He is definitely getting a try in my cube. I see him having so many uses, which is rare for red especially at 3 drop.
Let's look at the stuff he does:
He can be just +3 damage for 2. Worth it.
3 power critter for 3 that can recur. Worth it.
Wierd combo potential with double strike/discard outlets etc.
I can free up a spell slot for this guy or one of my 3 drops. I actually like him more than the phoenix, but they really go well together in the same deck. I like having resiliency in red in case I go up agaist other Aggro and need to torch my own team.
Undead Gladiator is actually the card that came to mind when I read Pyrewild Shaman. Just like the Gladiator, it might just be a bit too clunky with the combination of mana costs and timing restrictions. Compared to Chandra's Phoenix, it is possible that the condition to return the Shaman triggers more often, but that only helps when you have the mana available to actually use it. My initial impression is that it misses my 450 cards list.
Alexis seems to be too careful for her first set with a lot of cards. If she made the recurring or the bloodrush cost 1 cheaper I'd be happy and I think it wouldn't be anywhere near broken. Same goes for Turn//Burn for example...
Alexis isn't on the development team, so this doesn't really make sense.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
First off, I'd doubt that the modes or power/toughness on this guy are the same as the card that got made in design, as these kind of cards obviously need some tweaking to make them the right power level and playtesting to see what costs are ideal. Regardless, if the head of design had the final say on everything about every card then why have more than one person on the design team?
Given that Slaugterhorn is not that far off from cube playable in a colour with better creatures, I think this is a solid inclusion personally.
I think it's pretty good. It's a recursive pump spell that can also be played as a threat. Red doesn't have any good combat tricks, and +3/+1 can be relevant a lot (either to squeeze in extra damage or to allow an attacker to survive). He's a poor Squee impersonator, for a lot of reasons. You have to pay to get him back, and you have to connect in combat to get him back. But I think his recursion is more reliable than something like Chandra's Phoenix's was.
I think it's a pretty lackluster 3cc creature (and unlike seemingly everyone else in this thread, I think red's 3-drops are good). But as a recursive pump spell with an optional 3/1 beater mode, I think it has potential. If I played it, it would more likely be a spell than a creature, because I think that's the more relevant mode more often.
I may not be able to get it in at 450, but I would've been able to find room at 540 for sure.
Red is the best color for bloodrush as they are more likely than green to be turning creatures sideways. And any time in any color I get this type of flexibility it is worth trying out. I am also a huge fan of reassembling skeleton and this fits that deck well.
I think he will be good at the block and trade early, 3 power on curve is good for that, than he comes back later whne you get ahead or have some evasion. I might try him over Hell's Thunder.
The more I look, the more I like. I like that he helps smooth your curve, by either filling the two or three spot in the early game. The problem with a lot of combat tricks is that you skip good opportunities to cast them because you are waiting for great opportunities. I can see playing very aggressive with this guy, because odds are he is coming back in the mid to late game.
I also really like that he offers some protection for an aggro deck against mana flood, by being deadly once you hit 4R.
Doesn't look like a 3-drop red creature to me. The most usable mode this card has is bloodrush, so if I were to play this, it would be in a spell slot. With that said, it is definitely a card that I want to try out.
Well said. So does he crack the "acceptable 1R spells" slot? There are a lot of good cards in there already. As a spell, he is a smaller Hammer of Bogardan because it costs 1R to boost a creature + recursion is 3. Hammer is direct damage. As a spell, this needs a creature to do MORE damage. You could alternatively play it as a fragile 3/1 creature for 2R. That's not the scariest thing in the cube for 3, but it has potential recursion.
I agree this is not worth comparing to Chandra's Phoenix as the two, while similar, function differently.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I'll slot it as a spell, because I think it'll be played as a pump spell more often. But it also has a creature mode that will be valuable as a recursive threat from time to time. It's a pretty flexible card.
But even just the threat of potential recursion can have an impact on the game. They may be forced to chump or trade unfavorably with attackers because they can't afford to allow you to recur additional threats/pump spells.
That's like comparing Cancel to Forbid because there might be games where you can't use the buyback.
I think his point was valid, that the value of the card depends on how often you can recur it, just as Forbid's value over cancel lies in how often you can buy it back. I'm not sure how valuable the point is though, because really what we need to discover is the threshold where buying it back makes it cube worthy. Is it 75% of games, or 25? What about the threat of recursion? What about the games where is does 12+ extra damage?
The more important point is, I feel, that seemingly small increases in value can severely alter their playability and power level. Shock and Burst Lightning is a great example, but there are many others.
I think the recursion is expensive and conditional. But it adds a ton of value to the card. Hell, it adds all the value to the card. The reason why it's good isn't because it's a better Slaughterhorn. It's good because of the recursion. Red decks have creatures that damage your opponent. So the recursive nature of the card combines with what you're going to be doing with your deck anyways. And like I said above, simply the threat of recursion is what can make this card powerful. It's a very flexible card.
It's also in another colour from Slaughterhorn, who is by no means a dud anyway.
I think the slightly overcosted body, slightly overcosted pump and fairly reasonable recursion add up to a solid card. Red's threes aren't bad by any means, but there aren't that many straight beaters after Phoenix, and this guy at least helps a bit with that role among other tricks. I'm looking forward to trying him.
I'll be testing this in my 360.. If I can find room. Last time I want to add a card to that section, I give up and just don't add the card. But I love combat trick. And this guy is recurring combat trick.
But still. Slaughterhorn is "only" good enough for pauper and maybe peasant. Dont get me wrong I like the shaman, but I try to evaluate by comparing to similar cards.
Eh? Slaughterhorn was a 3-of main board in the deck the took 5th at the SCG Open in Orlando.
Let's look at the stuff he does:
He can be just +3 damage for 2. Worth it.
3 power critter for 3 that can recur. Worth it.
Wierd combo potential with double strike/discard outlets etc.
I can free up a spell slot for this guy or one of my 3 drops. I actually like him more than the phoenix, but they really go well together in the same deck. I like having resiliency in red in case I go up agaist other Aggro and need to torch my own team.
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Alexis isn't on the development team, so this doesn't really make sense.
Given that Slaugterhorn is not that far off from cube playable in a colour with better creatures, I think this is a solid inclusion personally.
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I think it's a pretty lackluster 3cc creature (and unlike seemingly everyone else in this thread, I think red's 3-drops are good). But as a recursive pump spell with an optional 3/1 beater mode, I think it has potential. If I played it, it would more likely be a spell than a creature, because I think that's the more relevant mode more often.
I may not be able to get it in at 450, but I would've been able to find room at 540 for sure.
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I like recursion, and while three mana is really a lot of mana for red, i think the combination of abilities on this card is worth trying out.
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I think he will be good at the block and trade early, 3 power on curve is good for that, than he comes back later whne you get ahead or have some evasion. I might try him over Hell's Thunder.
However, I'm a bit skeptical about the recursion cost.
Combat damage + 3 mana is quite the condition... And if it wasn't for the recursion It's safe to say that the card is under powered for cube.
I desperately want this to be a boom, but my gut tells me its a bust. Worth testing.
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I also really like that he offers some protection for an aggro deck against mana flood, by being deadly once you hit 4R.
Well said. So does he crack the "acceptable 1R spells" slot? There are a lot of good cards in there already. As a spell, he is a smaller Hammer of Bogardan because it costs 1R to boost a creature + recursion is 3. Hammer is direct damage. As a spell, this needs a creature to do MORE damage. You could alternatively play it as a fragile 3/1 creature for 2R. That's not the scariest thing in the cube for 3, but it has potential recursion.
I agree this is not worth comparing to Chandra's Phoenix as the two, while similar, function differently.
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A worse slaughterhorn in a color that has less effecient creatures and worse creature pump.
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I think his point was valid, that the value of the card depends on how often you can recur it, just as Forbid's value over cancel lies in how often you can buy it back. I'm not sure how valuable the point is though, because really what we need to discover is the threshold where buying it back makes it cube worthy. Is it 75% of games, or 25? What about the threat of recursion? What about the games where is does 12+ extra damage?
The more important point is, I feel, that seemingly small increases in value can severely alter their playability and power level. Shock and Burst Lightning is a great example, but there are many others.
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I think the slightly overcosted body, slightly overcosted pump and fairly reasonable recursion add up to a solid card. Red's threes aren't bad by any means, but there aren't that many straight beaters after Phoenix, and this guy at least helps a bit with that role among other tricks. I'm looking forward to trying him.
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Eh? Slaughterhorn was a 3-of main board in the deck the took 5th at the SCG Open in Orlando.
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