So I recently decided that I wanted to start getting myself a cube together in case my friend that I cube with ever moves or I decide to move and I don't have a cube to play with, or for when he's unavailable, but I wouldn't mind some peoples opinions on something.
So I'll be completely basing my cube off my friends, I've put a fair amount of work into his cube and I'm a fan of it. It's a standard unpowered cube that supports as many archetypes and "build around me" cards as possible. My question, though:
His cube is 630 cards. Which is great, because you can support up to 8-person sealed and you can play pretty much every single card you want to play. But it's rather on the large side. I feel as if there's at least about, say, 10-15 cards that are really just in there for bloat. Cards such as Genesis, Parallax Wave, Student of Warfare, Ember Hauler, etc. But, on that token, if I do cut down to 530 cards, I'm also having to cut a fair amount of cards that aren't in there for bloat. So I've come up with a few options.
530 cards would be my target. That puts me at being able to support 6-person sealed, 12 person draft. I very rarely even get to cube with 8 people around here, so that's more than enough.
A) Cut down to 530 and leave it. The problem I have here, is that it will become increasingly difficult to actually make pulls when new cards come out without making certain archetypes much weaker.
B) Cut down to 530 and slowly build up - Allow myself 1 card add per color every time a new set comes out until I reach a certain maximum.
C) Leave it as is and just replace cards are they come out, as we've been doing with Jordan's cube for awhile now.
As I said, it's a standard unpowered cube. We also don't run "cube power" cards such as Library of Alexandria, Sol Ring, Mana Vault. I will probably add Mind Twist and possibly Hymn to Tourach to that list. Me and Jordan have been discussing it recently. I'm always always always open for discussion on cube card changes, so if you have opinions on anything based off the cube I love to discuss it.
Bloat is kind of a relative and subjective term. I run a 630 unpowered and don't feel there's any bloat at all, minus maybe a couple filler role players like Diabolic Servitude.
Genesis, Parallax Wave, and Student of Warfare are all pretty solid though. Especially Parallax Wave, that card does all kinds of good stuff in a variety of decks.
Well, our cube supports full-on reanimator archetype, so Servitude is a staple there.
I've always felt Genesis is too slow. In general, you'd rather be throwing down a Thragtusk on turn 4 then a Genesis in hopes it hits the Graveyard. Don't take me wrong, I'm not saying any of these cards are bad by any means, but just that there's better options. Dunno. I've been trying to convince myself to cut cards and on the same token, trying to convince myself not too. Fairly torn.
Out of curiosity, you seem to not be running any lands in your cube. How come?
I think 540 is the sweet spot for me. Big enough that we get plenty of variance out of our drafts but still very hard to make cuts for new cards. Some people LIKE knowing every card in their drafts, I like variance, so that's the guide I think you should use.
Similar to that, with a larger Cube you can support more archetype/build-around that require a few cards to be good. I'm not talking storm or anything terrible like that but maybe things like super-ramp for Eldrazi, Sneak Attack/Show & Tell, Wildfire, Upheaval, Moat, Purphoros, Tinker, Tezzeret/artifact deck, etc. Some of these cards are staples in smaller Cubes (like Tinker) but since my Cube for example is 540 we can run a card like Sphinx of the Steel Wind as a sweet target for both Tinker & reanimate decks. I'd also like to chime in that if your goal is 530 then you should run 540. This way if you do a 6-man draft for example you'll be using exactly 50% of the total cards. You can also support 12 drafters if for some reason that ever happens. I started at 500 for a while then moved to 540 which allowed room for a surprising number of sweet cards that didn't make 500.
I wouldn't consider Student of Warfare "bloat" by any stretch. I'd play that creature at every cube size.
For me, the sweet spot has been 450, where I get to include the majority of the bomb staples I want to cube with and just the right amount of archetype support cards to have the decktypes I want to play coexist with them. 540 felt big to me when I cubed that size, and I felt like I was including too much filler for my own taste. But it also opened up a lot of space to include some fun and interesting cards that are too hard to find room for in the smaller cube sizes, so it has that bonus attached to it.
