I just noticed this card, and it's pretty lovely. Seems like a great way to help black aggro, since it is easily splash-able and works great with recurring threats like Gravecrawler or Bloodghast.
(Now I'm realizing again just how good Gravecrawler really is. What a sweet card.)
I didn't include it just yet as I'm having serious problems finding the right cut. Is it blasphemous that I'm actually considering cutting Sinkhole now?
If you support black aggro and black Pox/Stax then I'd never cut Sinkhole. If not, then you probably should still not cut it but it's not as vital. It's 2-mana land destruction! Two mana! That's insane.
I didn't include it just yet as I'm having serious problems finding the right cut. Is it blasphemous that I'm actually considering cutting Sinkhole now?
I didn't include it just yet as I'm having serious problems finding the right cut. Is it blasphemous that I'm actually considering cutting Sinkhole now?
Pox never was good for me. I am leaving in Smallpox. I am also ramping up Black aggro so I left in Sinkhole for now.
Played this card last night in a typical BR aggro shell. It was really good. I cast it 4 times, and it it always made zombies the turn it hit the field, and continued to apply pressure throughout the game. I'm a big fan of this card.
It has been a few months, and sadly I was not able to get much data around here. How is Curse of Shallow Graves performing for you people? Is it seeing play? If so, in what type of decks?
It's seeing a lot of play in my cube because I keep getting passed all the black, and I freaking love Curse of Shallow Graves. It's worked great for me in Dimir tempo and Rakdos aggro decks where I always want to be attacking with something. If you can attack twice with it in play you've more than gotten your card and 3 mana's worth out of it. I have a hard time imagining an aggro or midrange deck with black that I wouldn't want to play this in.
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It has played well for us when it shows up. The two best decks for it so far have been a smokestack denial deck, where the curse gave them a free creature to sac for free each turn, and a few aggro decks, where they got a 2/2 for free each turn. Currently it is not close to the cutting board, but also not a black all-star. It has been solid.
It's crazy in aggro, Stax and tokens decks. I have a very high opinion of this card, which can also help you to rebuild after a sweeper. It has never failed to net me a Zombie on its first turn in play and then you continue to make them by attacking with the existing token. In fact, a turn has never passed (so far) where I have failed to make a Zombie. The one time I got a Wrath against me, I had a Hellrider in hand! It's also unplayable in control, which is actually great for the other black archetypes. Black's other (albeit limited) token generation is universally playable.
It has played well for us when it shows up. The two best decks for it so far have been a smokestack denial deck, where the curse gave them a free creature to sac for free each turn, and a few aggro decks, where they got a 2/2 for free each turn. Currently it is not close to the cutting board, but also not a black all-star. It has been solid.
Ha, it's funny what points of view will do. Flutter and I play the same cube, and I love, love, love this card. It's insanely good IMO in any Bx aggro decks or suicide-black style decks, it gives you a creature the turn you play it almost every time in those decks and ensures you have an attacker pretty much every turn for the rest of the game for free. In pox/stax it's a bitterblossom that doesn't cost you life in a lot of games. While I don't think it's quite all-star status, I think it's above solid and is very, very good and probably in black's top 20-25% for me.
Bottom line though, it's somewhere from solid to very good and you should certainly be playing it. It lives up to the zombieblossom nickname.
It hasn't been doing so well for me. UB tempo decks would rather hold up a counter than tap out for this. B/x Aggro usually has a better 3 and 4 drop to play and by turn 5 they are winning or no longer have good attacks. B/X midrange hasn't been able to consistently attack after casting curse.
It's not bad and it's still making it into some decks - especially token builds where it is pretty good - but it is near the chopping block for me.
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UB tempo decks would rather hold up a counter than tap out for this.
I disagree with this. That's one of the decks where it's been strongest. Playing a single card that generates a threat every turn is ideal for that deck, because it allows you to do exactly that by holding up countermagic in subsequent turns whilst continuing to populate the board. I typically start holding countermagic up at T4 onwards anyway, depending on situation, as that's where the Wraths and planeswalkers start appearing to ruin my way. Bitterblossom and CoSG are both high drafts if I get the U/B tempo urge.
It might be a function of my cube not supporting UB tempo that much. The tempo decks in my cube usually want to resolve one 3drop creature and then protect it with removal, counters, and bounce. Curse doesn't play well with that, but overall your mileage may vary.
In my cube Curse has been kind of win-more. If you are safely attacking every turn after then 3 you are generally winning already.
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Once you produce one threat, it's kinda self sustaining. I don't see it as "win more" although I do agree it plays in practice more like an Anthem effect than a token generation effect.
Whether it's Stax-like strategies or token abuse or just aggression in general, I don't see why this wouldn't be fantastic. It's easily splashed into the other colors.
Unfortunately, steve_man is exactly right. Curse of Shallow Graves is a solid card, but we've just gotten so many good black cards recently that it's gotten edged out of most lists. I do still run it in my low power list, so that counts, I guess. In my powered list it ranged anywhere from bonkers making tons of tokens and taking over the game to meh not making much of anything and not really affecting the board at all.
We've gotten a veritable orgy of riches in the black 3CMC slot in the past year or so including 2 new Lilianas, new Drana and Ruinous Path. It's gotten to the point where cards like Hypnotic Specter and Vampire Nighthawk are getting cut from a lot of cubes. However, even though I'm not running it anymore in my own list I wouldn't bat an eye to see it in anyone else's list.
Ravnic, since you're not running planeswalkers Curse of Shallow Graves seems like a very strong option for your cube. Also, FWIW it's considered potentially banworthy by a lot of Peasant cube managers.
Curse of Predation is still quite strong in my cube. I don't see myself cutting it anytime soon.
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(Now I'm realizing again just how good Gravecrawler really is. What a sweet card.)
Cheers,
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Pox never was good for me. I am leaving in Smallpox. I am also ramping up Black aggro so I left in Sinkhole for now.
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Ha, it's funny what points of view will do. Flutter and I play the same cube, and I love, love, love this card. It's insanely good IMO in any Bx aggro decks or suicide-black style decks, it gives you a creature the turn you play it almost every time in those decks and ensures you have an attacker pretty much every turn for the rest of the game for free. In pox/stax it's a bitterblossom that doesn't cost you life in a lot of games. While I don't think it's quite all-star status, I think it's above solid and is very, very good and probably in black's top 20-25% for me.
Bottom line though, it's somewhere from solid to very good and you should certainly be playing it. It lives up to the zombieblossom nickname.
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It's not bad and it's still making it into some decks - especially token builds where it is pretty good - but it is near the chopping block for me.
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I disagree with this. That's one of the decks where it's been strongest. Playing a single card that generates a threat every turn is ideal for that deck, because it allows you to do exactly that by holding up countermagic in subsequent turns whilst continuing to populate the board. I typically start holding countermagic up at T4 onwards anyway, depending on situation, as that's where the Wraths and planeswalkers start appearing to ruin my way. Bitterblossom and CoSG are both high drafts if I get the U/B tempo urge.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
In my cube Curse has been kind of win-more. If you are safely attacking every turn after then 3 you are generally winning already.
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Ravnic, since you're not running planeswalkers Curse of Shallow Graves seems like a very strong option for your cube. Also, FWIW it's considered potentially banworthy by a lot of Peasant cube managers.
Curse of Predation is still quite strong in my cube. I don't see myself cutting it anytime soon.
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