With the increase in removal/interaction efficiency (often costing 1 or 2 mana), I have a really tough time 5+ mana cards that don't do anything when you cast/they etb. So easy Warchief for me.
In a 360 powered Cube that supports reanimator (and contains current reanimate targets Inkwell Leviathan, Grave Titan, five 6+ mana value green cards, Atarka, Battlesphere, Wurmcoil, Sphinx of the Steel Wind & Sundering Titan):
1) Run both Griselbrand & Archon of Cruelty
OR
2) Only run one of them & add another midrange black creature
BONUS This or That:
If only running one...which one? Griselbrand/Archon of Cruelty
In a 360 powered Cube that supports reanimator (and contains current reanimate targets Inkwell Leviathan, Grave Titan, five 6+ mana value green cards, Atarka, Battlesphere, Wurmcoil, Sphinx of the Steel Wind & Sundering Titan):
1) Run both Griselbrand & Archon of Cruelty
OR
2) Only run one of them & add another midrange black creature
BONUS This or That:
If only running one...which one? Griselbrand/Archon of Cruelty
Thanks!
I would definitely run both. I feel like these are the two best reanimator payoffs, so I'd always run them if reanimator is supported, even at 360.
Griselbrand is better though, so if only running one, Griselbrand.
Agree with Morphling. They're both too good to not run it just sucks how much of a pinch there is on black slots at 360. Fwiw I think Inkwell doesn't cut it in 360 powered anymore. And I agree Griselbrand is the best. Archon is close but griselbrand being able to draw you into a second reanimation/sneak attack right away is too good.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Drake >>>>>>>> Watcher (assuming price is no object).
Also Sakura-Tribe Elder is outstanding. I put Kodama's Reach/Cultivate on the same level as Farseek. Maybe a tiny bit ahead as green wants LOTS of mana.
Drake >>>>>>>> Watcher (assuming price is no object).
Also Sakura-Tribe Elder is outstanding. I put Kodama's Reach/Cultivate on the same level as Farseek. Maybe a tiny bit ahead as green wants LOTS of mana.
I've been thinking about this in my own cube, and I think I've come up with the answer for me.
Barbed Spike > Crowbar > Ancestral Blade
A Stormfront Pegasus is just a much better creature than a Grizzly Bears, so Barbed Spike wins imo. I'd put Crowbar as #1 if it didn't have to tap to sac itself, but needing to wait a turn to deal with an artifact/enchantment hurts too much I think. I think the utility of being able to hit artifacts/enchantments does make it better than Ancestral Blade's lower equip cost, though.
The Gargaroth/Warchief discussion is interesting. Ignoring for a second that Thragtusk exists and you might not want that redundancy with Warchief, out of all the creatures that cost a lot of mana but don't have an ETB effect or other removal protection, Gargaroth is about the best one. If it is removed you are 1-for-1 and out some tempo, but also, you have to remove it within one turn cycle; you can't attack into it, and you can't allow it to attack since it churns out so much value. It's fun to have some creatures like that which are a bit more higher risk and higher reward rather than every creature having its value strapped to ETB, and something I'm trying to move towards in my cube environment.
As it stands I'll be making room for Warchief but definitely not cutting Gargaroth.
Tainted Indulgence > Master of Death // Master is a really nice efficient threat or signpost card for blue aggro, but the issue is there are quite a few U/B/x decks that won't run it
Poppet Stitcher > Cloudkin Seer // Seer is very uninteresting. Poppet Stitcher is a creative token generator with some cool interactions with cards like Bitterblossom, and also support for spellsmatter.dec albeit making really bad tokens
Sea Gate Stormcaller > Gilded Drake // Drake would be the pick if you run all the shenanigans from constructed formats, but it's lackluster as a generic value pick I feel. I haven't run Stormcaller, but it looks decent enough for duplicating cheap cantrips or burn.
The Gargaroth/Warchief discussion is interesting. Ignoring for a second that Thragtusk exists and you might not want that redundancy with Warchief, out of all the creatures that cost a lot of mana but don't have an ETB effect or other removal protection, Gargaroth is about the best one. If it is removed you are 1-for-1 and out some tempo, but also, you have to remove it within one turn cycle; you can't attack into it, and you can't allow it to attack since it churns out so much value. It's fun to have some creatures like that which are a bit more higher risk and higher reward rather than every creature having its value strapped to ETB, and something I'm trying to move towards in my cube environment.
This 1000%. I even try to cater my removal suite to be a little worse against top end creatures that don't have built in protection.
I'd rather have a higher density of - sweepers that sweep cheap creatures/tokens, dismember, abrupt decay or portable hole that are cheap, effecient, but have their limitations. OR modal cards like bloodchief's thirst that pay an extra tax.
The available card pool doesn't provide me the luxury to tune my removal suite that much, but it's something I keep in mind on the fringes.
Ideally, i'd like to make sure that the very best 'baneslayer' type cards (high risk v high return) are at least a solid playable in cube.
They'll be rare, but still have a place.
The Gargaroth/Warchief discussion is interesting. Ignoring for a second that Thragtusk exists and you might not want that redundancy with Warchief, out of all the creatures that cost a lot of mana but don't have an ETB effect or other removal protection, Gargaroth is about the best one. If it is removed you are 1-for-1 and out some tempo, but also, you have to remove it within one turn cycle; you can't attack into it, and you can't allow it to attack since it churns out so much value. It's fun to have some creatures like that which are a bit more higher risk and higher reward rather than every creature having its value strapped to ETB, and something I'm trying to move towards in my cube environment.
This 1000%. I even try to cater my removal suite to be a little worse against top end creatures that don't have built in protection.
I'd rather have a higher density of - sweepers that sweep cheap creatures/tokens, dismember, abrupt decay or portable hole that are cheap, effecient, but have their limitations. OR modal cards like bloodchief's thirst that pay an extra tax.
The available card pool doesn't provide me the luxury to tune my removal suite that much, but it's something I keep in mind on the fringes.
Ideally, i'd like to make sure that the very best 'baneslayer' type cards (high risk v high return) are at least a solid playable in cube.
They'll be rare, but still have a place.
This is spot-on with our perspective on Baneslayers, and you articulated that nicely! I’ve played Cube where everything is ETB value city, and drafts/deckbuilding/games get incestuous (usually in pauper). Powerful Baneslayer-type cards provide excellent balance to Cube decks and are powerful in the right matchups and situations. Elder Gargaroth is a particularly nice Baneslayer variant, as it is tutorable with cards like GSZ.
Beleren > Mage.
Shatter > Decrease.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
2 - Seasoned Hallowblade vs Adanto Vanguard ?
2 - Adanto Vanguard > Seasoned Hallowblade
—————————-
Elder Gargaroth vs Workshop Warchief?
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Now that the Triome cycle is complete, I'd like cut a dual cycle to make room for the full ten.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Pain Lands > Pathways
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
1) Run both Griselbrand & Archon of Cruelty
OR
2) Only run one of them & add another midrange black creature
BONUS This or That:
If only running one...which one? Griselbrand/Archon of Cruelty
Thanks!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
I would definitely run both. I feel like these are the two best reanimator payoffs, so I'd always run them if reanimator is supported, even at 360.
Griselbrand is better though, so if only running one, Griselbrand.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
I'm in the market for two ramp spells, which of the two would you pick?
- Sakura-Tribe Elder vsFarseek vs Three Visits/ Nature's Lore vs Kodama's Reach/Cultivate
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This.
I'd run both Archon and Griselbrand.
STE > the other options.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
1 - Espectations: In Too Deep vs Witness Protection ?
2 - Dancing Sword vs Citizen's Crowbar ?
3 - Gilded Drake vs Watcher for Tomorrow ?
Crowbar > Sword
Drake >>>>>>>> Watcher (assuming price is no object).
Also Sakura-Tribe Elder is outstanding. I put Kodama's Reach/Cultivate on the same level as Farseek. Maybe a tiny bit ahead as green wants LOTS of mana.
------------
Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast vs Ob Nixilis, the Adversary?
Depopulate vs Fumigate?
Daretti >>> Ob Nixilis
Depopulate > Fumigate based on cost alone, although I generally like Shatter the Sky more than both if you're playing a good amount of Gideons.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Depopulate > Fumigate
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Gonna go against the grain here and say
Elder Gargaroth > Workshop warchief
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
This is also what my group voted for.
I've been thinking about this in my own cube, and I think I've come up with the answer for me.
Barbed Spike > Crowbar > Ancestral Blade
A Stormfront Pegasus is just a much better creature than a Grizzly Bears, so Barbed Spike wins imo. I'd put Crowbar as #1 if it didn't have to tap to sac itself, but needing to wait a turn to deal with an artifact/enchantment hurts too much I think. I think the utility of being able to hit artifacts/enchantments does make it better than Ancestral Blade's lower equip cost, though.
[180 classic cube]
2 - Master of Death vs Tainted Indulgence ?
3 - Cloudkin Seer vs Poppet Stitcher ?
4 - Guilded Drake vs Sea Gate Stormcaller ?
As it stands I'll be making room for Warchief but definitely not cutting Gargaroth.
---
Soul Shatter > Doom Blade // maybe?
Tainted Indulgence > Master of Death // Master is a really nice efficient threat or signpost card for blue aggro, but the issue is there are quite a few U/B/x decks that won't run it
Poppet Stitcher > Cloudkin Seer // Seer is very uninteresting. Poppet Stitcher is a creative token generator with some cool interactions with cards like Bitterblossom, and also support for spellsmatter.dec albeit making really bad tokens
Sea Gate Stormcaller > Gilded Drake // Drake would be the pick if you run all the shenanigans from constructed formats, but it's lackluster as a generic value pick I feel. I haven't run Stormcaller, but it looks decent enough for duplicating cheap cantrips or burn.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This 1000%. I even try to cater my removal suite to be a little worse against top end creatures that don't have built in protection.
I'd rather have a higher density of - sweepers that sweep cheap creatures/tokens, dismember, abrupt decay or portable hole that are cheap, effecient, but have their limitations. OR modal cards like bloodchief's thirst that pay an extra tax.
The available card pool doesn't provide me the luxury to tune my removal suite that much, but it's something I keep in mind on the fringes.
Ideally, i'd like to make sure that the very best 'baneslayer' type cards (high risk v high return) are at least a solid playable in cube.
They'll be rare, but still have a place.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
This is spot-on with our perspective on Baneslayers, and you articulated that nicely! I’ve played Cube where everything is ETB value city, and drafts/deckbuilding/games get incestuous (usually in pauper). Powerful Baneslayer-type cards provide excellent balance to Cube decks and are powerful in the right matchups and situations. Elder Gargaroth is a particularly nice Baneslayer variant, as it is tutorable with cards like GSZ.