Turn/Burn looks mediocre to me, which is not what I want from a gold card. I's throw in Snakeform first, and I'm not running it.
But that's the trick in my mind. Snakeform can only do one thing and I have not other simic hybrids to offset with it. Drafting and playing it in a blue deck is the narrowist scenerio for this card. I find that equivalent to an artifact deck taking an off color signet just for the ramping(Not what it is intended for but it happens)
Early on I made the mistake of a gold section that was too large, so I have trimmed it down to 4 in a 360 cube. But at the same time I keep looking for options to promote guilds/archetypes like Izzet that aren't getting the love. Also I am looking for getting more flexbililty in everywhere.
Now I am not saying this is a blockbuster but I would like to test it(with Fire/Ice also moving to hybrid) when I bring in Ral to give me more space in Izzet and try to inspire more Izzet love in my group.
Four per pair is just about OK at 360, if you can make sure that includes the playable 'extra' lands like Tar Pit, Colonnade and Horizon Canopy, and plenty of hybrids. That way, most of the guilds have only about 2 hard gold cards, 3 in some cases. I agree with wtwlf thatI certainly wouldn't want to have as many as four real gold cards per pair and then use my mono-slots for the hybrids.
Four per pair is just about OK at 360, if you can make sure that includes the playable 'extra' lands like Tar Pit, Colonnade and Horizon Canopy, and plenty of hybrids. That way, most of the guilds have only about 2 hard gold cards, 3 in some cases. I agree with wtwlf thatI certainly wouldn't want to have as many as four real gold cards per pair and then use my mono-slots for the hybrids.
I think the most advice I have seen in the forums is <10%. So I am definitely over that. It is a little unfair for me to ask anyones feedback on my cube since I haven't posted it yet(my bad). But so far 4 per guild is very appealing to my group. Also keep in mind that I started building my cube/magic collection after innistrad and so it is skewed to the last couple blocks where we have gotten an abundence of good gold cards.
I run 5 nonlands per guild in my 360 unpowered cube. There is never a shortage of playable cards and 5 color control isn't running rampant. I feel like 10% is a good baseline, but it really is based on the feel of the cube group and/or cube itself.
I play 4 nonlands per guild in 450, and that's a recent change, down from 5. On the one hand, this means awesome guild cards I would like to play with don't get included. On the other hand, this means that picks 13 and 14 are more relevant now than they used to be back when I ran 5 or 6 per guild and some 3 color cards as well. I think it makes drafts better if there are fewer guild cards and the guild cards that exist are ones that make you want to play the guild.
Turn/Burn is awesome. If you're playing U/R it gives you actual outs to Terastodon or something like that. Of course, blue already has outs to giant creatures like that, Control Magic, Sower, Treachery, etc. I like that it gives you access to an answer you didn't have before, but how many people playing a blue deck are going to splash red for this card? What about red decks splashing blue? It's just not going to happen.
For me, if a card is great if you're already in a guild but not good enough to want you to play the guild, then it's not a good guild card for cube. There are certainly exceptions, but I think that's a good place to start.
It is powerful. It will see play in many formats. If your definition of 'powerful' differs from mine, which is entirely possible seeing as it is largely subjective, then we don't have a topic we can usefully discuss. Let's move on.
Fair enough, especially considering 'powerful' is a term requiring context. In the kingdom of the blind, a one-eyed man is very 'powerful'.
I would never ignore better burn effects or artifact kill effects for these cards, but of course they would be playable in that situation. My point regarding the potential usefulness of W/T is that is can kill either type of target, or both, and only requires a single colour of mana. That's pretty cool if you want that effect. Saying it "sucks", that the color combo is "WAAAAAAY too deep" (six A's and Caps Lock, no less) and that it's "garbage", is the exact kind of hyperbole we can do without. It's negative and I try to call people out on this behaviour where possible.
First off, let me say that I'm perfectly within my rights to say a card sucks/be negative/use capital letters (Caps lock is for lazy people; I held down the shift button) about it and should not be harangued for doing so, especially when I gave some context (in saying that it is too deep). I shouldn't have to constantly monitor myself, especially considering that I'm insulting an inanimate object that no one here has had any hand in creating. The card does pale in comparison next to a multitude of other options available; ergo, it is really bad (sucks) because the section is way too deep. Shock sucks in the land of Lightning Bolts.
Regarding the card, it DOES require both colors if you want to be able to destroy either type or both...otherwise it is just Shatter or Demystify, neither of which are spectacular considering there are other cards available that do the job better. This card is like coming to a Matrix-office-lobby-scene-like gun fight with a musket.
Eh? It's nothing to do with available cards. If someone needs 7-8 cards in their R/W section, and they feel lacking for targeted effects of this kind, then I wouldn't complain about this card being in their scopes for selection. With every card ever available, or not. I never said it should see play in "lots of cubes". It probably isn't good enough to see play in a huge number. It is, however, good enough to see play in some cubes, in my opinion. That makes it worthy of discussion in the cube forum. If you disagree with that statement, i.e. you think that it should not see play in any cubes, then that should form the crux of our discussion - without any hyperbole.
