significant drawback. If it doesn't do anything else besides come into play tapped over the course of the game, that's a pretty terrible WCS.
A card whose WCS is a come into play tapped blue land should be listed as a point in the cards favor, considering that makes it one of the best WCS' in cube.
Not even saying you are wrong about the card, just that the WCS is a bad talking point if you are arguing against it.
but if you consider that you could have had a card that could actually do something (even in it's WCS) with that draft pick, that makes Shelldock Isle a pretty bad first pick.
Honestly, talking about Shelldock Isle as a potential P1P1 is just silly. I can't imagine how abysmal my opening pack would have to be in order for me to take a Shelldock Isle with my very first pick.
edit: and anyway, the post that got us started talking about Shelldock Isle rated it as the 7th strongest blue card. I know we aren't supposed to judge rankings of other players but...that just ain't right. I really love Shelldock Isle, but there is NO WAY i would EVER take it P1P1.
These are final and now open for group discussion.
2 Time Walk - 16.6
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor - 16.3
4 Mana Drain - 13.8
5 Tinker - 13.5
6 Treachery - 12.8
7 Upheaval - 12.3
8 Snapcaster Mage - 10.7
9 True-Name Nemesis - 8.5
10 Vedalken Shackles - 8.2
11 Vendilion Clique - 8.0
12 Phyrexian Metamorph - 6.4
13 Control Magic - 4.9
14 Fact or Fiction - 4.7
15 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror - 4.2
16 Venser, Shaper Savant - 4.0
17 Glen Elendra Archmage - 3.9
18 Opposition - 3.6
19 Time Spiral - 3.3
20 Bribery - 3.2
We had 32 voters! Thank you to everyone for taking time to vote!
willdice, wtwlf123, preppypoof, Phantizle, cuttups, trogdoor, DerBK, KBH, Colby Cube, TheRift88, Ectazon, hoodwink, hopefulhawkeye, SpikeRogue, Ennex, pillar15, sandino, Fredo, Goodking, A. Smith, Metamind, rantipole, Star Slayer, MrConfusion, kingneb, Champman, Agest, toomaxz, Torggo, calibretto, Hicham, pablosleepy
Tendencies, Useless Ramblings & Facts
*Just Missed: Consecrated Sphinx (3.1), Cryptic Command (2.6) & Sower of Temptation (2.4)
*Repeat Champ: After a 19.9 in 2009 and a perfect 20.0 in 2010, Ancestral Recall three-peats as the #1, but this time with a fight.
*Repeat #2: After a 18.2 in 2009 and an 18.1 in 2010, Time Walk gave Ancestral Recall a run in 2014, stealing five #1 votes.
*Big Hitter: ZERO CARDS received a vote from everyone. Jace the Mind Sculptor was the closest, only missing 1 vote. Snapcaster Mage and Treachery each missed two votes.
*Anomaly: True-Name Nemesis cracks the Top 10 despite receiving 16 votes (half) of 9 or less, including 9 no-votes.
*Bi-Polar Award: Mana Drain had thirteen votes of 18, but also had 5 no-votes.
*Rookies: Snapcaster Mage (#8), True-Name Nemesis (#9), Vendilion Clique (#11), Phyrexian Metamorph (#12), Venser, Shaper Savant (#16), Glen Elendra Archamge (#17) and Opposition (#18) are all newcomers to Blue's Top 20 (A 4-year layoff will do that!)
*Interesting: 6 of the 7 Rookies are newly-printed creatures. The 7th is an enchantment that's been in print since 1999.
*Fall From Grace: Bribery (#6 in 2010) fell the most while maintaining a Top 20 spot. Gifts Ungiven (#11) and Force of Will (#13) fell completely out of the rankings.
*Consistency Award: Treachery, Tinker and Upheaval are always grouped together. In 2009, they ranked #4, #6, #7, in 2010 that changed to #4, #5, #9 and in 2014 they ran #5, #6, #7.
*Big Mover: Obviously, Snapcaster Mage moving from unranked to #8. But also note, Jace the Mind Sculptor moving from #12 in 2010 to #3 in 2014. I believe this is due to the collective "not knowing what we had", as Worldwake had just recently been released at the time the PRs took place.
*72 different cards received votes
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
On a side note, you're missing the end of the "Big Mover" sentence. Thanks for compiling the list!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Control Magic also had a frightening yet similar ride. After 19 voters, it had a 19 (??) and 11 (ELEVEN?!) no-votes. Definitely on the brink. The final 13 voters brought that thing it's ranking: 9, 8, 1, 7, 1, 13, 12, 6, 4, 14, 2, 9, 7.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
http://cubetutor.playworks.cloudbees.net/viewcube/57
It used to be appreciated and has really fallen out of favor. I just cut it from my cube after I was sick of hearing people sigh and have to put 3 cards they would have liked to draw onto the bottom of their library. Or have to put a good card under the isle and never use it. There are tons of reasons this card can be a complete miss in your deck and only a few reasons why you would want it. Cheating bigger spells into play and instant speed on cards that usually don't have it but that is about it. A few years ago the card might have made the top 20 blue cards of all time for cube but at this point I wouldn't even put it in the top 50.
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I don't personally think it is in the top 20 for an average Cube due to how slow/unreliable it will be. I would put it in or near the top 10 for the way my group Cubes but our approach is *way* different than the norm.
I was surprised to see so many high votes for Tamiyo although she didn't make the list - she's one of those good-but-never-great Planeswalkers who I didn't feel too bad about cutting.
I can't believe JtMS got a no-vote, but hey.
I'm sad Crystal Shard didn't make it.
True-Name Nemesis didn't suffer that much from not being ranked by a fairly large minority of voters. If we counted only those who voted for it, I guess it would've placed 6-7th or so, right?
Phyrexian Metamorph not making it would have been a surprise with what a good P1P1 that guy is.
Force of Will was very much overranked at #13 in 2010 IMO.
You didn't mention Time Spiral's collapse down the rankings to #19 from #9. That also is not a great surprise IMO, as good as it is.
Timetwister: the only P9 not to even crack top 20. Amazing card, but not that kind of gal. Totally fine in unpowered.
I voted Vedalken Shackles low as a product of our drafting process. That said, 10th seems a little high to me. Maybe I'm just not used to drafting it with Islands and not much else.
Bribery dropping so far is a weird one, since the Eldrazi and other Big Unplayable Nonsense™ came very much after the last rankings we did - and a lot more people are dabbling in super ramp and the likes since around two years ago. Maybe Bribery has been oppressive to those decks and has been removed for that? Is it because it is a little less useful against aggro, and that deck has improved so much in the last four years? Or is it just competition in blue? I'm looking at bringing it back, if anything.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Really? I feel the opposite. She's always great. If you aren't getting beat down too hard, she absolutely dominates. If you're staring down a lot of pressure, she can dig for what you need. And every situation in between could use a Tamiyo; slow down an aggressive board, lock up their much needed splash mana, clear out a blocker, etc etc.... I could never fathom nor entertain the notion of not having her in a regular cube.
Full disclosure: I think Shelldock Isle is one of the best 10 blue cards in the cube.
Are these really good reasons to not like Shelldock Isle? It's completely random whether you hit 3 great cards or 3 horrible cards, Shelldock Isle can help you just as much as it can hurt you in bottoming cards. It's like saying Impulse is horrible because you bottom the cards.
You can specifically put cards there via Brainstorm, Scroll Rack (if you play it) Ponder, Preordain, and lots of other other card manipulation to ensure you get something sweet. I'd say not only is the card great for cheating a bigger spell into play and giving things instant speed, but your opponent always has to worry about tricks you may or may not have.
It also combos very well with bounce and it's an absolute beating with Upheaval.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: The entire reason we started playing Shelldock Isle is because I watched a channelfireball cube video where the pro talked about Shelldock Isle being the most criminally underdrafted card in the cube, and he proceeded to destroy with it. We put it in and have never looked back.
The better the cube gets, the better Shelldock Isle gets, so maybe I'm waxing philosophic on a card that is perfect in my cube, but the ChannelFireball pro said that during a 720 draft! (I'm not sure whether it was powered or unpowered).
I'd definitely recommend testing it again if you guys haven't recently.
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While that may be true, I'm saying that just because you bottom three cards you might have liked to draw isn't a good reason to think Shelldock Isle is subpar.
Impulse is incredibly mana inefficient compared to an active Shelldock Isle. Two mana to cast the impulse + the mana used to cast the spell you're going for, compared to an effective two mana from tapping an Island + Shelldock Isle.
Shelldock Isle allows you to give creatures flash. I mentioned the last time I cubed with Shelldock, I had an instant speed Myr Battlesphere blowout. I can't do that with Impulse.
