We do run Edric, Kiora and Sagu Mauler. Shardless is not in my budget.
I could try Snake or Trygon in that spot, but which do you prefer: Coiling Oracle or Temporal Spring?
I'd run the Oracle. It's classic along side its bounce land buddies (and all ETB tapped lands) and, though I love the effect, I always found Spring to be on the outside looking in against the other three drops in my Simic decks. With that said, I don't know if I'd ever cube without the Trygon...
Champion of the Parish or Silverblade Paladin? I'm up to 60 Humans in my cube, so I'm considering putting Champion in, but I don't want to cut any of my 1 or 2 drops. I guess the real question is if others have strong feelings about Silverblade Paladin as a potential cut, as my experience with it has not really made me feel strongly about it one way or the other.
Champion of the Parish is a very powerful one drop with the right human count. 6 humans besides the Champion in the deck with a converted mana cost of 1 or 2 makes it pretty reasonable; about two thirds of the starting hands have one other human. By turn two you have a human to play in three out of four games (give or take 2% depending on whether you are on the play or on the draw). In more than one thirds of the games you draw at least two humans by turn three on the play, and that does not even take into account that you may have additional humans at 3 mana. Expectet Power with 6 other humans at 1 or 2 cc: turn two on the play 1.72, turn two on the draw 1.77, turn three on the play 2.12, turn three on the draw 2.24.
Looking for help cutting down my multicoloured section. I want to cut 1 card from each guild. I have one in mind for each, but I would like to get some other opinions on the cuts as well. The cards in bold are the ones I was considering for the cut.
My cuts:
Revelation or Venser depending on what WU does in your cube
Countersquall then cut Oona for [card]Psychatog[/card}
Hellsteed then cut Return for Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. You will need to add Kolagahn's Command after DoK drops.
Behemoth and I'd change up your Gruul section a lot.
Grove
Sculler
Charm but you need Pulse, Deed, and Troll in here
Evolution. Snake is my favorite of those cards.
Probably Turn//Burn but maybe Keranos
Palm and Iroas to add Ajani Vengeant
Venser or Revelation. Probably Venser. Definitely not Sphere.
Tar Pit and Strix are amazing. All the other 4 cards are cuttable. Probably axe the 3-power Silumgar first.
Carnival Hellsteed or Rakdos's Return. The Hellsteed should go first.
Behemoth, Defiance or Fanatic. All are good cuts.
Grove is the best cut here.
I'd cut Mortify, Sculler or Rites before Verdict.
Charm or Deathdealer, probably Charm first.
Urban Evolution and Kiora's Follower are both easily cuttable.
Yes, Turn//Burn is the cut for Izzet.
Palm and Iroas are both very cuttable.
Wow. Those three look very overcosted for their effects. I'd choose Skinthinner because removal is removal and it's still a relatively efficient body when cast the normal way (at least compared to the other two), but 3+5 is still much for a 2/1 and a Dark Banishing.
Looking for help cutting down my multicoloured section. I want to cut 1 card from each guild. I have one in mind for each, but I would like to get some other opinions on the cuts as well. The cards in bold are the ones I was considering for the cut.
For token support, Jazal Goldmane has been pretty good for us. I'd test Secure the Wastes, but if that doesn't work out Geist-Honored Monk was decent as a placeholder in my cube for quite a while until I got some of the better 5-drops. Master of Pearls was way too clunky when I tested it, and I had high enough hopes for Wingmate Roc to cut CGR for it but the Raid triggers were way too unreliable.
Now for my question - cut one of the following Gruul, Simic, or Izzet cards to make room to test Sarkhan Unbroken:
Definitely not Repeal, so Ancestral Vision. But if you want a bounce effect, I notice you're not running Into the Roil or Cyclonic Rift which are both great.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I was halfway done writing a reply stating that I would not play either in a small or medium sized Cube, but then I realized that this is not in fact true. As is often the case with what I refer to as "Modern Cube Design", you can select from a variety of cards that do similar things and pick the one(s) that best support(s) the archetypes you want to support.
For combo decks, especially in a powered Cube, Repeal is a very good bounce spell. For tempo decks not so much, because too often you will not be able to cast if for cheap to get another attack in.
Ancestral Vision is a very slow card, so it is not well suited for a fast Cube. On the other hand, it can be very good in a slower Cube. It is much more valuable if turn one is not the only turn you are happy to suspend it.
So I guess I can't really give a general answer to the Ancestral Vision vs. Repeal question.
Technically, Repeal is better on average than Into the Roil in my cube, because my ACMC is under 3.0 (meaning that the average card will cost U to 3U to bounce with draw rather than 2UU). And it has a higher ceiling when you're killing tokens and stuff for one mana and drawing cards. But there are windows where you simply need to bounce high-CMC permanents early in the game, and it's nice to have that option available from ItR that Repeal doesn't have. So I'd wager that ItR is better than Repeal because of that function. Regardless, I think both are better than Ancestral Vision.
I have a love/hate relationship with Into the Roil and Repeal. I miss them when they're gone, but they feel expendable when I'm looking for cuts...
Now that we're discussing Ancestral Vision, I'd like to hear some general thoughts on Ancestral Vision vs. Treasure Cruise. Because I made the experience that even in a Cube without power or fast mana, it can be really hard to find a spot to cast AV after turn one. Turn one is easy, many blue decks don't have anything to cast anyway. After turn one though, I find it really hard to find that single U for quite a few turns in some match-ups (especially all aggressive decks and green ramp).
I don't have experience with Treasure Cruise in Cube, but it seems to me to be similar in a way but much better suited to the situations my blue decks encounter.
Now that we're discussing Ancestral Vision, I'd like to hear some general thoughts on Ancestral Vision vs. Treasure Cruise. Because I made the experience that even in a Cube without power or fast mana, it can be really hard to find a spot to cast AV after turn one. Turn one is easy, many blue decks don't have anything to cast anyway. After turn one though, I find it really hard to find that single U for quite a few turns in some match-ups (especially all aggressive decks and green ramp).
I don't have experience with Treasure Cruise in Cube, but it seems to me to be similar in a way but much better suited to the situations my blue decks encounter.
Visions is much better in your opening hand, cruise is a much better late game topdeck, both are pretty miserable to draw on turns 3-5 (cruise is obviously better as you can just cast if for 5 or 6 if you have to). After playing a lot with dig, and having it be great but an average of probably 4.5 mana on turns 5+ when it's being cast, my assumption on cruise is that it's not better than tidings, concentrate, or even amass the components the majority of the time, and we aren't cubing with any of those. Of course, there are going to be times where your matchup has been incredibly grindy, your both in topdeck mode with full yards and you draw cruise, cast actual recall and then get to play two more spells in the same turn while your opponent cries. That doesn't happen often, though, and most cube games seem to end before t7 in our cube.
Visions, on the other hand, has a somewhat easier to hit BCS, which is where you have it in your opening hand. So, in approximately 18% of games, visions is great, it refills your hand for free right when you are probably starting to run out of gas. Of course, it's an absolutely miserable top deck at any point after t3 or 4, and much worse than cruise by that time in the game.
In the end, if I had to pick one i think I'd pick visions, but I think I wouldn't play either at 450. I actually think I would run impulse over either since it's an instant if you are worried about finding a time to cast the spell. I think i'd also run compulsive research over cruise or visions if you want another draw three.
I'd run the Oracle. It's classic along side its bounce land buddies (and all ETB tapped lands) and, though I love the effect, I always found Spring to be on the outside looking in against the other three drops in my Simic decks. With that said, I don't know if I'd ever cube without the Trygon...
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
Champion of the Parish or Silverblade Paladin? I'm up to 60 Humans in my cube, so I'm considering putting Champion in, but I don't want to cut any of my 1 or 2 drops. I guess the real question is if others have strong feelings about Silverblade Paladin as a potential cut, as my experience with it has not really made me feel strongly about it one way or the other.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Champion of the Parish is a very powerful one drop with the right human count. 6 humans besides the Champion in the deck with a converted mana cost of 1 or 2 makes it pretty reasonable; about two thirds of the starting hands have one other human. By turn two you have a human to play in three out of four games (give or take 2% depending on whether you are on the play or on the draw). In more than one thirds of the games you draw at least two humans by turn three on the play, and that does not even take into account that you may have additional humans at 3 mana. Expectet Power with 6 other humans at 1 or 2 cc: turn two on the play 1.72, turn two on the draw 1.77, turn three on the play 2.12, turn three on the draw 2.24.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
Detention Sphere (tough cut from that section)
Countersquall
Carnival Hellsteed
Clan Defiance
Grove of the Guardian
Gerrard's Verdict
Golgari Charm
Urban Evolution (though I would play Sagu Mauler over SSS)
Keranos, God of Storms
Deflecting Palm
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Revelation or Venser depending on what WU does in your cube
Countersquall then cut Oona for [card]Psychatog[/card}
Hellsteed then cut Return for Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. You will need to add Kolagahn's Command after DoK drops.
Behemoth and I'd change up your Gruul section a lot.
Grove
Sculler
Charm but you need Pulse, Deed, and Troll in here
Evolution. Snake is my favorite of those cards.
Probably Turn//Burn but maybe Keranos
Palm and Iroas to add Ajani Vengeant
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Tar Pit and Strix are amazing. All the other 4 cards are cuttable. Probably axe the 3-power Silumgar first.
Carnival Hellsteed or Rakdos's Return. The Hellsteed should go first.
Behemoth, Defiance or Fanatic. All are good cuts.
Grove is the best cut here.
I'd cut Mortify, Sculler or Rites before Verdict.
Charm or Deathdealer, probably Charm first.
Urban Evolution and Kiora's Follower are both easily cuttable.
Yes, Turn//Burn is the cut for Izzet.
Palm and Iroas are both very cuttable.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Those are my suggestions for possible cuts.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Wow. Those three look very overcosted for their effects. I'd choose Skinthinner because removal is removal and it's still a relatively efficient body when cast the normal way (at least compared to the other two), but 3+5 is still much for a 2/1 and a Dark Banishing.
EDIT:
Ah, this one looks better. Exterminator, then.
My cuts
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Ancestral Vision or Repeal?
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Black has at least 4 better morph cards than these if you're looking for that effect...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Sarkhan Unbroken vs. Savage Knuckleblade
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
I'm already running the usual suspects for tokens (mentor, procession, cloudgoat, elspeth 1 and 3, anthem and spear, and so on).
For Master of Peerls, I'm running two other morphers in white, two in red and in blue, and four in black and green currently, plus Sagu Mauler.
Sarkhan, hands down.
Now for my question - cut one of the following Gruul, Simic, or Izzet cards to make room to test Sarkhan Unbroken:
Sarkhan Vol
Trygon Predator
Mystic Snake
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Izzet Charm
Dack's Duplicate
Ral Zarek
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
One of my own: Repeal or Ancestral Vision?
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
For combo decks, especially in a powered Cube, Repeal is a very good bounce spell. For tempo decks not so much, because too often you will not be able to cast if for cheap to get another attack in.
Ancestral Vision is a very slow card, so it is not well suited for a fast Cube. On the other hand, it can be very good in a slower Cube. It is much more valuable if turn one is not the only turn you are happy to suspend it.
So I guess I can't really give a general answer to the Ancestral Vision vs. Repeal question.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I have a love/hate relationship with Into the Roil and Repeal. I miss them when they're gone, but they feel expendable when I'm looking for cuts...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I don't have experience with Treasure Cruise in Cube, but it seems to me to be similar in a way but much better suited to the situations my blue decks encounter.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I'd probably bring back Repeal before Ancestral Vision but I wouldn't be jazzed about cubing either one.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Visions is much better in your opening hand, cruise is a much better late game topdeck, both are pretty miserable to draw on turns 3-5 (cruise is obviously better as you can just cast if for 5 or 6 if you have to). After playing a lot with dig, and having it be great but an average of probably 4.5 mana on turns 5+ when it's being cast, my assumption on cruise is that it's not better than tidings, concentrate, or even amass the components the majority of the time, and we aren't cubing with any of those. Of course, there are going to be times where your matchup has been incredibly grindy, your both in topdeck mode with full yards and you draw cruise, cast actual recall and then get to play two more spells in the same turn while your opponent cries. That doesn't happen often, though, and most cube games seem to end before t7 in our cube.
Visions, on the other hand, has a somewhat easier to hit BCS, which is where you have it in your opening hand. So, in approximately 18% of games, visions is great, it refills your hand for free right when you are probably starting to run out of gas. Of course, it's an absolutely miserable top deck at any point after t3 or 4, and much worse than cruise by that time in the game.
In the end, if I had to pick one i think I'd pick visions, but I think I wouldn't play either at 450. I actually think I would run impulse over either since it's an instant if you are worried about finding a time to cast the spell. I think i'd also run compulsive research over cruise or visions if you want another draw three.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588