Play a 360 cube, or play whatever appeals the most to you. They're all 360 quality counterspells, and it'll just boil down to personal preference and what kinds of decks you guys plan on playing. For traditional control, the hard counters are going to be better. For tempo decks, the taxing counters and tempo counters are going to be stronger. Play a mix of both and play whichever ones you like the most. There's no clear better or worse with this particular suite of cards.
A lot of 360 material right now comes to how you want to build your cube and how you want it to be play, I feels. That's what I like about it right now.
I'd cut Zone, Harmonize, Satyr. I like having both Cultivate and Kodama's, but if you think the redundancy is not needed one of them can go, keeping the Satyr or Harmonize.
I like the Hydra too much, even more with the green Curse you're now including.
I agree with the proposed cuts, but I don't like Wild Dogs very much and don't think that it is necessary at 450 cards.
I'm the most on the fence with Wild Dogs. Though with the initial thought of cutting Harmonize, Awakening Zone and Boon Satyr, the cards are already dead in my mind. So now I'm dealing with what I'd rather try as an alternative in those slots.
I think Wild Dogs is just fine, but after squeezing in a couple of hybrid 2-power 1-drops in green, I often find it missing the final 40, even in hard aggro decks. I'm experimenting with the aggro section with him missing for a while, and watch to see if the deck suffers because of it.
You don't need a full bench for green, because it's always a support color. So even just adding in 1-2 more 1-drops from green to the suite you drafted from your other color helps to reach the mass of aggro beaters you need.
I think the quality/density of your aggro mana fixing really affects this decision. When we added our second set of fetches, greens impact on aggro became immense. As stated, it is rarely a main color, so you need to be able to splash it into two color decks, while at the same time having access to G turn one (and occasionally GG turn two) in two color decks.
Also, if you run non booster/roto drafts (winston, solomon, etc), green aggro becomes almost a neccessity in cubes larger than 360.
1-Mana Black Discard Spells by Number of Targets in My Cube
Thoughtseize – 330 (lose 2 life)
Inquistion of Kozilek – 231
Despise – 178
Duress – 138
Appetite for Brains – 99 (exiles)
So obviously Thoughtseize and Inqusition of Kozilek are the top 2.
But does this mean that I ought to be running Despise over Duress? Or does black’s ease in dealing with creatures outweigh the 40 fewer targets?
I'm thinking Appetite is no good here. Exiling is a bit double-edged (you can Thoughtseize yourself to throw a fattie in the ‘yard. Not so much here.) and far fewer targets.
Is that all the targeted 1-mana discard that exists? I’m thinking of running the top 4 on this list though. Make sense?
I actually think Duress is the second best because it hits high priority targets that IoK can't: Armageddon, Cryptic Command, Elspeth(s), Garruk(s), Upheaval, Plow Under, Ajani(s), Sneak Attack, etc. IoK is great, no question; I think Duress is even better.
Despise has two issues: One, black already deals with creatures pretty easily; two, there aren't really enough 'walkers to make a big difference compared to Duress and IoK. That said, I think it's fine for large cubes.
I'd run Thoughtseize and Duress at every cube size, and try to et Inquisition in even at 360. I don't play Despise at 450, and I don't think I'd play it at 540 either.
Thoughtseize and Duress are definetly the best 1 mana discard spells. The number of targets isn't the only relevant factor, but also the power level of the applicable targets. So, Duress surpasses both Inquisition of Kozilek and Despise, even though those have more targets.
I still can't decide if I like Inquisition or Despise more. Hitting planeswalkers and large creatures with powerful etb/ltb effects is very potent.
Appetite for Brains hits many powerful cards, but it also has the highest chance to miss entirely. This makes is #5 of this list.
Thoughtseize > Duress > IoK, but IMO all three are needed at 360. Firstly, targeted discard is unique to black (and thus not an effect that can be obtained just anywhere in the cube) and it is an inherently very strong ability, which is particularly pushed on these cards so they aren't being included merely to make up the numbers, like a Stone Rain. Secondly, one of black's weaknesses is the inability to deal with certain artifacts and enchantments, and these circumvent that very neatly and elegantly. They are also the most efficient way to deal with Planeswalkers. Lastly, it gives B/W, B/G or B/R aggro a preemptive answer to sweepers that those decks don't otherwise have. I would also cube a functional Duress or Thoughtseize reprint in addition to those three and have toyed with the idea of Cabal Therapy.
Maybe Legion Loyalist or Spikeshot Elder. I just removed Waif from my cube because it was consistently a disappointment. If your average cube deck does stuff on the first few turns of the game, I don't think it'll play very well for you. But the activation cost on Elder is kinda high and really needs a lot of power boosters to be worthwhile, and Loyalist was too often just a Raging Goblin. But I suppose both of those options are better than Mons's Goblin Raiders, which is what Reckless Waif was the vast majority of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of times it transformed immediately, and I've been playing it for a long time. So glad to finally cut it.
Yes and no. If you're at or close to your critical mass of aggro 1-drops, yes. A non 1-drop that's of a higher quality will be more beneficial. But if you're short on T1 aggression, even a less than optimal 1-drop is better than no pressure at all (unless it's completely unplayable garbage, which none of those three are).
Very true. Not all 1-drops qualify. I think those can, depending on the lists they go into, but you're right. Just because it costs 1 mana doesn't mean it's a good substitute for a 2-power 1-drop.
Listing first cut first, second cut second
1st Supreme verdict
2nd detention sphere
1st disciple of deceipt
2nd shadowmage infiltrator
1st terminate
2nd dreadbore (unsure about this)
1st xenagos
2nd Sarkhan vol
1st Armada wurm
2nd voice of resurgence
1st Sorin
2nd Vindicate
1st Steam augry
2nd Izzet charm
1st Pernicious deed
2nd abrupt decay
1st boros charm
2nd Ajani Vengeant (not a power level decision)
1st Trygon predator
2nd Kiora, The crashing wave
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
1) Condescend
2) Trinket mage NOT EVEN CLOSE AT ALL IF POWERED
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
So I would ask the following question: In what order of priority you would place these: Force Spike vs Mana Leak vs Condescend vs Counterspell vs Remand vs Cryptic Command vs Force of Will?
play tmb blue spells with the following:
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Control Magic
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Treachery
1 Upheaval
1 Time Spiral
Thank you!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
In trying to decide on a cut, I've got a couple of ideas but I have a hard time nailing it down and could use some help.
Possible cuts:
Here's the rest of my cube if you'd like to take a look at my green section. Thanks
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
I like the Hydra too much, even more with the green Curse you're now including.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Also, if you run non booster/roto drafts (winston, solomon, etc), green aggro becomes almost a neccessity in cubes larger than 360.
Thoughtseize – 330 (lose 2 life)
Inquistion of Kozilek – 231
Despise – 178
Duress – 138
Appetite for Brains – 99 (exiles)
So obviously Thoughtseize and Inqusition of Kozilek are the top 2.
But does this mean that I ought to be running Despise over Duress? Or does black’s ease in dealing with creatures outweigh the 40 fewer targets?
I'm thinking Appetite is no good here. Exiling is a bit double-edged (you can Thoughtseize yourself to throw a fattie in the ‘yard. Not so much here.) and far fewer targets.
Is that all the targeted 1-mana discard that exists? I’m thinking of running the top 4 on this list though. Make sense?
Despise has two issues: One, black already deals with creatures pretty easily; two, there aren't really enough 'walkers to make a big difference compared to Duress and IoK. That said, I think it's fine for large cubes.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I still can't decide if I like Inquisition or Despise more. Hitting planeswalkers and large creatures with powerful etb/ltb effects is very potent.
Appetite for Brains hits many powerful cards, but it also has the highest chance to miss entirely. This makes is #5 of this list.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'd also appreciate hearing the reasoning behind your choice. Thanks!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
1 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Manic Vandal
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Yawgmoth's Will
What do you all think?
Draft it on Cube Tutor
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963