Shelldock Isle does not take up a spell spot in your deck. I don't know about you, but we have 5+ cuttable cards every single time we draft. Shelldock Isle makes it so I don't need to cut another spell to play Impulse in my deck.
I've impulsed and taken a Shelldock Isle but never put Impulse under one. I don't know what that says about how I view the cards, but it's probably a positive for Shelldock.
I think one of the main arguments that I think doesn't hold a lot of weight against Shelldock is that it takes a lot of time to come online. In our cube, Shelldock Isle is active more games than it is not, although we run lots of Draw 7s and Moxes help blue decks accelerate into draw spells and stabilization. Even if you never get the time to cast the spell, it's not like the spell chilled out in your hand costing you a card. You literally have a free spell waiting to take over the game and it only takes 13 draws (8 draws with Advantageous Proclamation) to get there. Sounds like a lot, but when you factor in all the draw blue has access to, it's really not that uncommon.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
For us its because Bribery isn't great against aggro (its fairly poor actually, barring getting Greater Gargadon or something). More generally curves just keep going down over time. Like, significantly down. But I didn't vote for Treachery or Control Magic either. I can't remember if I voted for Shackles and Sower but I think those are easily the best ones.
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Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: This is the best Icy Manipulator. No further costs after the initial 3UU, card draw when needed and the threat of a powerful ultimate. If you don't have a direct removal for her, you really have to overextent in order to prevent her ultimate.
Shelldock Isle: I really like this card. For a very small cost (etb tapped, dying to some nonbasic hate, having to wait a bit), you get a powerful effect. Card selection, one free card, instant speed and a mana discount (which can be quite huge). Decks that play it can use it most games, since they run additional card draw and cards to slow down the game, so going down to 20 cards won't be a huge problem. That said, blue is stacked with powerful cards and while it is a card that I am happy to pick up later for my blue deck, it is usually not a card that I want to first pick at the start of the draft.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Its not bad against aggro. But alternative cards you could run in its place have gotten way better and more than a couple have surpassed Bribery while Bribery itself has simultaneously gotten weaker to the extent that it isn't "bad" against aggro but it might not always be enough either.
Bribery is a stone-cold staple in my cube though. We run 4 giant green fatties, two Eldrazi, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere, Sundering Titan, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind, all in a 360 powered shell.
So it's got its place for sure.
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I wanted to swoop in and address some of these, for informational purposes, but also because it looked fun:
* JTMS got one no-vote, but Ancestral Recall and Time Walk each received FOUR no-votes.
* Using only the composite from the people who voted for True-Name Nemesis would've given it an 11.9 rating. That would've let it leapfrog Snapcaster Mage for #8.
* Force of Will seems to have falling out of serious favor in the Cube. It makes sense why. You've gotta be pretty strong into Blue for it to be the 0cc beast that it is, and on top of that -- chances are you don't wanna pitch a Blue card to cast it for 0. That makes sense.
* You're right, I failed to mention Time Spiral's own fall from grace, and I do think that a lot of MTGers are stuck in the "Timetwister is P9 tho! #lolz" mode of thinking, when in fact I think Time Spiral is much better for the Cube. Being able to untap 6 lands after casting it and getting 7 cards off of it is HUGE.
* I don't know why, but I tend to undervalue Shackles myself. And it always takes one person playing it against you to remind you just how awesome it is. I was just reminded of this a couple of weeks ago when my buddy wrecked shop with it.
* As I've recently enabled my Cube to support artifact.dec and Ramp/Tooth, it would seem that Bribery would move up the food chain a bit as an answer against those two. That's my thought and that's my hope as we move forward.
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Not even saying you are wrong about the card, just that the WCS is a bad talking point if you are arguing against it.
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but if you consider that you could have had a card that could actually do something (even in it's WCS) with that draft pick, that makes Shelldock Isle a pretty bad first pick.
Honestly, talking about Shelldock Isle as a potential P1P1 is just silly. I can't imagine how abysmal my opening pack would have to be in order for me to take a Shelldock Isle with my very first pick.
edit: and anyway, the post that got us started talking about Shelldock Isle rated it as the 7th strongest blue card. I know we aren't supposed to judge rankings of other players but...that just ain't right. I really love Shelldock Isle, but there is NO WAY i would EVER take it P1P1.