I prefer the Charm and the Duplicate, simply because the effects are more unique given the quantity of 3cc card-advantage burn available in red now. And if your X/ur decks support graveyard shenanigans (like the artifact.dec or Grixis reanimator for example) both the clone effect and Charm's discard ability gain value. But strangely, Electrolyze has the highest raw powerlevel, so I think it just depends on the role that UR plays in your cube.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Another vote for Izzet Charm. Every mode is useful and reasonably costed, and to have all on one card is insane. I like it better than Electrolyze and Fire//Ice.
I also like Fire//Ice better than Electrolyze because it has slightly more utility (surprising how relevant the tap/draw a card effect can be), although I don't think they are too far off from one another.
Charm and Duplicate would be my picks too. I would play Electrolyze over Fire // Ice though.
I include all of them in my 720
I run 7 multicolor and 2 hybrid/dualmode/2-color-flashback cards in each guild section. It is more than most people run, but it hasn't been a problem so far.
I would rank them like this as well, but for me 1 and 2 are well above 3 and 4, and 3 and 4 are fairly interchangeable depending on what your cube looks like and what kind of green decks are getting drafted.
Is Pelakka Wurm really good enough in cube? I play only the top 2 of these (other 6+mana green drops I run are: Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Foe-Razer Regent, Woodfall Primus, Genesis Hydra).
I could consider to include Craterhoof for token decks as a late game finisher.
Pelakka Wurm is a 7/7 trampler for 7. That's already decent. Then you get 7 life when it ETB and get to draw a card when it dies. There are times that card is better than the other three listed above. Craterhoof is retardedly good in a ramp style and/or token deck, but it's crap in reanimator/sneak attack/NO decks. So that's an arch type support card. Do you need more incentive of the elf ramp or token ramp decks? Or are you looking for a more universally playable fatty? Avenger is more combo friendly. Terastadon is super versatile and is a skill testing card. He's probably my favorite of those listed.
Each card has board states and decks where they shine, that is why every person is posting a different order. They are all high powered cards and depending on what your players tend to build and how your meta plays, that will really determine which of these guys deserves a spot. I recommend you try all of them and see which you end up valuing most.
I'll be putting in Craterhoof for this weekend's drafts (friend kind enough to loan me one) as a green fatty placeholder of sorts. I'll keep track of it and see whether or not it would have done better as one of the other three guys. Got a weekend full of cubing lined up so I'm sure I'll get some useful information out. Thanks everyone!
Pelakka Wurm is a 7/7 trampler for 7. That's already decent. Then you get 7 life when it ETB and get to draw a card when it dies. There are times that card is better than the other three listed above. Craterhoof is retardedly good in a ramp style and/or token deck, but it's crap in reanimator/sneak attack/NO decks. So that's an arch type support card. Do you need more incentive of the elf ramp or token ramp decks? Or are you looking for a more universally playable fatty? Avenger is more combo friendly. Terastadon is super versatile and is a skill testing card. He's probably my favorite of those listed.
Each card has board states and decks where they shine, that is why every person is posting a different order. They are all high powered cards and depending on what your players tend to build and how your meta plays, that will really determine which of these guys deserves a spot. I recommend you try all of them and see which you end up valuing most.
I found out Craterhoof is pretty bad in ramp decks, as many times you need to use your mana elves to cast it and they cannot attack in that same turn. Not to mention it is abysmal after mass removals, or on other creature-light boards and does nearly nothing at all to protect you if you cannot kill in one hit. It costs too much to be such a situational card.
Pelakka Wurm is a 7/7 trampler for 7. That's already decent. Then you get 7 life when it ETB and get to draw a card when it dies. There are times that card is better than the other three listed above. Craterhoof is retardedly good in a ramp style and/or token deck, but it's crap in reanimator/sneak attack/NO decks. So that's an arch type support card. Do you need more incentive of the elf ramp or token ramp decks? Or are you looking for a more universally playable fatty? Avenger is more combo friendly. Terastadon is super versatile and is a skill testing card. He's probably my favorite of those listed.
Each card has board states and decks where they shine, that is why every person is posting a different order. They are all high powered cards and depending on what your players tend to build and how your meta plays, that will really determine which of these guys deserves a spot. I recommend you try all of them and see which you end up valuing most.
I think your arguments show that Pelakka Wurm is also an archetype support card - just for ramp/reanimate/cheat-into-play decks instead. I guess maybe it's good in more decks than Craterhoof.
