My opponent's aggro deck once went T-1 creature, T-2 creature, T-3 Curse and I was like (!!!). I was the control deck and didn't hit any of my wraths early. I had Omenspeaker but it would have just died if it blocked. I was expecting to control the game with Shackles but the creatures got too big too fast. Not sure where to slot this card as far as the size of Cubes but I'd say around 450 (I run 540).
As a sidenote I'm hoping to have more of a token theme in my Cube over the next year. This is a card that will be insane with more tokens.
I don't understand that - of course it would be better with cycling. So would Time Walk and Black Lotus. I could understand wanting cycling on a very inconsistent effect, but this is basically nearly always good. The card is immensely powerful for its three mana cost, regardless of whether you 'want creature combat to be a thing' (in what environment isn't it a thing?). Your opponent doesn't have to have creatures for it to be very good in an aggro or midrange deck. It's a quick three mana clock there with a persisting effect should it be removed.
I consider it a very easy include at 360. Not even close to the cut IMO, and I don't run a great number of the green aggro cards.
Why is everyone blowing a gasket over the cycling comment? Good grief.
If your board is empty, the card is useless. I agree with Goodking and company. I think this card is plenty good enough as printed and doesn't need cycling to be worth a slot at any cube size. After all, we were (are?) still cubing with Glorious Anthem, and I think this card has a better effect and it's more splashable. I don't think you need to support green aggro for this to have value. Tokens is where it's probably best anyway.
I'm kinda an easy target! I'm also a little glib with that sort of thing. I probably should have said I think it's a prime candidate for cycling.
I really like effects like this, that in many games might not equate to a card's worth of value, giving it cycling feels super right. +1/+1 counters on an attacking creature is kinda a thing that is only cuing on particular circumstances, but also not always too relevant. I like it, I've played with it, but I've definitely had times when I wish it was something that didn't feel like moldervine cloak sitting in my hand and I always wish more of these narrow green effects cycled. You know how nice it is that Akroma's Vengeance cycles right? How often you aren't in a place you want to cast it but there is something in your deck you'd want to do right now?
Seems like a fine card. I might include it in the rare section of my peasant cube when people want to put rares in each pack. It seems like a good green anthem and anthems are pretty good in some formats.
+1/+1 counters on an attacking creature is kinda a thing that is only cuing on particular circumstances, but also not always too relevant.
I don't think attacking with creatures is a 'particular circumstance', being as how it is the primary way that games are won. Especially in green decks. The sometimes-do-nothing aspect of this card is balanced by the fact that it gives cumulative benefits and is hard to deal with.
This is probably one area where the game could have been improved fundamentally from the start. ALL cards probably should have cycled. It should have been a sorcery speed action you can always take on your turn (something like, pay one mana, discard a card and draw a card). And not tied to a card ability, but something like a phase (before your main phase, you may cycle).
It would have helped with mana flood/screw and given you more opportunities to get to cards you needed. It would have made more narrow cards maindeckable too. There's tons of benefit.
It's not a rule you could implement now because not all cards were designed with cycling in mind (cycling fatties for reanimator - it's all too easy if every card cycles).
The game would have evolved much differently with that rule in place, but I actually think it would be a better game had it had this mechanic from the beginning.
This is probably one area where the game could have been improved fundamentally from the start. ALL cards probably should have cycled. It should have been a sorcery speed action you can always take on your turn (something like, pay one mana, discard a card and draw a card). And not tied to a card ability, but something like a phase (before your main phase, you may cycle).
It would have helped with mana flood/screw and given you more opportunities to get to cards you needed. It would have made more narrow cards maindeckable too. There's tons of benefit.
It's not a rule you could implement now because not all cards were designed with cycling in mind (cycling fatties for reanimator - it's all too easy if every card cycles).
The game would have evolved much differently with that rule in place, but I actually think it would be a better game had it had this mechanic from the beginning.
This is probably one area where the game could have been improved fundamentally from the start. ALL cards probably should have cycled. It should have been a sorcery speed action you can always take on your turn (something like, pay one mana, discard a card and draw a card). And not tied to a card ability, but something like a phase (before your main phase, you may cycle).
It would have helped with mana flood/screw and given you more opportunities to get to cards you needed. It would have made more narrow cards maindeckable too. There's tons of benefit.
It's not a rule you could implement now because not all cards were designed with cycling in mind (cycling fatties for reanimator - it's all too easy if every card cycles).
The game would have evolved much differently with that rule in place, but I actually think it would be a better game had it had this mechanic from the beginning.
Richard Garfield implemented this very idea in his second CCG and considered it an improvement, so you're in good company here.
(Before people rag on it, yes I know V:TES wasn't as successful as Magic. But consider that it had an inaccessible theme, require 5 players for a good game, contained player elimination, a playtime north of two hours and didn't have limited print run early editions to fuel collectors AND in spite of that stayed in print for 16 years with over 20 expansions. If it had been made first, designed for 15 minute duels and fantasy themed we would all be playing it right now)
Magic is a great game as it is. I don't disagree. But it has weaknesses. Mana flood/screw is a big issue that ruins a lot of games. And it's not about improper deck construction or poor mulligan skills but a fundamental design flaw with the game. There's no question that could be improved upon with a different or modified resource system. Whether that can happen now after 20 years of printing cards... that I'm not sure about.
As far as the game being better or worse if all cards could have been cycled from the beginning as a default game mechanic, it's impossible to really speculate. The game would have been very different and it would have evolved in another direction.
I think the random element to the game is important. Is it a bummer when it happens to you? Sure. But it's part of the game. Just like Poker. Pocket Aces can still lose. But skill still makes up the majority of the wins and loses in both games. If you want to play a game without any random element at all, play Chess.
So, the resolution of wanting to play a fantasy card game with heavy levels of customization that has less frustration causing randomness is to . . . play chess?
The problem being lamented is not that the game has randomness in determining who wins, but that the randomness makes playing the game out to find who wins unenjoyable.
The game as designed has 20 years of inertia behind it. Its flaws have become tropes in themselves and charming in their own way. The game is not going to undergo a fundamental change to its resource system. I think we all accept that. That doesn't mean we can't muse over missed design opportunities that the creator of the game himself recognizes.
The problem being lamented is not that the game has randomness in determining who wins, but that the randomness makes playing the game out to find who wins unenjoyable.
QFT
Getting flooded or screwed is an unfun way to lose to randomness since you don't interact with your opponent and essentially don't get to play Magic. Though as Flower said, it's a flaw that's built into the game that most of us are well-adjusted to.
Notice that Hearthstone mimics Magic in gameplay, but was designed in such a way to avoid this rage-triggering flaw. Hero Academy for Steam/mobile is another such example. You have a "hand" of units, and you can spend an action to return a unit to your "library" to randomly receive a new unit.
On the other hand, it is this same flaw that allows me to enjoy the power of Brainstorm and Sylvan Library, so it is what it is.
I would actually like to try playing MTG with a "once per turn, before you untap, you may exile a card from your hand face-down and put a card from on top of your library into your hand" rule.
Games without a degree of variance don't last. VS. System was an AWESOME game, but small mistakes compounded so greatly that a small mistake on turn two or three could cost you the game on turn 6 or 7. The better player won an inordinate amount of the time, and more casual gamers got tired of always losing to the better players. There was also an insane amount of tutors, so you could almost have the 'any card you want at any time' rule, especially in Golden Age.
There is a reason why magic and poker are so popular while VS and bridge are only played in back rooms by people living in the past. The fact that you can get topdecked (Bonfire at WMC, e.g.) or river'd is why people keep coming back to the tables even thought they are inferior players. Most games need sharks and fish to have a healthy ecosystem and stay popular and relevant, and that's what Magic and Poker have...which is they are going strong.
-AA
P.S. On topic, just ordered one for my Cube and expect it to be awesome. The splashability helps a lot, and recent token support helps as well.
So, the resolution of wanting to play a fantasy card game with heavy levels of customization that has less frustration causing randomness is to . . . play chess?
No. Only that if you're unwilling to play games that have an element of luck to them, Chess is your best option.
Haven't seen it in play in my cube yet (only been in a week), but that is quite the supporting statement.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
As a sidenote I'm hoping to have more of a token theme in my Cube over the next year. This is a card that will be insane with more tokens.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
But would you like it a lot or would it need more abilities wtw?
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
I consider it a very easy include at 360. Not even close to the cut IMO, and I don't run a great number of the green aggro cards.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
If your board is empty, the card is useless. I agree with Goodking and company. I think this card is plenty good enough as printed and doesn't need cycling to be worth a slot at any cube size. After all, we were (are?) still cubing with Glorious Anthem, and I think this card has a better effect and it's more splashable. I don't think you need to support green aggro for this to have value. Tokens is where it's probably best anyway.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Curse of Predation has been awesome for us. My only gripe about this card is that there isn't a foil version.
I was wondering the same thing!
I really like effects like this, that in many games might not equate to a card's worth of value, giving it cycling feels super right. +1/+1 counters on an attacking creature is kinda a thing that is only cuing on particular circumstances, but also not always too relevant. I like it, I've played with it, but I've definitely had times when I wish it was something that didn't feel like moldervine cloak sitting in my hand and I always wish more of these narrow green effects cycled. You know how nice it is that Akroma's Vengeance cycles right? How often you aren't in a place you want to cast it but there is something in your deck you'd want to do right now?
Seems like a fine card. I might include it in the rare section of my peasant cube when people want to put rares in each pack. It seems like a good green anthem and anthems are pretty good in some formats.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
I don't think attacking with creatures is a 'particular circumstance', being as how it is the primary way that games are won. Especially in green decks. The sometimes-do-nothing aspect of this card is balanced by the fact that it gives cumulative benefits and is hard to deal with.
I'll tell people to maindeck it next time. or else.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
This is probably one area where the game could have been improved fundamentally from the start. ALL cards probably should have cycled. It should have been a sorcery speed action you can always take on your turn (something like, pay one mana, discard a card and draw a card). And not tied to a card ability, but something like a phase (before your main phase, you may cycle).
It would have helped with mana flood/screw and given you more opportunities to get to cards you needed. It would have made more narrow cards maindeckable too. There's tons of benefit.
It's not a rule you could implement now because not all cards were designed with cycling in mind (cycling fatties for reanimator - it's all too easy if every card cycles).
The game would have evolved much differently with that rule in place, but I actually think it would be a better game had it had this mechanic from the beginning.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
No way man. The game would be terrible.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Richard Garfield implemented this very idea in his second CCG and considered it an improvement, so you're in good company here.
(Before people rag on it, yes I know V:TES wasn't as successful as Magic. But consider that it had an inaccessible theme, require 5 players for a good game, contained player elimination, a playtime north of two hours and didn't have limited print run early editions to fuel collectors AND in spite of that stayed in print for 16 years with over 20 expansions. If it had been made first, designed for 15 minute duels and fantasy themed we would all be playing it right now)
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
I don't think it would've been good for Magic.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
As far as the game being better or worse if all cards could have been cycled from the beginning as a default game mechanic, it's impossible to really speculate. The game would have been very different and it would have evolved in another direction.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The problem being lamented is not that the game has randomness in determining who wins, but that the randomness makes playing the game out to find who wins unenjoyable.
The game as designed has 20 years of inertia behind it. Its flaws have become tropes in themselves and charming in their own way. The game is not going to undergo a fundamental change to its resource system. I think we all accept that. That doesn't mean we can't muse over missed design opportunities that the creator of the game himself recognizes.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
QFT
Getting flooded or screwed is an unfun way to lose to randomness since you don't interact with your opponent and essentially don't get to play Magic. Though as Flower said, it's a flaw that's built into the game that most of us are well-adjusted to.
Notice that Hearthstone mimics Magic in gameplay, but was designed in such a way to avoid this rage-triggering flaw. Hero Academy for Steam/mobile is another such example. You have a "hand" of units, and you can spend an action to return a unit to your "library" to randomly receive a new unit.
On the other hand, it is this same flaw that allows me to enjoy the power of Brainstorm and Sylvan Library, so it is what it is.
There is a reason why magic and poker are so popular while VS and bridge are only played in back rooms by people living in the past. The fact that you can get topdecked (Bonfire at WMC, e.g.) or river'd is why people keep coming back to the tables even thought they are inferior players. Most games need sharks and fish to have a healthy ecosystem and stay popular and relevant, and that's what Magic and Poker have...which is they are going strong.
-AA
P.S. On topic, just ordered one for my Cube and expect it to be awesome. The splashability helps a lot, and recent token support helps as well.
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
No. Only that if you're unwilling to play games that have an element of luck to them, Chess is your best option.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!