People are allowed to do whatever they want with the cards they include. That doesn't make MY opinion invalid or without value regardless of how I presented it, hyperbole or not. If our lives had 0 hyperbole/similes/metaphors, they would be pretty boring and dispassionate. Everything is worthy of discussion; my part in said discussion was to say that the card sucks and shouldn't be on the radar of people who can run all the other WR cards available. DHM is a very similar card but better, imo, and that was recently cut from my 7 card non-guild RW section...so where does that make this card fall? If you don't have access to the entirety of RW sections (through things like Pauper/Peasant, Classic, no PWs, modern-face only, etc.), then maybe this card will be within the realm of playable. But the position from which I speak, which is all-inclusive outside of power-type cards, says it is roadkill on the Boros bypass.
I try to think beyond my own cube list when discussing new cards. Otherwise, why post outside our own cube threads? I hope that constructive discussion on newly spoiled cards is useful to someone. If not, someone tell me otherwise so I can stop posting.
I don't think outside of my own format, as I stated above, because I don't feel authorized to speak about others like C/U or restricted-set Cubes. Ergo, I supply my opinion mostly within the area of my knowledge: non-powered mid-sized Cubes and those that are related. In which this card is garbage.
Sure. I'm saying there are a glut of cards you have defended in the past that I don't consider very strong or widely playable. However, I would never tell you that they "suck", are "garbage" or anything of the sort. I'll just say why I don't think they are good, or why I prefer other options, and move along. It wasn't a dig at you personally - why would I? - and I would hope you'd have realised that.
Here's the thing: You are entirely within your right to say that they do, AND I wouldn't be angry if you did! Because it is your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it and to express it, no matter how wrong or right I or others think it is. And I think this card is a cat turd rolled in litter.
Perhaps it is a cultural thing, because where I grew up the 'glass houses' phrase is certainly used mostly for personal attacks and it is one reserved for very sarcastic/scathing replies. That is why I asked about it before reacting too strongly to it. I understand now that it is just about your crusade to eliminate strong/emotional language in discussions of cards.
I just have a hard time being calm and aloof about cards when I take pride in being so passionate about Cube and Magic (and life, for that matter).
As people have said, Turn//Burn directly competes with Prophetic Bolt because of the mana cost. Yes, I know I could only cast one side of it but there are so many cards that do it more efficiently in my Cube. I'd much rather have Prophetic Bolt over Turn//Burn and it's not even close. Saying all that, I just cut P-Bolt for Ral Zarek & was super excited to finally find an Izzet card where I could get rid of the 5-mana instant.
The GW bear is sweet, but it doesn't make a token post wrath right?
Voice of Resurgence GW
Whenever an opponent casts a spell during your turn, or whenever Voice of Resurgence dies, put a green and white Elemental creature token onto the battlefield with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of creatures you control."
2/2
This card also looks like it'll make it into large lists:
Renegade Krasis 1GG
Evolve
Whenever ~ evolves, put a +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it.
3/2
The GW bear is sweet, but it doesn't make a token post wrath right?
Voice of Resurgence GW
Whenever an opponent casts a spell during your turn, or whenever Voice of Resurgence dies, put a green and white Elemental creature token onto the battlefield with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of creatures you control."
2/2
You get a token post wrath. It says "when he dies"..he has to die in order for that to trigger.
And baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalls is the Voice good. So if they kill it at the end of your turn you get 2 guys out of it. Yep yep yep yep.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I kinda like Far & Away. It read return target creature hand, destroy that creature to me :P. I knows it doesn't have to be like that, but just look kinda decent.
I kinda like Far & Away. It read return target creature hand, destroy that creature to me :P. I knows it doesn't have to be like that, but just look kinda decent.
I'll be playing it in my hybrid section until there is another option.
Far/Away seems solid if unexciting. I'm not married to most of my Dimir section so I will test it to see how it plays. Seems like it could have some sweet utility versus the annoying hexproof creatures.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I do like the fact that Far//Away is an instant which makes the card/s more valuable. I'm not sure if I'll play it in my Dimir section but it might warrant some testing
Far//Away is so cool. It's hard to tell how competitive it is without trying it, but the Edict side is pretty good value on its own which is a nice start. Dimir isn't all that deep, so perhaps groups who draft Ux aggro decks will get good mileage out of this one.
The only question I have with Far//Away is how much damage do I take from my duskmantle seer. Finkel might ride the pine for a while to try this out. I really am enjoying Dimir Charm more than I though I would, and I love the Seer and Strix. Depending on if you run the Agent of Bolas this might be about 5-6 in the guild IMO.
But that's the trick in my mind. Snakeform can only do one thing and I have not other simic hybrids to offset with it. Drafting and playing it in a blue deck is the narrowist scenerio for this card. I find that equivalent to an artifact deck taking an off color signet just for the ramping(Not what it is intended for but it happens)
Early on I made the mistake of a gold section that was too large, so I have trimmed it down to 4 in a 360 cube. But at the same time I keep looking for options to promote guilds/archetypes like Izzet that aren't getting the love. Also I am looking for getting more flexbililty in everywhere.
Now I am not saying this is a blockbuster but I would like to test it(with Fire/Ice also moving to hybrid) when I bring in Ral to give me more space in Izzet and try to inspire more Izzet love in my group.
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I think the most advice I have seen in the forums is <10%. So I am definitely over that. It is a little unfair for me to ask anyones feedback on my cube since I haven't posted it yet(my bad). But so far 4 per guild is very appealing to my group. Also keep in mind that I started building my cube/magic collection after innistrad and so it is skewed to the last couple blocks where we have gotten an abundence of good gold cards.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Turn/Burn is awesome. If you're playing U/R it gives you actual outs to Terastodon or something like that. Of course, blue already has outs to giant creatures like that, Control Magic, Sower, Treachery, etc. I like that it gives you access to an answer you didn't have before, but how many people playing a blue deck are going to splash red for this card? What about red decks splashing blue? It's just not going to happen.
For me, if a card is great if you're already in a guild but not good enough to want you to play the guild, then it's not a good guild card for cube. There are certainly exceptions, but I think that's a good place to start.
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Fair enough, especially considering 'powerful' is a term requiring context. In the kingdom of the blind, a one-eyed man is very 'powerful'.
First off, let me say that I'm perfectly within my rights to say a card sucks/be negative/use capital letters (Caps lock is for lazy people; I held down the shift button) about it and should not be harangued for doing so, especially when I gave some context (in saying that it is too deep). I shouldn't have to constantly monitor myself, especially considering that I'm insulting an inanimate object that no one here has had any hand in creating. The card does pale in comparison next to a multitude of other options available; ergo, it is really bad (sucks) because the section is way too deep. Shock sucks in the land of Lightning Bolts.
Regarding the card, it DOES require both colors if you want to be able to destroy either type or both...otherwise it is just Shatter or Demystify, neither of which are spectacular considering there are other cards available that do the job better. This card is like coming to a Matrix-office-lobby-scene-like gun fight with a musket.
People are allowed to do whatever they want with the cards they include. That doesn't make MY opinion invalid or without value regardless of how I presented it, hyperbole or not. If our lives had 0 hyperbole/similes/metaphors, they would be pretty boring and dispassionate. Everything is worthy of discussion; my part in said discussion was to say that the card sucks and shouldn't be on the radar of people who can run all the other WR cards available. DHM is a very similar card but better, imo, and that was recently cut from my 7 card non-guild RW section...so where does that make this card fall? If you don't have access to the entirety of RW sections (through things like Pauper/Peasant, Classic, no PWs, modern-face only, etc.), then maybe this card will be within the realm of playable. But the position from which I speak, which is all-inclusive outside of power-type cards, says it is roadkill on the Boros bypass.
I don't think outside of my own format, as I stated above, because I don't feel authorized to speak about others like C/U or restricted-set Cubes. Ergo, I supply my opinion mostly within the area of my knowledge: non-powered mid-sized Cubes and those that are related. In which this card is garbage.
Here's the thing: You are entirely within your right to say that they do, AND I wouldn't be angry if you did! Because it is your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it and to express it, no matter how wrong or right I or others think it is. And I think this card is a cat turd rolled in litter.
Perhaps it is a cultural thing, because where I grew up the 'glass houses' phrase is certainly used mostly for personal attacks and it is one reserved for very sarcastic/scathing replies. That is why I asked about it before reacting too strongly to it. I understand now that it is just about your crusade to eliminate strong/emotional language in discussions of cards.
I just have a hard time being calm and aloof about cards when I take pride in being so passionate about Cube and Magic (and life, for that matter).
Got it!
-AA
P.S. For a sweet rendition of the Matrix scene, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RrpGgaT5kk
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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Voice of Resurgence GW
Whenever an opponent casts a spell during your turn, or whenever Voice of Resurgence dies, put a green and white Elemental creature token onto the battlefield with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of creatures you control."
2/2
This card also looks like it'll make it into large lists:
Renegade Krasis 1GG
Evolve
Whenever ~ evolves, put a +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it.
3/2
You get a token post wrath. It says "when he dies"..he has to die in order for that to trigger.
And baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalls is the Voice good. So if they kill it at the end of your turn you get 2 guys out of it. Yep yep yep yep.
Hmm assuming you didn't have a Finks or Strangleroot ready to come back you'll get effectively a 0/0.
The token counts itself, so you'll get a 1/1.
Hahahahah oh wow duh. Instant include!
It's not "other creatures".
It's "creatures you control" which means it counts itself on the battlefield as well.
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I'll be playing it in my hybrid section until there is another option.
I still have hope for a staple fuse card!
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