Yeah, the Wurm is sweet. His newest best friend is Feldon of the Third path. hasty 7/7 trampler, gain 7 life and draw a card each turn for 3 is pretty good.
Yeah, I am also a fan of the wurm more than the others because its the best in the most decks and in the most situations. The others have a lot more potential but the fact that you can just play the wurm in a ramp deck or get it out early and do more than the other options gives it a leg up. As for the Don, we might just be super dumb here but most situations you don't want to cast three copies of Beast Within. Sure, there is an optimal way to play it in each situation, but not figuring out the correct line of play in those situations leads to bad feelings or in some situations there is no good way to play the card. Either I don't want to give up my own resources for the sake of a few 3/3s or I don't want the other person to have any 3/3s in exchange for destroying something. There are tons of situations where you can end up ahead after playing it but it didn't end up happening enough for us.
Yeah, I am also a fan of the wurm more than the others because its the best in the most decks and in the most situations. The others have a lot more potential but the fact that you can just play the wurm in a ramp deck or get it out early and do more than the other options gives it a leg up. As for the Don, we might just be super dumb here but most situations you don't want to cast three copies of Beast Within. Sure, there is an optimal way to play it in each situation, but not figuring out the correct line of play in those situations leads to bad feelings or in some situations there is no good way to play the card. Either I don't want to give up my own resources for the sake of a few 3/3s or I don't want the other person to have any 3/3s in exchange for destroying something. There are tons of situations where you can end up ahead after playing it but it didn't end up happening enough for us.
You can choose not to destroy anything. It is a 'may' effect.
Looking to keep the 1 best "expensive" red critter. The cube will only have 1 expensive Red creature. Ought to be hard-castable, but worth being reanimated. My gut tells me this is 5cc or 6cc...I think. Please recommend a better one if not listed
Modern: Jund
- Izzet Charm
- Electrolyze
- Dack's Duplicate
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Charm and Duplicate.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My hunch is that I should probably ditch Fire//Ice for Duplicate, yeah?
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
I play Izzet Charm, Dack Fayden, Dack's Duplicate and Ral Zarek as my 4 Izzet cards.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I also like Fire//Ice better than Electrolyze because it has slightly more utility (surprising how relevant the tap/draw a card effect can be), although I don't think they are too far off from one another.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I include all of them in my 720
I run 7 multicolor and 2 hybrid/dualmode/2-color-flashback cards in each guild section. It is more than most people run, but it hasn't been a problem so far.
Craterhoof Behemoth, Terastodon, Avenger of Zendikar, Pelakka Wurm
Edit: the more I look at Craterhoof the more I'm convinced he's the best... maybe even better than Woodfall
2. Terastodon
3. Avenger of Zendikar // Craterhoof Behemoth
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This is the order I would put them in too.
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This is probably my ranking for these 4 cards too.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I would rank them like this as well, but for me 1 and 2 are well above 3 and 4, and 3 and 4 are fairly interchangeable depending on what your cube looks like and what kind of green decks are getting drafted.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Avenger of Zendikar
Terastodon
Pelakka Wurm
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Avenger of Zendikar
Pelakka Wurm
Craterhoof Behemoth
I've actually played them all at one point or another in my large cube, but I currently only play the top three.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Terastodon
Avenger of Zendikar
Craterhoof Behemoth
Pelakka Wurm
Is Pelakka Wurm really good enough in cube? I play only the top 2 of these (other 6+mana green drops I run are: Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Foe-Razer Regent, Woodfall Primus, Genesis Hydra).
I could consider to include Craterhoof for token decks as a late game finisher.
Each card has board states and decks where they shine, that is why every person is posting a different order. They are all high powered cards and depending on what your players tend to build and how your meta plays, that will really determine which of these guys deserves a spot. I recommend you try all of them and see which you end up valuing most.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I found out Craterhoof is pretty bad in ramp decks, as many times you need to use your mana elves to cast it and they cannot attack in that same turn. Not to mention it is abysmal after mass removals, or on other creature-light boards and does nearly nothing at all to protect you if you cannot kill in one hit. It costs too much to be such a situational card.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I think your arguments show that Pelakka Wurm is also an archetype support card - just for ramp/reanimate/cheat-into-play decks instead. I guess maybe it's good in more decks than Craterhoof.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
You can choose not to destroy anything. It is a 'may' effect.
Inferno Titan (my hunch)
Thundermaw Hellkite
Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker
Flameblast Dragon *
Bogarden Hellkite *
* (I see in my notes this used to be cubed, but I don't see it in any current lists)
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass