On those sets, I've only run one per line -and of those, Surrak is the only one I'm excited about; Rev is a good roleplayer in control; Satyr is so-so in clunky aggro; BSZ is pretty bad.
Speculating:
1. Bhontu > BSZ > Scripture (announcing the Wrath seems really bad)
2. Rhonas > Satyr > Scavenger (Is Rhonas good in Fires/Monsters? It looks good in those decks.)
3. Surrak > Vizier > Raptor > Allosaurus (Allosaurus is just a body until 7 mana, and Raptor's defenses have a lot of holes)
4. Revelation > Teferi (Not sure Teferi's better than the Jace nobody plays, even before looking at UW competition)
Is Flametongue Kavu necessary in a 200 cards cube which also features Chandra ToD? I always saw Kavu as a staple but Chandra gave me the feeling it is no longer necessary (and i would like to play Hellrider in its place)
Personally I could see not running it at a 200, but I think that's largely dependent on how many creature decks and what type of environment your 200 becomes. If it's a heavy-creature cube, then FTK is that much better than a lot of other 4s, but at the same time you only have so much room and Chandra will still be stellar in non-creature matchups. It also might be nice to have a 3R cards vs a 2RR card.
Journey is probably/definitely the better card, but I can see wanting Lone Missionary just as a blink/anti-aggro/still-fine-in-aggro card. I'd recommend trying Missionary for a bit and seeing how you and your playgroup like it. Lone is definitely more exciting than Journey is since the blink/recursion shenanigans are appealing.
I've tried Lone Missionary before, and once it actually sat in front of me as nothing more than a 2/1 for 2 in every board state, I took it out quickly. I love flicker though, so maybe your worst 2-drop could be cut for it if that's a major archetype for you?
Ehh I found space in my 450 list for Eldrazi Displacer and I was just looking at potential blink targets, but my first inclination was that Journey was a superior option that simply goes in all white decks.
Eldrazi Displacer is so exciting as a one card flicker engine it constantly tempts me to put in much worse versions like Galepowder Mage or Angel of Condemnation.
1) Reckoning > Zenith > Scriptures, but even Reckoning will be cut very soon from my 720
2) Scavenger > Satyr > Rhonas. Scavenger is the more widely playable card with highest floor, a maindeckable graveyard hate too. Lower ceiling too however. Rhonas has consistency issues. Satyr was desirable for me as I don't support green aggro, and there are many better double green three drops.
3) Vizier = Surrak = Raptor > Allosaurus
4) Teferi > Revelation
Is Flametongue Kavu necessary in a 200 cards cube which also features Chandra ToD? I always saw Kavu as a staple but Chandra gave me the feeling it is no longer necessary (and i would like to play Hellrider in its place)
My only problem is I feel like i have been cutting lot's of my discard outlets recently and while psychatog may not better, he does enable graveyard strategies.
I prefer Lone Missionary because I think white has enough better removal at 450. I like Missionary in Orzhov aggro to offset the life loss of Bob, Bitterblossom, et. al. Also, it's a fine 2-drop for control against aggro, pretty much invalidating a turn for the aggro deck.
I support reanimator and the artifact deck so I like Psychatog the best of those Dimir cards.
If you need the discard outlet and run the full suite of draw 7's, Psychatog might very well be the best of the bunch. It has the highest ceiling and can be a completely busted card in the right deck/circumstance.
For generic value, Hostage Taker is probably the best overall card of the group; it's playable in everything. Good tempo card, good control card, good value card.
I think the most important card of the group might be The Scarab God though, since it fills a role that both blue and black are found wanting. A strong 5cc finisher. All the playable 5cc creatures in those colors either play more like 6+ drops or they're utility cards. TSG is arguably the only creature you can safely tap out for on T5 and it can just dominate the game once it resolves. The need for a card that fits that bill is the reason why I run it over the other two at the moment.
But really, this is one of the few cases where any of the three are honestly defendable, and I can see a good justification for any. Can't miss, IMO.
I think it's ,
Scarab god > Hostage Taker > Psychatog.
Scarab god was a pet card of mine in cube before it took over standard, used to draft around it for fun. From that experience, I became fully aware of it's power. I now believe it's one of the strongest 5 drop creatures ever printed. It takes over the game at a speed and power that no other 5 drop can AND has protection built in in AND has built in synergies with the color combination. (looting + reanimation + solid value creatures)
Hostage taker is great, but Scarab god is on the next level IMO.
Baelful strix is still clearly my dimir #1 as the value it generates is top tier for it's cost, and there's much greater competition for the few 5-6 CMC slots in a cube deck than the many 1-2 CMC slots. Scarab god is clearly my dimir #2.
Thanks for the recommendations. Glad you brought up Baleful Strix, because knowing I love love love The Scarab God & Hostage Taker, it's coming down to Baleful Strix vs. Psychatog, and Baleful Strix is never a win condition OR discard outlet... but that mana cost
Right now, I'm not running Gifted Aetherborn, but I'm thinking I'd like to add it to help offset lifeloss from Dark Confidant, Necropotence and Bitterblossom. I'm also supporting Devotion in black, which Aetherborn helps with. Bloodghast, Nantuko Shade, Geralf's Messenger also support the devotion plan. Bloodghast can fuel Carrion Feeder, and to a lesser extent, Braids, cabal Minion and Recurring Nightmare. Nantuko Shade is strong for Devotion, as those decks have tons of swamps to fuel the shade. Geralf's Messenger is a zombie for Gravecrawler.
I’m not going to cut Sower just yet, but is the tempo swing that much more powerful (in an environment full of cheap burn and edicts) than a card that has 3 bodies and also provides evasion and supports artifact.dec and Opposition?
I’m doing a critical evaluation of upside vs guaranteed value on all my 4-drops right now, since they generally die to removal at a tempo loss.
Sower >>>>> Rogue. Rogue is good, but Control Magic effects are too strong to not play.
Pretty much this, being able to steal creatures off your 2/2 flying 4 drop is pretty big. Yeah it dies to shocks and such, but forcing your opponent to (still) have the answer by 4 mana is a good place to be considering your payoff when they don't.
Can you elaborate Steve instead of just spamming arrows? What about Control Magic effects that die to Magma Jet? Is the upside just generally so insane that it’s worth it?
Can you elaborate Steve instead of just spamming arrows? What about Control Magic effects that die to Magma Jet? Is the upside just generally so insane that it’s worth it?
Yes, control magic effects are that strong, however it's important to note why as some of your examples have conditions that make them way worse.
The condition on Sower is fairly unconditional, with the condition being 'it dies to magma jet'. While dying to magma jet sucks, having all the benefits of being a creature (recursion, can apply pressure on its own when the bigger creature is blocked, wears weapons, flies) plays in its favor as well. Also, forcing your opponent to have the magma jet is a good place to be--yes, they could have it, but there's a chance they don't because magic is a game of variance and you've had at min ~3 turns of plays before that which could eat removal.
Desertion is a decent amount worse because of the timing. I can't tap out and cast my desertion on the spell they resolved, and if I have cards in my hand and pass the turn with 5 mana up there is a (good) chance my opponent will be suspicious and not play right into my control magic counterspell. The floor is wayyyyy lower than Sower, as needing to hit your control magic in a specific window is brutal.
Confiscation Coup is probably worse than mind control, being that you're typically only getting things with CMC 4 or less. So when my opponent plays even something like a Thragtusk or Baneslayer Angel, I have a dead card. That's really bad.
Dragonlord Silumgar is a good card that might not get played in every cube strictly because it's dimir--if that card was monocolored, it would be a stone-cold staple. Flying, 3/5 deathtouch body that lives through X damage effects, and because you can steal PWers with it as well you are often getting some kind of value in case it gets terminated. Being UB means that there are typically only 2-3 6 drop options available for those colors and considering how good those options are (grave titan, consecrated sphinx) it's nice to have a splashable 3rd option. Dimir sections may opt not to play him because guild sections are just brutal like that, but he's definitely a top option available.
Also: spamming arrows is a pretty effective way of adding 'oomph' to the analysis. You can infer that the control magic effect really is that much more insane if he's spamming.
Control Magic is always a 2 for 1 and can often be a huge tempo swing. It’s fragile, sure but it’s also an evasive threat and has all the synergies of being a creature. I would never consider cutting Sower from my cube.
Other Control Magic effects are either too expensive, too conditional (Threads of Disloyalty), or have too much of a drawback (Kefnet’s Last Word). Control Magic / Sower of Temptation / Treachery / Vedalken Shackles are all stone cold staples in my book.
Speculating:
1. Bhontu > BSZ > Scripture (announcing the Wrath seems really bad)
2. Rhonas > Satyr > Scavenger (Is Rhonas good in Fires/Monsters? It looks good in those decks.)
3. Surrak > Vizier > Raptor > Allosaurus (Allosaurus is just a body until 7 mana, and Raptor's defenses have a lot of holes)
4. Revelation > Teferi (Not sure Teferi's better than the Jace nobody plays, even before looking at UW competition)
Hostage Taker - Psychatog - The Scarab God
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Personally I could see not running it at a 200, but I think that's largely dependent on how many creature decks and what type of environment your 200 becomes. If it's a heavy-creature cube, then FTK is that much better than a lot of other 4s, but at the same time you only have so much room and Chandra will still be stellar in non-creature matchups. It also might be nice to have a 3R cards vs a 2RR card.
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Journey is probably/definitely the better card, but I can see wanting Lone Missionary just as a blink/anti-aggro/still-fine-in-aggro card. I'd recommend trying Missionary for a bit and seeing how you and your playgroup like it. Lone is definitely more exciting than Journey is since the blink/recursion shenanigans are appealing.
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This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
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This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
1) Reckoning > Zenith > Scriptures, but even Reckoning will be cut very soon from my 720
2) Scavenger > Satyr > Rhonas. Scavenger is the more widely playable card with highest floor, a maindeckable graveyard hate too. Lower ceiling too however. Rhonas has consistency issues. Satyr was desirable for me as I don't support green aggro, and there are many better double green three drops.
3) Vizier = Surrak = Raptor > Allosaurus
4) Teferi > Revelation
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My only problem is I feel like i have been cutting lot's of my discard outlets recently and while psychatog may not better, he does enable graveyard strategies.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
I support reanimator and the artifact deck so I like Psychatog the best of those Dimir cards.
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For generic value, Hostage Taker is probably the best overall card of the group; it's playable in everything. Good tempo card, good control card, good value card.
I think the most important card of the group might be The Scarab God though, since it fills a role that both blue and black are found wanting. A strong 5cc finisher. All the playable 5cc creatures in those colors either play more like 6+ drops or they're utility cards. TSG is arguably the only creature you can safely tap out for on T5 and it can just dominate the game once it resolves. The need for a card that fits that bill is the reason why I run it over the other two at the moment.
But really, this is one of the few cases where any of the three are honestly defendable, and I can see a good justification for any. Can't miss, IMO.
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I think it's ,
Scarab god > Hostage Taker > Psychatog.
Scarab god was a pet card of mine in cube before it took over standard, used to draft around it for fun. From that experience, I became fully aware of it's power. I now believe it's one of the strongest 5 drop creatures ever printed. It takes over the game at a speed and power that no other 5 drop can AND has protection built in in AND has built in synergies with the color combination. (looting + reanimation + solid value creatures)
Hostage taker is great, but Scarab god is on the next level IMO.
Baelful strix is still clearly my dimir #1 as the value it generates is top tier for it's cost, and there's much greater competition for the few 5-6 CMC slots in a cube deck than the many 1-2 CMC slots. Scarab god is clearly my dimir #2.
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To me Sinkhole is the one I would cut. The other cards have more versatility IMO
I’m not going to cut Sower just yet, but is the tempo swing that much more powerful (in an environment full of cheap burn and edicts) than a card that has 3 bodies and also provides evasion and supports artifact.dec and Opposition?
I’m doing a critical evaluation of upside vs guaranteed value on all my 4-drops right now, since they generally die to removal at a tempo loss.
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Pretty much this, being able to steal creatures off your 2/2 flying 4 drop is pretty big. Yeah it dies to shocks and such, but forcing your opponent to (still) have the answer by 4 mana is a good place to be considering your payoff when they don't.
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If Control Magic effects are too strong not to play, how about cards like Desertion or Confiscation Coup or Dragonlord Silumgar?
Yes, control magic effects are that strong, however it's important to note why as some of your examples have conditions that make them way worse.
The condition on Sower is fairly unconditional, with the condition being 'it dies to magma jet'. While dying to magma jet sucks, having all the benefits of being a creature (recursion, can apply pressure on its own when the bigger creature is blocked, wears weapons, flies) plays in its favor as well. Also, forcing your opponent to have the magma jet is a good place to be--yes, they could have it, but there's a chance they don't because magic is a game of variance and you've had at min ~3 turns of plays before that which could eat removal.
Desertion is a decent amount worse because of the timing. I can't tap out and cast my desertion on the spell they resolved, and if I have cards in my hand and pass the turn with 5 mana up there is a (good) chance my opponent will be suspicious and not play right into my control magic counterspell. The floor is wayyyyy lower than Sower, as needing to hit your control magic in a specific window is brutal.
Confiscation Coup is probably worse than mind control, being that you're typically only getting things with CMC 4 or less. So when my opponent plays even something like a Thragtusk or Baneslayer Angel, I have a dead card. That's really bad.
Dragonlord Silumgar is a good card that might not get played in every cube strictly because it's dimir--if that card was monocolored, it would be a stone-cold staple. Flying, 3/5 deathtouch body that lives through X damage effects, and because you can steal PWers with it as well you are often getting some kind of value in case it gets terminated. Being UB means that there are typically only 2-3 6 drop options available for those colors and considering how good those options are (grave titan, consecrated sphinx) it's nice to have a splashable 3rd option. Dimir sections may opt not to play him because guild sections are just brutal like that, but he's definitely a top option available.
Also: spamming arrows is a pretty effective way of adding 'oomph' to the analysis. You can infer that the control magic effect really is that much more insane if he's spamming.
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Other Control Magic effects are either too expensive, too conditional (Threads of Disloyalty), or have too much of a drawback (Kefnet’s Last Word). Control Magic / Sower of Temptation / Treachery / Vedalken Shackles are all stone cold staples in my book.
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