Got a few games with him as well and he basically annihilated my opponent each time I played him. Had him in a U/W control shell with a lot of good artifact mana and just killed my opponent like i was playing an aggro deck. Snapped him into play on turn 4 and ate my opponent's face. Other games revolved around less busted decks but he still did the same thing, bash for 7-8 then block their best guy, rinse lather repeat. Permanent staple no question about it for me.
Okay, sorry to necro this thread, but I finally picked up an Aetherling, and have been wondering: I know it's good, but how obnoxious is it? I cut Wurmcoil Engine from my cube since it was such a no-brainer easy win condition. Do you find Aetherling leads to feel-bad wins, like True Name Nemesis can? These "annihilated my opponent and he couldn't do anything about it" comments make me leery...
I consider Wurmcoil and TNN fine, so take this with a cellar of salt, but Aetherling is 'just' a great control finisher. The thing that makes great control finishers the better ones is because they are inherently harder to deal with. If I can reach the costs and survive long enough to play such an expensive card, I really want something at least as good as a Titan or an Aetherling to ensure me some value in the face of removal, or to resist it very well. You could just replace every good control finisher with a Mahamoti Djinn boring fatty or a durdley Deadeye Navigator fancy card, but I'd rather something resilient and effective
Okay, sorry to necro this thread, but I finally picked up an Aetherling, and have been wondering: I know it's good, but how obnoxious is it? I cut Wurmcoil Engine from my cube since it was such a no-brainer easy win condition. Do you find Aetherling leads to feel-bad wins, like True Name Nemesis can? These "annihilated my opponent and he couldn't do anything about it" comments make me leery...
Not really, no. I mean, even in mono-durdles MODO cube, I recently sided it out because my other finishers were better for that matchup.
To be fair, Aetherling basically costs 4UUU to cast, so I feel like it should be pretty powerful. Wurmcoil Engine goes in any midrange/control deck and TNN is a 3-drop.
Okay, sorry to necro this thread, but I finally picked up an Aetherling, and have been wondering: I know it's good, but how obnoxious is it? I cut Wurmcoil Engine from my cube since it was such a no-brainer easy win condition. Do you find Aetherling leads to feel-bad wins, like True Name Nemesis can? These "annihilated my opponent and he couldn't do anything about it" comments make me leery...
It requires a steep commitment to blue, so I don't think your players will feel it's as egregiously a "dumb auto-win" as Wurmcoil might to some people, because it can just go into everything.
Aetherling is an excellent control finisher, but it feels as if the player has earned the win, requiring them to survive to the lategame. Wurmcoil can pull anyone back from the brink with its Lifelink ability, and can go in almost any deck.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Ætherling may be the best control vs. control finisher ever printed. He's incredible at surviving every kind of removal and evading enemy blockers for a quick victory. He is obviously very good against multiple archetypes, but that matchup is the one he really shines in.
That being said, I don't like control vs. control finishers to begin with (very narrow subset of games honestly), and we don't play him in our 360 powered cube because we don't have the room for him.
If your cube is on the larger or slower side, he's fantastic, and he is great all the way down to powered 450s where I'd likely play him.
It's the best control finisher period. Not just in control vs control. In fact, it's a better finisher in your non-control matchups, where his defensive capabilities are put to better use.
I like Meloku and Consecrated Sphinx a good bit more, especially in other matchups where you can't always afford to wait until 4UUU for your finisher to start doing work.
From my experience, AEtherling is pretty amazing. I would agree that he is likely the best finisher creature. Meloku and Sphinx are amazing as well of course. Though Sphinx is my favorite create in the cube to Doom Blade (might be tied with Kalonian Hydra). When a control player taps out for a t6 Sphinx, it usually makes me smile, kill it, and laugh all the way to a win, which is why I guess I don't see it being cheaper then AEtherling.
Apparently, unbeknownst to me, my cube is quite slow given my attachment to cards like AEtherling and baby Jace. I would love to draft and play your cube Colby and see how much faster it is then mine or wtwlf's. Thankfully, a friend of mine created a pool he calls the Metacube, which allows us to build basically every cube on mtgs, so maybe I will make that my weekend project. Excited to try your setup!
I don't think any cube that plays baby Jace or Aetherling is slow, although both of those cards would do better in slower cubes. I'd play both at powered 450, which is what wtwlf123's cube is, and his cube is very balanced between aggro, mid-range, and control.
My cube is likely a little faster, but probably not by that much.
EDIT: Also, my cube isn't updated on CubeTutor, although you're welcome to imput the cube from my MTGS thread into whichever program allows you to do what you want to. We're testing some different cards at the moment (which you can see in the last post of my cube list) if you'd like to try the version I'll be cubing with tonight & Friday.
I like Meloku and Consecrated Sphinx a good bit more, especially in other matchups where you can't always afford to wait until 4UUU for your finisher to start doing work.
Meloku is a better card, but it's not as reliable as a dedicated control finisher. And Sphinx is a good card draw engine, but isn't really good in the role of "finisher" IMO, considering how unreliable it is. None of them have the protection and the inevitability that Ætherling does.
EDIT: Also, my cube isn't updated on CubeTutor, although you're welcome to imput the cube from my MTGS thread into whichever program allows you to do what you want to. We're testing some different cards at the moment (which you can see in the last post of my cube list) if you'd like to try the version I'll be cubing with tonight & Friday.
Awesome! We do use a cubetutor scraper to get the bulk of the info, but I can use your thread to find the differences. If I manage it, I will let you know! Thanks again!
Not sure I would say Meloku is the better card. I know a lot of people love it, but a lot of ppl are cutting it too. I feel that is a pretty balanced way to think about it, some love, some eh, prob in the middle.
Meloku is a better card, but it's not as reliable as a dedicated control finisher. And Sphinx is a good card draw engine, but isn't really good in the role of "finisher" IMO, considering how unreliable it is. None of them have the protection and the inevitability that Ætherling does.
It's the best control finisher period. Not just in control vs control. In fact, it's a better finisher in your non-control matchups, where his defensive capabilities are put to better use.
I like the other finishers / high casting cost blue creatures against decks that aren't control. Ætherling is sweet though, no question about it. He really shines his brightest in the control mirror.
I think there's a distinction between a high mana creature and a dedicated control finisher. I think that's where the communication breakdown is coming in at.
I don't understand where the distinction is, and if there is one it must be pretty arbitrary because Meloku and Consecrated Sphinx will definitely finish the game.
What other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
A dedicated control finisher usually doesn't need any other cards to protect it or help it win you the game. Indrik Stomphowler has finished tons of games but I would never call it a finisher. The list of creatures that have never actually finished a game is probably pretty small but that doesn't mean you can set them and forget them the same way you can with something like Aetherling or Sphinx of Jwar Isle.
I don't understand where the distinction is, and if there is one it must be pretty arbitrary because Meloku and Consecrated Sphinx will definitely finish the game.
What other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
Any creature can win the game. But in order to be a true finisher, it has to be engineered to close out a game. First and foremost, this requires the creature to protect itself. Ideally, there's evasion involved (to make the clock more reliable) and in a perfect world it will have some way to protect YOU while it's winning the game. All the best control finishers meet those three criteria, IMO. Ætherling happens to be one of the best at accomplishing all three of those goals. A case can definitely be made for Meloku, because the tokens help accomplish two of those tasks, but his vulnerability to removal makes him somewhat less reliable at closing out games. If I had to do all 20 damage with one win condition, I'd put my eggs in the Ætherling basket. I don't consider the distinction arbitrary.
You mentioned "ideally" and "in a perfect world" but these are just preferences and not requirements for being called a finisher.
Serra Angel was The Deck's finisher for the longest time, and it had no way to protect itself.
I think you're putting a lot of unnecessary restrictions on what can be called and what can not be called a finisher.
I don't think you answered my question as well - what other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
Serra Angel was The Deck's finisher for the longest time, and it had no way to protect itself.
That was in an era when no creatures protected themselves. When Autumn Willow came out, it was stellar because it was one of the few cards that could do so. And it was a great constructed finisher at the time because of it.
Morphling is also a great dedicated control finisher for the same reasons. It protects itself, protects you, and has evasion.
Maybe your cube has less targeted removal than other ones, but having your control finishers protect themselves is a pretty big deal. Or maybe your cube sees less creature combat than mine, so protecting you while winning isn't as crucial. I don't know.
I'm not saying you can't win games with other creatures. I'm saying that if I want a dedicated control finisher, Ætherling is the best one. Meloku is also great. But I think Sphinx makes for a pretty poor finisher. It's great for drawing some cards and then dying. It's not very good at being a lone win condition.
You mentioned "ideally" and "in a perfect world" but these are just preferences and not requirements for being called a finisher.
Serra Angel was The Deck's finisher for the longest time, and it had no way to protect itself.
I think you're putting a lot of unnecessary restrictions on what can be called and what can not be called a finisher.
I don't think you answered my question as well - what other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
Serra Angel actually meets 2 of his 3 criteria. Evasion, and it still blocks while it swings.
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Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Which is why it was one of the best finishers available at the time. There weren't creatures that met all three of those requirements until Morphling came out. And it was the best finisher for control decks for years and years.
He is saying that the role of finisher is defined by how well a card does those 3 things. And Aertherling does 2/3 of the things better than almost any other card while also doing the third thing decently. It meets the qualifications of being a finisher better than any other 7 mana or less card in blue.
I would maybe reword the qualifications slightly as:
1. Kills the opponent fast.
2. Keeps itself alive.
3. Keeps you alive.
In roughly that order of importance.
Also, being the best finisher doesn't mean it is the best card. Meloku can be a value engine, a mid range card, a token maker, a board control card, and more. Aertherling is a better finisher, but Meloku could still be a better card depending on how you value those other functions.
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Not really, no. I mean, even in mono-durdles MODO cube, I recently sided it out because my other finishers were better for that matchup.
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It requires a steep commitment to blue, so I don't think your players will feel it's as egregiously a "dumb auto-win" as Wurmcoil might to some people, because it can just go into everything.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
That being said, I don't like control vs. control finishers to begin with (very narrow subset of games honestly), and we don't play him in our 360 powered cube because we don't have the room for him.
If your cube is on the larger or slower side, he's fantastic, and he is great all the way down to powered 450s where I'd likely play him.
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Apparently, unbeknownst to me, my cube is quite slow given my attachment to cards like AEtherling and baby Jace. I would love to draft and play your cube Colby and see how much faster it is then mine or wtwlf's. Thankfully, a friend of mine created a pool he calls the Metacube, which allows us to build basically every cube on mtgs, so maybe I will make that my weekend project. Excited to try your setup!
My cube is likely a little faster, but probably not by that much.
EDIT: Also, my cube isn't updated on CubeTutor, although you're welcome to imput the cube from my MTGS thread into whichever program allows you to do what you want to. We're testing some different cards at the moment (which you can see in the last post of my cube list) if you'd like to try the version I'll be cubing with tonight & Friday.
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Meloku is a better card, but it's not as reliable as a dedicated control finisher. And Sphinx is a good card draw engine, but isn't really good in the role of "finisher" IMO, considering how unreliable it is. None of them have the protection and the inevitability that Ætherling does.
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Awesome! We do use a cubetutor scraper to get the bulk of the info, but I can use your thread to find the differences. If I manage it, I will let you know! Thanks again!
Not sure I would say Meloku is the better card. I know a lot of people love it, but a lot of ppl are cutting it too. I feel that is a pretty balanced way to think about it, some love, some eh, prob in the middle.
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I was just responding to this quote:
I like the other finishers / high casting cost blue creatures against decks that aren't control. Ætherling is sweet though, no question about it. He really shines his brightest in the control mirror.
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What other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
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Any creature can win the game. But in order to be a true finisher, it has to be engineered to close out a game. First and foremost, this requires the creature to protect itself. Ideally, there's evasion involved (to make the clock more reliable) and in a perfect world it will have some way to protect YOU while it's winning the game. All the best control finishers meet those three criteria, IMO. Ætherling happens to be one of the best at accomplishing all three of those goals. A case can definitely be made for Meloku, because the tokens help accomplish two of those tasks, but his vulnerability to removal makes him somewhat less reliable at closing out games. If I had to do all 20 damage with one win condition, I'd put my eggs in the Ætherling basket. I don't consider the distinction arbitrary.
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Serra Angel was The Deck's finisher for the longest time, and it had no way to protect itself.
I think you're putting a lot of unnecessary restrictions on what can be called and what can not be called a finisher.
I don't think you answered my question as well - what other blue finishers even exist if you're giving Ætherling the title of finisher, but not Meloku or Sphinx?
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That was in an era when no creatures protected themselves. When Autumn Willow came out, it was stellar because it was one of the few cards that could do so. And it was a great constructed finisher at the time because of it.
Morphling is also a great dedicated control finisher for the same reasons. It protects itself, protects you, and has evasion.
Maybe your cube has less targeted removal than other ones, but having your control finishers protect themselves is a pretty big deal. Or maybe your cube sees less creature combat than mine, so protecting you while winning isn't as crucial. I don't know.
I'm not saying you can't win games with other creatures. I'm saying that if I want a dedicated control finisher, Ætherling is the best one. Meloku is also great. But I think Sphinx makes for a pretty poor finisher. It's great for drawing some cards and then dying. It's not very good at being a lone win condition.
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Serra Angel actually meets 2 of his 3 criteria. Evasion, and it still blocks while it swings.
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I would maybe reword the qualifications slightly as:
1. Kills the opponent fast.
2. Keeps itself alive.
3. Keeps you alive.
In roughly that order of importance.
Also, being the best finisher doesn't mean it is the best card. Meloku can be a value engine, a mid range card, a token maker, a board control card, and more. Aertherling is a better finisher, but Meloku could still be a better card depending on how you value those other functions.
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