In the end it may just not be worth adding any of these cards, but I just wish there was a little bit less utility and more stompy in my green section!
As for 3cc creatures, Tireless Tracker is an absolute baller, Jadelight Ranger is flexible and can beat down decently in a lot of situations, and Thrashing Brontodon is a flexible maindeck card. Boon Satyr is a pseudo-cubeable combat trick that plays well in Flash in addition to aggro, and some folks have had decent success with Rishkar, Peema Renegade too.
Yea, that's super helpful! The cards you mentioned cover a lot of the pieces I already run/was considering.
Not to get off track, but I guess my struggle is finding the niche that Green aggro fills. This is a bit of an oversimplification but, Red=speed + reach, White=hatebears, Black=recursion, Green=?Under-costed stompy creatures? Still, that's not really what my Green section looks like (more utility than power).
One quick follow-up question:
- Does Goyf really work in aggro? Seems like it would spend a lot of the early game as a 0/1 or 1/2. I'd imagine something like Rimestag would be able to attack much more consistently. EDIT: The old Goyf thread covers my question pretty well, however I'm still curious about people's thoughts on Goyf vs Rimestag in green aggro.
If anyone else has thoughts on the cards mentioned by me or wtwlf, I'd love to hear them!
It adds to the critical mass of available aggro pieces at the table. So if Boros aggro is being drfted, for example, Gruul or Selesnya might be available to another drafter. And supporting green aggro allows Simic tempo to be a thing, and that deck straight doesn't exist without the support. So a handful of cards in the green section unlocks like 5+ decks that players can explore.
But yes, oversized creatures for the mana investment, and value/utility strapped to useful bodies are green's main contributions to the deck. And several of the multicolor cards are good too, like Bloodbraid Elf, Knight of Autumn and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Rancor and Plow Under are also fantastic support cards that might already be available, that can really shine in green aggro/tempo shells. And Hexdrinker is one of the best 2-power 1-drops available to any color. Questing Beast is an insane aggro curve-topper too. It also unlocks the full potential of creatures like Wild Nacatl and Warden of the First Tree, which are fantastic 1-drops in those decks, obviously.
So, a lot of the tools are already there. Give the deck the aggressive 1-drops that it needs, and it can unlock a bunch of playable decks.
Edit: Oh, and Tarmogoyf is great. It's usually at least a 2/3 by the time it needs to attack. It's usually not the only 2cc play you have available to you, the deck contains spells, lands that die, and other things that get into the 'yard pretty early. The upside of having a 2-mana 4/5 or 5/6 or whatever is high enough to deal with the uncommon occasions where it's: A) your only play, and B) is stuck as an 0/1 or 1/2. It's SUPER rare that both of those scenarios arise at the same time. It usually follows a Thoughtseize, Bolt, fetch, removal spell or whatever, and is a 3/4 with relative reliability.
1 - I like the conventional (non-flying damage) 'Quakes the most, since I also play Moat and Serra, and players can draft a Boros "Flying" deck. Good at the kitchen table in 1994, good in the cube today, lol. So for me, it's:
Personally I cube the 3 Earthquake variants as my sweepers of choice and maxed out on dividable burn, which I like more than the other red sweepers since it's more versatile.
From a cube perspective, I'm still not certain if Armageddon is an effect I want to double up on especially when I run Catastrophe as well. I think the bigger strike against it is that it can be reprinted. I picked up Rishadan Port shortly before it was reprinted in M25 with the superior art (IMO) and it still burns a little. I'm not anti-reprint, but the card dropped by $80.00.
As far as Tolarian Academy, my cube is unpowered and doesn't lend a lot of support to artifacts.dec though I have been trying to improve this some. I'm not sure if the support is there or will get there to make this worth buying. If this were still at 40 dollars the risk vs. reward would've been more palatable. I think this card is still going to increase in price and by quite a bit, but I'm primarily concerned with how viable it would be in my cube and speculation is secondary.
I think I'm leaning towards picking up Ravages and passing on Academy, but wanted to get a bit more feedback. Here is my cube for reference.
I think Ravages is a staple, and I'd play that one for sure. I'm leaning towards yes on Academy too, but I don't have much experience with it in an unpowered environment.
I do not want to play the two Jaces and Narset, even at 720. They are too similar, they suffer from diminishing returns and they do not make the cut in every deck to begin with. So I'd pick Mu, plus two out of the rest. Too early to tell which is better without testing PoV, but I lean towards cutting Narset (assuming no draw 7 combos). She is the narrowest of the bunch in terms of decks that can play her, and she is the least fun to play against.
The modality of new Jace seems incredible and makes me want to prioritize him over the other 3cc options listed. Beleren is sort of like Cube's Divination - I think we would miss that card the least.
I don’t have experience with Frontier Explorer, but in my Cube I’d prefer Mardu Woe-Reaper because of the Human Warrior creature types. If you have almost no tribal interactions, then go with the cat.
Domri is nice in aggressive midrange but can just be an expensive elf, Sarkhan is unique as both a fires and threaten effect, Huntmaster is just nice value but could work nicely with Mayor of Avabruck and Nightpack Ambusher but they both work better in Simic decks from what we've seen.
Thrashing Brontodon underperformed for us, so I would say Manglehorn, although I would run Yavimaya Elder over both those cards. I'm also a big fan of Jadelight Ranger.
strangleroot geist vs treetop ambusher vs saddled rimestag vs any other green aggro 2 drop I may not be considering?
Rhonas the Indomitable vs lovestruck beast vs The First Iroan Games vs any other green aggro 3 drop I may not be considering?
In the end it may just not be worth adding any of these cards, but I just wish there was a little bit less utility and more stompy in my green section!
As for 3cc creatures, Tireless Tracker is an absolute baller, Jadelight Ranger is flexible and can beat down decently in a lot of situations, and Thrashing Brontodon is a flexible maindeck card. Boon Satyr is a pseudo-cubeable combat trick that plays well in Flash in addition to aggro, and some folks have had decent success with Rishkar, Peema Renegade too.
Hope that helps.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Not to get off track, but I guess my struggle is finding the niche that Green aggro fills. This is a bit of an oversimplification but, Red=speed + reach, White=hatebears, Black=recursion, Green=?Under-costed stompy creatures? Still, that's not really what my Green section looks like (more utility than power).
One quick follow-up question:
- Does Goyf really work in aggro? Seems like it would spend a lot of the early game as a 0/1 or 1/2. I'd imagine something like Rimestag would be able to attack much more consistently. EDIT: The old Goyf thread covers my question pretty well, however I'm still curious about people's thoughts on Goyf vs Rimestag in green aggro.
If anyone else has thoughts on the cards mentioned by me or wtwlf, I'd love to hear them!
But yes, oversized creatures for the mana investment, and value/utility strapped to useful bodies are green's main contributions to the deck. And several of the multicolor cards are good too, like Bloodbraid Elf, Knight of Autumn and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Rancor and Plow Under are also fantastic support cards that might already be available, that can really shine in green aggro/tempo shells. And Hexdrinker is one of the best 2-power 1-drops available to any color. Questing Beast is an insane aggro curve-topper too. It also unlocks the full potential of creatures like Wild Nacatl and Warden of the First Tree, which are fantastic 1-drops in those decks, obviously.
So, a lot of the tools are already there. Give the deck the aggressive 1-drops that it needs, and it can unlock a bunch of playable decks.
Edit: Oh, and Tarmogoyf is great. It's usually at least a 2/3 by the time it needs to attack. It's usually not the only 2cc play you have available to you, the deck contains spells, lands that die, and other things that get into the 'yard pretty early. The upside of having a 2-mana 4/5 or 5/6 or whatever is high enough to deal with the uncommon occasions where it's: A) your only play, and B) is stuck as an 0/1 or 1/2. It's SUPER rare that both of those scenarios arise at the same time. It usually follows a Thoughtseize, Bolt, fetch, removal spell or whatever, and is a 3/4 with relative reliability.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Haven't cubed in a while but Hellkite is insane.
Pyroclasm
Kozilek's Return
Sweltering Sun
Storm's Wrath
Subterranean Tremors
Earthquake
Rolling Earthquake
2 - Mardu Strike Leader vs Vampire Nighthawk ?
3 - Paradise Druid vs Boreal Druid ?
Earthquake = Subterranean Tremors >> Pyroclasm > Rolling Earthquake > Sweltering Suns > Storm's Wrath > Kozilek's Return
2 - Strike Leader for tokens/aggro/'crats, Nighthawk for generic midrange and control "goodstuff" decks.
3 - Boreal > Paradise because 1 mana > 2 mana when dealing with 2nd-tier ramp cards.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Personally I cube the 3 Earthquake variants as my sweepers of choice and maxed out on dividable burn, which I like more than the other red sweepers since it's more versatile.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Hellkite >> Riders > Devils
Embercleave > Risk Factor > Stoke the Flames > Staggershock
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I'm really stuck on whether to buy Ravages of War and/or Tolarian Academy. Both cost about a Franklin now.
From a cube perspective, I'm still not certain if Armageddon is an effect I want to double up on especially when I run Catastrophe as well. I think the bigger strike against it is that it can be reprinted. I picked up Rishadan Port shortly before it was reprinted in M25 with the superior art (IMO) and it still burns a little. I'm not anti-reprint, but the card dropped by $80.00.
As far as Tolarian Academy, my cube is unpowered and doesn't lend a lot of support to artifacts.dec though I have been trying to improve this some. I'm not sure if the support is there or will get there to make this worth buying. If this were still at 40 dollars the risk vs. reward would've been more palatable. I think this card is still going to increase in price and by quite a bit, but I'm primarily concerned with how viable it would be in my cube and speculation is secondary.
I think I'm leaning towards picking up Ravages and passing on Academy, but wanted to get a bit more feedback. Here is my cube for reference.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
2 - Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer vs Will Kenrith ?
3 - Night Incarnate vs Massacre Girl ?
4 - Gilded Drake vs Baral, Chief of Compliance ?
2 - Will > Mu
3 - Incarnate > Girl
4 - Baral (if you support storm) > Drake
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I do not want to play the two Jaces and Narset, even at 720. They are too similar, they suffer from diminishing returns and they do not make the cut in every deck to begin with. So I'd pick Mu, plus two out of the rest. Too early to tell which is better without testing PoV, but I lean towards cutting Narset (assuming no draw 7 combos). She is the narrowest of the bunch in terms of decks that can play her, and she is the least fun to play against.
Mu > Kenrith
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I also like Mu over Will Kenrith.
Also I think Skysovereign, Consul Flagship is worse than these two cards but willing to hear arguments if someone thinks otherwise.
Thanks!
Sword of Truth and Justice is better.
Frontier Explorer vs. Mardu Woe-Reaper
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Domri is nice in aggressive midrange but can just be an expensive elf, Sarkhan is unique as both a fires and threaten effect, Huntmaster is just nice value but could work nicely with Mayor of Avabruck and Nightpack Ambusher but they both work better in Simic decks from what we've seen.
Is there something else obvious I'm missing?
Thanks
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
Agreed. I think Wrenn and Six is the best gruul card in the cube.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Manglehorn or Thrashing Brontodon
Or, if green already has Reclamation Sage at 3, is another non-Naturalize/Shatter creature possibly a better call?
The rest of my green 3s at 630 are Courser of Kruphix, Den Protector, Eternal Witness, Ramunap Excavator, Spike Feeder, and MVP Tireless Tracker.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)