I have gone up to 600 cards two years ago and I don't feel that my list runs many fillers or is underpowered. The last five years gave us many great cube cards, so larger cubes are possible without a huge drop in power.
That said, I sometimes wonder if a slightly smaller list might be better. It would certainly make a few archetypes more consistent. However, I consider 450-600 to be the best range of cube sizes. While my cube is certainly on the larger side, it doesn't feel too large. I wouldn't go below 540 card anyway, since we usually draft twice with six players when we meet and that is the smallest size where we can start a second draft right away without having to shuffle cards from the first draft back in.
I used to run 550, cut it to 500, its slowly creeping back up. I really like 500 cards, it allows some different strategies and experimenting with different cards.
You will have fun with a large cube as well, but take into account a larger cube has more upkeep. The bottom tier changes between sets a lot more often than the rest of the cards, as well as requiring more sleeves, more space, more time to shuffle etc.
I'm a fan of variance. This is why my cube is huge. Also, it gives certain archetypes a chance to shine and makes the overall cube process more fulfilling.
So I'll be completely basing my cube off my friends, I've put a fair amount of work into his cube and I'm a fan of it. It's a standard unpowered cube that supports as many archetypes and "build around me" cards as possible. My question, though:
His cube is 630 cards. Which is great, because you can support up to 8-person sealed and you can play pretty much every single card you want to play. But it's rather on the large side. I feel as if there's at least about, say, 10-15 cards that are really just in there for bloat. Cards such as Genesis, Parallax Wave, Student of Warfare, Ember Hauler, etc. But, on that token, if I do cut down to 530 cards, I'm also having to cut a fair amount of cards that aren't in there for bloat. So I've come up with a few options.
530 cards would be my target. That puts me at being able to support 6-person sealed, 12 person draft. I very rarely even get to cube with 8 people around here, so that's more than enough.
A) Cut down to 530 and leave it. The problem I have here, is that it will become increasingly difficult to actually make pulls when new cards come out without making certain archetypes much weaker.
B) Cut down to 530 and slowly build up - Allow myself 1 card add per color every time a new set comes out until I reach a certain maximum.
C) Leave it as is and just replace cards are they come out, as we've been doing with Jordan's cube for awhile now.
Here's a link to our cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/12040 (my link, which is the one I'll update)
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/956 (Jordan's cube, which is what mine is currently a copy/paste of)
As I said, it's a standard unpowered cube. We also don't run "cube power" cards such as Library of Alexandria, Sol Ring, Mana Vault. I will probably add Mind Twist and possibly Hymn to Tourach to that list. Me and Jordan have been discussing it recently. I'm always always always open for discussion on cube card changes, so if you have opinions on anything based off the cube I love to discuss it.
Genesis, Parallax Wave, and Student of Warfare are all pretty solid though. Especially Parallax Wave, that card does all kinds of good stuff in a variety of decks.
I've always felt Genesis is too slow. In general, you'd rather be throwing down a Thragtusk on turn 4 then a Genesis in hopes it hits the Graveyard. Don't take me wrong, I'm not saying any of these cards are bad by any means, but just that there's better options. Dunno. I've been trying to convince myself to cut cards and on the same token, trying to convince myself not too. Fairly torn.
Out of curiosity, you seem to not be running any lands in your cube. How come?
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
For me, the sweet spot has been 450, where I get to include the majority of the bomb staples I want to cube with and just the right amount of archetype support cards to have the decktypes I want to play coexist with them. 540 felt big to me when I cubed that size, and I felt like I was including too much filler for my own taste. But it also opened up a lot of space to include some fun and interesting cards that are too hard to find room for in the smaller cube sizes, so it has that bonus attached to it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That said, I sometimes wonder if a slightly smaller list might be better. It would certainly make a few archetypes more consistent. However, I consider 450-600 to be the best range of cube sizes. While my cube is certainly on the larger side, it doesn't feel too large. I wouldn't go below 540 card anyway, since we usually draft twice with six players when we meet and that is the smallest size where we can start a second draft right away without having to shuffle cards from the first draft back in.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG