I'm gonna try him. Izzet is a guild full of playable cards that I like having in my deck and severely lacking in cards that make me want to move into Izzet. I wish he cost 4, but it's still a really neat card.
Marvelous, just what I wanted for Izzet! Looks like Prophetic Bolt is out for him.
Works wonders with top of the deck manipulation. This is one instance where putting Sensei's Top on top every turn is the best idea
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The GameCube, a 500 cube with a medium power level and a focus on fun and fringe playables rather than immediately shutting your opponent down with the best cards ever printed.
Modem Masters, a 500 cube that tries to capture the essence of a Modern Masters set draft. 3 of each common, 2 of each uncommon, 1 of each rare, few mythics. Includes minor changes for balance reasons to give certain archetypes the tools they need to succeed.
Izzet isn't really a color combo known for board presence, so he's almost never going to get turned on. He's good, but without turning on his devotion reliably, I doubt he's good enough to make the cut.
I'm not really fond of him. Barring any acceleration, which isn't common in Izzet, the card comes down on turn 5 and that's your turn 5.
No board impact or impact of any sort until the draw step of your 6th turn seems pretty bad to me.
I imagine his animation will be in only the rarest of circumstances so I'm evaluating him as if he doesn't have a potential body.
It seems like the card isn't worth it until around 3 activations, but I don't think it's wise to assume the game would last that long.
Granted, the effect is very powerful and seems insane if accelerated out early so I imagine his stock rises in a powered cube environment but I'll be skipping on him in my unpowered cube.
Had very similar thoughts as commoner regarding it being better in powered cube vs unpoewred.
Extremly powerful when accelerated out, but lower impact late in the game.
There are better cards to manavault/lotus into, but almost all of those can be answered easier.
If the deck is built properly, it's pretty hard to lose the game after a few turns of the god being played.
Long/grindy matchups with lots of answers IEcontrol mirrors, this card seems very powerful (fantastic sideboard card minimum).
Going to test, have high hopes, but wouldn't be extremely surprised if the value it generated was too slow.
At 5 mana, a lightning bolt two out of every 3 turns dues not cut it for me. You wont get enough devotion too.
I think I'll play Prophetic bolt over this, which I removed also.
Points in favor of Keranos:
- much harder to neutralize once it's on board
- does not damage its controller
- if top card is a spell, gives a free Lightning Bolt (to be cast immediately) instead of a random card, which seems slightly better on average (the extra card drawn by Demon could be a useless land, after all)
Point against Keranos:
- harder to cast (as in, playable in fewer decks)
- zero board impact the turn it ETB's
- will never or almost never be a creature
- gives the opponent free information
Overall, I think this makes Keranos a worse card than Bloodgift Demon, which itself is not good enough for most 450 Cubes, but is definitely playable in larger ones.
I rate Keranos as about the 7th best Izzet card overall, after (in no particular order) Ral Zarek, Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, Fire//Ice, Prophetic Bolt, Steam Augury. He also does not do anything particularly different from any of the other choices (which basically draw cards, burn things, or do both), so that's not a reason to include him in my opinion.
It's sometimes better than Honden of Seeing Winds, when you really need to draw a Bolt. But for the most part, I don't think the indestructibility and the random card = bolt thing is worth turning it into a multicolored permanent. And Honden isn't exactly a cube staple.
To me this feels on the same power level of Staff of Nin. It was a funny card to try and sure we can can all imagine a scenerio where it takes over but I doubt this guy will make the top ten in my guild. It seems like a trap card. You cast it and get all excited and the opponent just shrugs and ignores it and beats you in the face with something useful.
He is not an instant or sorcery, nor does he care about them. He is not efficient. He cares about permanents, does not effect the board, or give immediate card value. I have no idea what izzet deck I would draft where I wouldn't cut this guy. In most scenarios I would rather have another burn or counter spell. It is no where close to prophetic bolt, and I have cut that.
As a finisher why not just draft stormbreath dragon, or Meluko? And sure he plays well after wildwire/jokulhaups but so do lots of things that actually wrap up games.
Even on curve you are not getting anything until turn 6, and probably the 5 mana in value only lands by turn 7-8.
I think it needed to draw an extra card per turn, reveal both, and bolt for free when you reveal an instant or sorcery. Too good? Probably not for a 5cc gold card with no immediate board impact. Instead, we got something much worse. I think it's an easy card to pass on.
To me, this feels a lot like Future Sight. If your top card is a land, you can draw a different card. It occasionally gives you extra fuel too.
However, unlike Future Sight, it's two colors and can never give you any advantage the turn it lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I don't think this card is at all like future sight. That card has break me/combo written on it. This card is long term random modest value engine. I have seen people play 4-6 cards from future sight in one turn. This guy would need to cost ~ 3 to make it work.
Oh well 12 gods down and 1-3 are cubeable. I am holding out hopes for Orzhov.
fwiw with scroll rack , sensei's top, jace, sylvan library you can manipulate the top of your library to get a decent amount more value out of this than draw 1.
There's many times that a lightning bolt is worth much more than a random card and times it's worth less. Ordering your draw steps can make this better than draw 1.
Against agro this card isn't "good", but it is much better than a phryexian arena or a future sight equivalent. You are bolting more than you aren't , and against most of those decks free bolt is >> random card.
against control or midrange, the bolt is on average < random card, but the indestructibility is MUCH more relevant, and would happily trade some value generated for a virtual guarnteed powerful engine throughout the entire game (barring Oring/Dsphere).
It's also an extremly powerful long turn win condition in a deck with a ton of answers. If you build your deck to be end game light, but a variety of answers to all the permanants found in cube. Just bolting to the face every other turn will win the game eventually.
I'm not in love with the card, but I think izzet is the weakest guild and think theres a high enough chance this is better than prophetic bolt to test.
Currently running izzet charm/Ral zarek/Electrolyze/Prophetic bolt. Ral zarek is the only card I see as uncuttable... And am a big fan of izzet charm.
Our resident Izzet drafter said he prefers proph bolt over this guy in all scenarios. Given the other gods, I'll be happy if dont cube any of the gods for flavor/cycle reasons. Also, I dont want too many cards with the keyword indestructible.
But to this thread, I think izzet values instant speed effects. Tapping out on turn five for an effect that comes next turn isnt what our izzet deck wants to do.
If you're running four or less cards per guild, then I think this guy is a pass. But if you're running more than that and you have a little wiggle room for testing, then I think he's worth a shot. I think I'll be trying him out over Steam Augury. I know this guy still qualifies as a punisher effect and we all know that sometimes these effect just don't work out the way you want, but I'm ok with getting either of these effects. And I think that in the instances where I have to get the bolt to win and I flip a land, just adds a bit of extra fun to the game.
Going to try him for sure and I know my group will love him. He's definitely one of those cards that will be able to squeak by on "fun-ness", if not on strict power level.
I know this guy still qualifies as a punisher effect and we all know that sometimes these effect just don't work out the way you want, but I'm ok with getting either of these effects.
Ummm, I'm confused how this is a punisher effect. It is a random effect, but punisher effects generally involve giving your opponent a choice of some kind.
I don't think it's a punisher card, although it's a little inconsistent for sure. I can't see space for Keranos in my Izzet section as it stands. Getting 'only' a draw from its upkeep trigger is a poor return for the investment and it doesn't really seem a good fit in either the U/R aggro decks or Counterburn decks that we like to construct. Which is disappointing, because the foil of this is going to be epic.
Yeah, the art is amazing. And I agree on the power level, just not good enough for a 5-mana MC card. Too bad. Will be fun in multicolor-focused cubes, though, as they probably have low enough power levels to make this guy good, as well as a lot higher devotion counts.
I tend not to like 5-drops that don't have some immediate impact. This card is no exception. If I had room for ~6 Izzet cards, this would likely get tested. No way is it in the top 4.
It's not a true punisher effect in the sense that your opponent gets to choose, but I see it as a punisher effect of sorts because you won't always get the effect you're looking for.
I am considering getting one (as my fifth Izzet card). He saw some play in Modern, which is a pretty fast format, so he might not be too slow for cube. I think the important part is that he is not just a Honden of Seeing Winds variant, but can also deal with creatures and planeswalkers and even win you the game in the long run. As a draw engine, repeatable removal and game-winning threat, he kinda works like the best planeswalkers, but he is far harder to remove than those.
Certainly interesting, and a supporter of the counter-burn archetype. Thoughts?
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Works wonders with top of the deck manipulation. This is one instance where putting Sensei's Top on top every turn is the best idea
Modem Masters, a 500 cube that tries to capture the essence of a Modern Masters set draft. 3 of each common, 2 of each uncommon, 1 of each rare, few mythics. Includes minor changes for balance reasons to give certain archetypes the tools they need to succeed.
No board impact or impact of any sort until the draw step of your 6th turn seems pretty bad to me.
I imagine his animation will be in only the rarest of circumstances so I'm evaluating him as if he doesn't have a potential body.
It seems like the card isn't worth it until around 3 activations, but I don't think it's wise to assume the game would last that long.
Granted, the effect is very powerful and seems insane if accelerated out early so I imagine his stock rises in a powered cube environment but I'll be skipping on him in my unpowered cube.
Extremly powerful when accelerated out, but lower impact late in the game.
There are better cards to manavault/lotus into, but almost all of those can be answered easier.
If the deck is built properly, it's pretty hard to lose the game after a few turns of the god being played.
Long/grindy matchups with lots of answers IEcontrol mirrors, this card seems very powerful (fantastic sideboard card minimum).
Going to test, have high hopes, but wouldn't be extremely surprised if the value it generated was too slow.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
I think I'll play Prophetic bolt over this, which I removed also.
Points in favor of Keranos:
- much harder to neutralize once it's on board
- does not damage its controller
- if top card is a spell, gives a free Lightning Bolt (to be cast immediately) instead of a random card, which seems slightly better on average (the extra card drawn by Demon could be a useless land, after all)
Point against Keranos:
- harder to cast (as in, playable in fewer decks)
- zero board impact the turn it ETB's
- will never or almost never be a creature
- gives the opponent free information
Overall, I think this makes Keranos a worse card than Bloodgift Demon, which itself is not good enough for most 450 Cubes, but is definitely playable in larger ones.
I rate Keranos as about the 7th best Izzet card overall, after (in no particular order) Ral Zarek, Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, Fire//Ice, Prophetic Bolt, Steam Augury. He also does not do anything particularly different from any of the other choices (which basically draw cards, burn things, or do both), so that's not a reason to include him in my opinion.
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
He is not an instant or sorcery, nor does he care about them. He is not efficient. He cares about permanents, does not effect the board, or give immediate card value. I have no idea what izzet deck I would draft where I wouldn't cut this guy. In most scenarios I would rather have another burn or counter spell. It is no where close to prophetic bolt, and I have cut that.
As a finisher why not just draft stormbreath dragon, or Meluko? And sure he plays well after wildwire/jokulhaups but so do lots of things that actually wrap up games.
Even on curve you are not getting anything until turn 6, and probably the 5 mana in value only lands by turn 7-8.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
However, unlike Future Sight, it's two colors and can never give you any advantage the turn it lands.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Oh well 12 gods down and 1-3 are cubeable. I am holding out hopes for Orzhov.
There's many times that a lightning bolt is worth much more than a random card and times it's worth less. Ordering your draw steps can make this better than draw 1.
Against agro this card isn't "good", but it is much better than a phryexian arena or a future sight equivalent. You are bolting more than you aren't , and against most of those decks free bolt is >> random card.
against control or midrange, the bolt is on average < random card, but the indestructibility is MUCH more relevant, and would happily trade some value generated for a virtual guarnteed powerful engine throughout the entire game (barring Oring/Dsphere).
It's also an extremly powerful long turn win condition in a deck with a ton of answers. If you build your deck to be end game light, but a variety of answers to all the permanants found in cube. Just bolting to the face every other turn will win the game eventually.
I'm not in love with the card, but I think izzet is the weakest guild and think theres a high enough chance this is better than prophetic bolt to test.
Currently running izzet charm/Ral zarek/Electrolyze/Prophetic bolt. Ral zarek is the only card I see as uncuttable... And am a big fan of izzet charm.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
But to this thread, I think izzet values instant speed effects. Tapping out on turn five for an effect that comes next turn isnt what our izzet deck wants to do.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Ummm, I'm confused how this is a punisher effect. It is a random effect, but punisher effects generally involve giving your opponent a choice of some kind.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
I am considering getting one (as my fifth Izzet card). He saw some play in Modern, which is a pretty fast format, so he might not be too slow for cube. I think the important part is that he is not just a Honden of Seeing Winds variant, but can also deal with creatures and planeswalkers and even win you the game in the long run. As a draw engine, repeatable removal and game-winning threat, he kinda works like the best planeswalkers, but he is far harder to remove than those.
Also, I am currently running three devotion cards (Master of Waves, Thassa, God of the Sea and Purphoros, God of the Forge) which are all blue or red. Keranos might therefore find his way into decks that can actually turn him on.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG