Id keep Dig and Fact. And the more I play with Dig the more I'm inclined to say it's better than Fact... but need more Time to make sure it's not Fiction.
The thing I really like about Deep Analysis and FoF over Dig is the graveyard interaction. But I do not have enough play time with Dig yet to say whether the more powerful effect is more useful in my cube than the graveyard synergy.
Speaking of Dig... after time with both Dig and Treasure Cruise... would anyone run cruise over dig?
I like Cruise more than I thought I would, and I've been playing it for a while now. But it's not remotely close to how good Dig is in this format.
My only issue with dig is the UU in the cost so it's not as splashable.
Is dig better for you because it's an instant? Or because digging 7 for 2 is better than just 3 straight off the top? If the later, is that because you tend to be looking for combo pieces / specific cards instead of just gas?
The ability to dig for an answer is just really, really strong. Treasure Cruise is sweet card advantage, but sometimes you draw land-land-creature when what you really want is the board wipe two more cards down.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
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I like Cruise more than I thought I would, and I've been playing it for a while now. But it's not remotely close to how good Dig is in this format.
My only issue with dig is the UU in the cost so it's not as splashable.
Is dig better for you because it's an instant? Or because digging 7 for 2 is better than just 3 straight off the top? If the later, is that because you tend to be looking for combo pieces / specific cards instead of just gas?
Thanks for the feedback.
When the quality of cards in your deck is as high as it is in cube and when you only have 40 cards in your deck--and much less by the time you cast dig--you are seeing such a large portion of your deck at instant speed and choosing the two that you want. It's *extremely* rare for Dig to be a complete miss, but it hasn't been exactly rare for a draw 3 off the top to whiff or only grab 1 good card out of 3. That third card and the single blue cost is not better than instant speed and best 2 out of 7 IMO. Like getting 3 pieces of gas for U plus whatever you exile is great, but customizing which gas you take is way more often better.
Is dig better for you because it's an instant? Or because digging 7 for 2 is better than just 3 straight off the top? If the later, is that because you tend to be looking for combo pieces / specific cards instead of just gas?
It's a bit of both. Being an instant is huge. And in a singleton format especially, drawing 2 of your 7 is better than drawing 3 off the top.
But most importantly, it's the expected value for the cost going into the card. If the card's cost can be cut in half on average, 2UU for Dig Through Time is still ungodly value; the best 4cc draw spell in the game for that cost. Treasure Cruise for 4 mana is a Plea for Power, which nobody plays. Even when the card is slightly behind average in terms of cost, a 3UU Dig is still the best 5cc instant-speed draw spell available. Whereas a 5-mana Cruise is quite bad. Cruise is nutz at U, and Dig is nutz at UU, but those values aren't critical in this format because we're not filled to the gills with bottomless fetches and cantrips. What is critical is how the cards fare in their middle range in terms of cost, and Dig is just leagues better than Cruise in that fight. Cruise is more splashable, so in decks that can never reliably hit UU, it can be a factor, but that only really matters in corner cases where Cruise is like your only blue card in the deck. Usually both cards resolve late enough in the game that decks featuring multiple blue cards don't have an issue with the double-blue on Dig.
Now, assuming Dig doesn't exist to compare Cruise to, the ceiling on Cruise is high enough to warrant play in mid-sized cubes. If you can chop the cost down to 1-3 mana, it's a bonkers card. Almost as bonkers as Dig.
Played my 380 cube with some new people the other day. One drafted Reveillark and questioned why I had that in over Karmic Guide. I didn't have an answer really, because I've never had reveillark be useful. I see that it's included in almost every cube, but it's always just been dead weight. Even when I have several things for it to hit, the restriction on CMC makes it feel underwhelming. What am I missing here?
Played my 380 cube with some new people the other day. One drafted Reveillark and questioned why I had that in over Karmic Guide. I didn't have an answer really, because I've never had reveillark be useful. I see that it's included in almost every cube, but it's always just been dead weight. Even when I have several things for it to hit, the restriction on CMC makes it feel underwhelming. What am I missing here?
Reveillark doesn't have a restriction on CMC, it has a restriction on power.
It's great for getting e.g., mulldrifter, shriekmaw, uktabi orangutan, etc. back for more.
Also, it doesn't trigger when it "dies", it triggers when it "leaves the battlefield", so you can blink or bounce it for multiple activations.
Reveillark is outstanding. You present a 4 power evasive threat that gets two cards back when it's dealt with, representing 3-for-1 card advantage. And it's "leaves play" not "dies" so you still get the triggers upon exile and bounce effects from the opponent (or from yourself if you want to blink it). Hitting power instead of CMC is amazing, because there's a huge number of quality targets to find with it. Not to mention that decks that are intentionally trying to load up the graveyard with sick targets (like Hornet Queen and Kalonian Hydra and Siege-Gang Commander and stuff) can evoke it to get those threats immediately. 'Lark is one of the best white creatures in the entire cube, IMO.
Karmic Guide requires a big proactive target in the 'yard (which can often be hard for white to do by turn 5), and it only gets 1 body back. And then you need to pay echo to keep the main body around, making it a much more difficult card to represent card advantage with. It's a good card if you can abuse it, and good if you have an insane target already in the 'yard in front of casting it. I particularly like it in cubes that support big white reanimation strategies with things like Unburial Rites and some fat white targets. But I don't think it's even in the same league as Reveillark in terms of what it contributes to the cube. 'Lark is just nutter butterz.
Edit: Reveillark ranked in the top 20 for the power rankings in both 2014 and 2015. It actually finished 5 places higher this year than it did last year. Not only is the card great, but it continually gets better as the quality and quantity of good utility targets increases in the cube, and I expect it to continue to play as a top-20 caliber card for quite some time.
I'm probably the biggest Karmic Guide fan on this forum, but I agree that lark is in a whole different league. I'd never cut either personally, but power creep has gotten to where you can easily argue Karmic Guide doesn't belong in tight lists. I don't believe the same can be said for lark.
In fact, if we ever get to where the consensus on this forum is that lark isn't cutting it in cube anymore power-wise, I think we will officially be at a place where I can no longer contribute at all to discussions here (I will be that far removed from where Magic has evolved to as a game).
In fact, if we ever get to where the consensus on this forum is that lark isn't cutting it in cube anymore power-wise, I think we will officially be at a place where I can no longer contribute at all to discussions here (I will be that far removed from where Magic has evolved to as a game).
That would be awesome if we got to that point, because that means the quality of the cards in the cube are that much higher.
I'm probably the biggest Karmic Guide fan on this forum, but I agree that lark is in a whole different league.
I'm a pretty big fan of Karmic Guide too, but I now realize/accept that she's a pet card of mine. When she shines she shines bright, and that's a big part of why I love cube. Having said that, Reveillark is on a different level powerwise -- highly splashable and is capable of savage plays. Especially with Karmic Guide in the 'yard!
I think Karmic Guide is a good Magic card, and I wouldn't call it a "pet" card if I saw it in some else's cube. But I do feel that Reveillark is significantly better, fwiw.
I doubt we will ever get to a point where 'lark isn't cutting it due to the fact that they keep printing insane creatures with 2 or less power. They would need to print a better 'lark for me to cut the current one.
We played Catastrophe for a long time and it didn't play out as awesome for us as it did (does) for other groups. I get the selling points of the card: it's good when you're ahead and when you're behind - being whatever it is you needed when you need it. But to be honest it was almost always cast as a Wrath and seldomly as an Armageddon over here. Though not perfect comparisons, I prefer Parallax Wave, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to Catastrophe. Between these three and the two Wraths and two Geddons, we're pretty well covered.
Cloudgoat Ranger is definitely better than Karmic Guide though! But hey, I'm allowed a pet card or two
I doubt we will ever get to a point where 'lark isn't cutting it due to the fact that they keep printing insane creatures with 2 or less power. They would need to print a better 'lark for me to cut the current one.
Yeah, if anything current 'power creep' is making Reveillark better as it can now return better creatures. We'd need to see the creep start going in a different direction - to a point the default aggro creature is a 3/x for 1 or something ridiculous like that.
Or, as you said, they do something that's better at 'lark'ing than 'Lark.
I doubt we will ever get to a point where 'lark isn't cutting it due to the fact that they keep printing insane creatures with 2 or less power. They would need to print a better 'lark for me to cut the current one.
Yeah, if anything current 'power creep' is making Reveillark better as it can now return better creatures. We'd need to see the creep start going in a different direction - to a point the default aggro creature is a 3/x for 1 or something ridiculous like that.
Or, as you said, they do something that's better at 'lark'ing than 'Lark.
Well, never say never. This all sounds accurate right now. But if you look at old posts, it really isn't that hard to find guys saying "card X is ridiculous, I'd never cut this". And 3 years later, not only are they no longer playing it, you won't even find it in fringe lists anymore.
The game has changed a lot in the last 5 years and there's no reason to think that trend isn't going to continue. Lark is awesome today and it may always be awesome, but there are plenty of cards that garnered equally high praise and are now on the outside looking in.
Well, never say never. This all sounds accurate right now. But if you look at old posts, it really isn't that hard to find guys saying "card X is ridiculous, I'd never cut this". And 3 years later, not only are they no longer playing it, you won't even find it in fringe lists anymore.
The game has changed a lot in the last 5 years and there's no reason to think that trend isn't going to continue. Lark is awesome today and it may always be awesome, but there are plenty of cards that garnered equally high praise and are now on the outside looking in.
I think what makes Reveillark sort of a special case here is that its power is dictated almost entirely by the quality of the cards its interacting with. As a body it's a little overcosted, but most of its power comes from what it recurs. The options for that only get better as power creep continues, thus Reveillark itself continues to creep. The only way to really beat Lark is to make a better one.
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WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
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Dig through time >= Fact of fiction >>>>>>> Deep analysis.
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Speaking of Dig... after time with both Dig and Treasure Cruise... would anyone run cruise over dig?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
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My only issue with dig is the UU in the cost so it's not as splashable.
Is dig better for you because it's an instant? Or because digging 7 for 2 is better than just 3 straight off the top? If the later, is that because you tend to be looking for combo pieces / specific cards instead of just gas?
Thanks for the feedback.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
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UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
When the quality of cards in your deck is as high as it is in cube and when you only have 40 cards in your deck--and much less by the time you cast dig--you are seeing such a large portion of your deck at instant speed and choosing the two that you want. It's *extremely* rare for Dig to be a complete miss, but it hasn't been exactly rare for a draw 3 off the top to whiff or only grab 1 good card out of 3. That third card and the single blue cost is not better than instant speed and best 2 out of 7 IMO. Like getting 3 pieces of gas for U plus whatever you exile is great, but customizing which gas you take is way more often better.
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It's a bit of both. Being an instant is huge. And in a singleton format especially, drawing 2 of your 7 is better than drawing 3 off the top.
But most importantly, it's the expected value for the cost going into the card. If the card's cost can be cut in half on average, 2UU for Dig Through Time is still ungodly value; the best 4cc draw spell in the game for that cost. Treasure Cruise for 4 mana is a Plea for Power, which nobody plays. Even when the card is slightly behind average in terms of cost, a 3UU Dig is still the best 5cc instant-speed draw spell available. Whereas a 5-mana Cruise is quite bad. Cruise is nutz at U, and Dig is nutz at UU, but those values aren't critical in this format because we're not filled to the gills with bottomless fetches and cantrips. What is critical is how the cards fare in their middle range in terms of cost, and Dig is just leagues better than Cruise in that fight. Cruise is more splashable, so in decks that can never reliably hit UU, it can be a factor, but that only really matters in corner cases where Cruise is like your only blue card in the deck. Usually both cards resolve late enough in the game that decks featuring multiple blue cards don't have an issue with the double-blue on Dig.
Now, assuming Dig doesn't exist to compare Cruise to, the ceiling on Cruise is high enough to warrant play in mid-sized cubes. If you can chop the cost down to 1-3 mana, it's a bonkers card. Almost as bonkers as Dig.
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Reveillark doesn't have a restriction on CMC, it has a restriction on power.
It's great for getting e.g., mulldrifter, shriekmaw, uktabi orangutan, etc. back for more.
Also, it doesn't trigger when it "dies", it triggers when it "leaves the battlefield", so you can blink or bounce it for multiple activations.
Karmic Guide requires a big proactive target in the 'yard (which can often be hard for white to do by turn 5), and it only gets 1 body back. And then you need to pay echo to keep the main body around, making it a much more difficult card to represent card advantage with. It's a good card if you can abuse it, and good if you have an insane target already in the 'yard in front of casting it. I particularly like it in cubes that support big white reanimation strategies with things like Unburial Rites and some fat white targets. But I don't think it's even in the same league as Reveillark in terms of what it contributes to the cube. 'Lark is just nutter butterz.
Edit: Reveillark ranked in the top 20 for the power rankings in both 2014 and 2015. It actually finished 5 places higher this year than it did last year. Not only is the card great, but it continually gets better as the quality and quantity of good utility targets increases in the cube, and I expect it to continue to play as a top-20 caliber card for quite some time.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
In fact, if we ever get to where the consensus on this forum is that lark isn't cutting it in cube anymore power-wise, I think we will officially be at a place where I can no longer contribute at all to discussions here (I will be that far removed from where Magic has evolved to as a game).
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
That would be awesome if we got to that point, because that means the quality of the cards in the cube are that much higher.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Cloudgoat Ranger is definitely better than Karmic Guide though! But hey, I'm allowed a pet card or two
Yeah, if anything current 'power creep' is making Reveillark better as it can now return better creatures. We'd need to see the creep start going in a different direction - to a point the default aggro creature is a 3/x for 1 or something ridiculous like that.
Or, as you said, they do something that's better at 'lark'ing than 'Lark.
Well, never say never. This all sounds accurate right now. But if you look at old posts, it really isn't that hard to find guys saying "card X is ridiculous, I'd never cut this". And 3 years later, not only are they no longer playing it, you won't even find it in fringe lists anymore.
The game has changed a lot in the last 5 years and there's no reason to think that trend isn't going to continue. Lark is awesome today and it may always be awesome, but there are plenty of cards that garnered equally high praise and are now on the outside looking in.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I think what makes Reveillark sort of a special case here is that its power is dictated almost entirely by the quality of the cards its interacting with. As a body it's a little overcosted, but most of its power comes from what it recurs. The options for that only get better as power creep continues, thus Reveillark itself continues to creep. The only way to really beat Lark is to make a better one.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR