Jailer >> Field > Fetters
Silverheart > Vizier > Naturalists > Elemental
Zenith > Vapors >=Salvation
Hammer >> Devil's Play
Thought Courier > Waterfront Bouncer
Hammer > Blast
Cloistered Youth > Champion of the Parish
I could tell right away that you don't run whisperwood in your cube when I read this heh.
In my format (strong density of answers), whisperwood almost never gets cut from heavy green decks.
Have played with him hundreds of cubes, and he's not on the chopping black.
His resiliency and wrath protection is so important for a 5 drop threat.
I'd put him first in this list by a pretty large margin.
Jailer >> Field > Fetters
Silverheart > Vizier > Naturalists > Elemental
Zenith > Vapors >=Salvation
Hammer >> Devil's Play
Thought Courier > Waterfront Bouncer
Hammer > Blast
Cloistered Youth > Champion of the Parish
I could tell right away that you don't run whisperwood in your cube when I read this heh.
In my format (strong density of answers), whisperwood almost never gets cut from heavy green decks.
Have played with him hundreds of cubes, and he's not on the chopping black.
His resiliency and wrath protection is so important for a 5 drop threat.
I'd put him first in this list by a pretty large margin.
I've played him before, he just didn't survive and got cut. It has no evasion and little immediate impact. The manifest played poorly in green decks around here. Not only does it rely on a high creature count, it also misses ETB effects. Many times even if you did hit a creature, it was not worth paying the mana to turn it face up. Also, Whisperwood doesn't pass the Terminate test.
I like Guardian Idol more, especially if you're supporting colorless matters. A mana rock ETBing tapped really isn't that much of a drawback, most of the time you're not using it the turn you cast it.
I like Stone more, especially if you're supporting colorless matters. A mana rock ETBing tapped really isn't that much of a drawback, most of the time you're not using it the turn you cast it.
So you actually like Idol more? Just posting for clarification.
Dispatch by far. Perimeter has no artifact synergies worse with skullclamp and is only permanent parity for Braids. Giving your opponent a free token can really bite you if they have equipment, vehicles, elspeth, battlecry, anthems, Craterhoof, Gaea's Cradle, Hellrider, Opposition etc. The risk is not worth it.
In practice, Sentinel Dispatch is really good with tons of synergies, and Hold the Perimeter is a disaster waiting to happen.
There are tons of artifact matters card and sentinel dispatch provides you one every game for free that can block great against aggro decks. It's a tough card to justify spending removal on since it's a free card.
Meanwhile, Hold the Perimeter has the opposite problem of giving your opponent a threat. Sure, you have a 1/2 defender, but that really sucks and has no real additional synergies. It's certainly not the best to spend a Firebolt on a 1/2, but I feel much better about it when I already have the threat, or I play my zurgo t1 and then kill the 1/2 t2.
I'm ranking these moreso on the order I think cubes should run these, as opposed to strict power level. Daze and Remand could flip if you want more fair fights against turn 2-3 combos and cheat-outs.
Arcane Denial
- It's the only 2-cmc hard counter that's not 1U. Card disadvantage is slightly mitigated since you're more likely to get access to the drawn cards first. Arcane Denial's worth scales down if the cube's power level is lower.
Remand
- Cantrip is always nice and this can be a good tempo play.
Memory Lapse
- Very similar to Remand, Memory Lapse is better in scenarios against cheap removal spells that they're more likely to replay again if it got Remanded.
Daze
- Free counter magic is nice, but Daze loses a lot of its value over time. Cube isn't as tight-knit as Legacy where Daze is a bigger roadblock against lower cmc bombs in a world full of x4 Wasteland decks.
Currently, I've been keeping the Lich and running GFTT over Chainer's.
My experience with the Lich is that it is a bad to decent edict effect, coming down later in the game is not ideal for an edict. It doesn't help stop the early cheated Carnage Tyrants/Leviathans or what have you, and it is virtually blanked when Lingering Souls, Pia and Kiran, Hermit Druid, etc, etc, hit the board...BUT!...sometimes it is a decent edict, and I like three things:
1) It is a card advantage engine. I cut Arena and this is all that's left for black that lets me straight up draw a card every turn (provided I'm monarch of course)
2) It has a decent attacking body. I like clearing the board and going on the offensive.
3) It is tutorable with Recruiter OTG.
In short, I like Lich more for the CA than the actual removal spell. I would only choose the other two if I felt that the early interaction was so critical that I needed Dibolic/Chainer's/GFFT as a trio to fight the good fight.
Putting GFFT heads up vs. Chainer's is tricky for me:
Instant vs. Sorcery
Limited Targets vs. Always Hits Something
Does this card comparison come down to being able to hit the flashback on Chainer's to make it worth it? Does that put it over the hump?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I could tell right away that you don't run whisperwood in your cube when I read this heh.
In my format (strong density of answers), whisperwood almost never gets cut from heavy green decks.
Have played with him hundreds of cubes, and he's not on the chopping black.
His resiliency and wrath protection is so important for a 5 drop threat.
I'd put him first in this list by a pretty large margin.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
I've played him before, he just didn't survive and got cut. It has no evasion and little immediate impact. The manifest played poorly in green decks around here. Not only does it rely on a high creature count, it also misses ETB effects. Many times even if you did hit a creature, it was not worth paying the mana to turn it face up. Also, Whisperwood doesn't pass the Terminate test.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
2 - Guardian Idol vs Fellwar Stone ?
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
So you actually like Idol more? Just posting for clarification.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
Dispatch by far. Perimeter has no artifact synergies worse with skullclamp and is only permanent parity for Braids. Giving your opponent a free token can really bite you if they have equipment, vehicles, elspeth, battlecry, anthems, Craterhoof, Gaea's Cradle, Hellrider, Opposition etc. The risk is not worth it.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
In practice, Sentinel Dispatch is really good with tons of synergies, and Hold the Perimeter is a disaster waiting to happen.
There are tons of artifact matters card and sentinel dispatch provides you one every game for free that can block great against aggro decks. It's a tough card to justify spending removal on since it's a free card.
Meanwhile, Hold the Perimeter has the opposite problem of giving your opponent a threat. Sure, you have a 1/2 defender, but that really sucks and has no real additional synergies. It's certainly not the best to spend a Firebolt on a 1/2, but I feel much better about it when I already have the threat, or I play my zurgo t1 and then kill the 1/2 t2.
Sentinel Dispatch>>>>>Hold the Perimeter
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
I'm ranking these moreso on the order I think cubes should run these, as opposed to strict power level. Daze and Remand could flip if you want more fair fights against turn 2-3 combos and cheat-outs.
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
Arcane Denial
- It's the only 2-cmc hard counter that's not 1U. Card disadvantage is slightly mitigated since you're more likely to get access to the drawn cards first. Arcane Denial's worth scales down if the cube's power level is lower.
Remand
- Cantrip is always nice and this can be a good tempo play.
Memory Lapse
- Very similar to Remand, Memory Lapse is better in scenarios against cheap removal spells that they're more likely to replay again if it got Remanded.
Daze
- Free counter magic is nice, but Daze loses a lot of its value over time. Cube isn't as tight-knit as Legacy where Daze is a bigger roadblock against lower cmc bombs in a world full of x4 Wasteland decks.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
The cards you're giving them with Denial are huge. Lapse can often just be a timewalk.
Avatar by Hakai Studios
-
Which do you guys prefer: Mardu Strike Leader or Vampire Nighthawk?
450 Unpowered Cube Cobra
Nighthawk > Strike Leader
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Chainer's Edict
Go for the Throat
Custodi Lich
So I'd say:
Custodi Lich > Chainer's Edict ≥ Go for the Throat
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
450 Unpowered Cube Cobra
Currently, I've been keeping the Lich and running GFTT over Chainer's.
My experience with the Lich is that it is a bad to decent edict effect, coming down later in the game is not ideal for an edict. It doesn't help stop the early cheated Carnage Tyrants/Leviathans or what have you, and it is virtually blanked when Lingering Souls, Pia and Kiran, Hermit Druid, etc, etc, hit the board...BUT!...sometimes it is a decent edict, and I like three things:
1) It is a card advantage engine. I cut Arena and this is all that's left for black that lets me straight up draw a card every turn (provided I'm monarch of course)
2) It has a decent attacking body. I like clearing the board and going on the offensive.
3) It is tutorable with Recruiter OTG.
In short, I like Lich more for the CA than the actual removal spell. I would only choose the other two if I felt that the early interaction was so critical that I needed Dibolic/Chainer's/GFFT as a trio to fight the good fight.
Putting GFFT heads up vs. Chainer's is tricky for me:
Instant vs. Sorcery
Limited Targets vs. Always Hits Something
Does this card comparison come down to being able to hit the flashback on Chainer's to make it worth it? Does that put it over the hump?