The white cards are all similar in powerlevel. Secure the Wastes might be my least favorite of the bunch, but it just boils down to personal preference.
If you play a lot of decks where Behemoth shines, keep it in.
Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it as a nooby cuber. I've been changing things up in my cube quite a bit such as slotting phyrexian mana cards as colorless and utilizing a hybrid system for cards like Rakdos Cackler. It looks like you guys don't like the bouncer and champion so let me expand these questions just a bit:
I'd cut Waterfront Bouncer again. I like Imprisoned the most, but Impulse is the the best card in its category after Preordain, Ponder and Brainstorm.
Either Secure the Wastes or Spear of Heliod. The other two do not require a token deck to shine. On the same rationale, Polukranos sees a lot more play than Behemoth so it would be my pick. Green removal is rare and the legendary hydra is quite good at clearing her way than killing planeswalkers. Behemoth is a central piece to some decks though, so giving it up might not be what you want.
Serra Avenger - Should not be compared to the 2 drops for curving purposes. I've found that despite costing 2, requiring two white mana by turn 4 still effectively used all my resources for the turn often and as a 4 drop it is unimpressive.
Knight of Meadowgrain - lifegain is very good in some matchups but blank in others. Essentially a hate card against nonwhite aggro decks, and they be favorable matchups for white weenie anyway.
Knight of the White Orchid - Provides card advantage, fixing, deck thinning and shuffle. It is just hard to find a deck that will want both the body, the effect and be that heavy on white (requiring two white sources and fetching another requires HEAVY white). Aggro decks do not care about that ramp as much as they want to play their lands and creatures on curve, double white goes against this and the body is unimpressive. Control decks will have a card that doesn't advance their gameplan, is hard to cast and a terrible topdeck.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - estimation, never tried her. I dislike that she has a difficult cost yet drops in value sharply if you play her in later turns. The combo potential is interesting, but as a double white card is not the main draw here
Precinct Captain - The ability is always relevant, scales well with anthem effects, can get out hand and require a mass removal after a few turns by its lonesome. However the new wave of 2/3 bodies leaves him in the dust and usually he doesn't connect at all, connects once for negligible value or his trigger is an overkill.
Given all that, I think you probably should be playing none of the above. I've played 4 out of 5 of them over the years, only Captain has survived in 720 and it starts to get cut from lists of that size too. The above cards are not the sort of thing people would miss or even notice their absence.
Thinking more about Elspeth Knight-Errant vs Gideon Ally of Zendikar. Some quick thoughts: the latter seems to see more play in constructed formats and puts out stronger tokens off the bat. Additionally the ultimate is immediately available and opens up wide strategies while Elspeth's jump ability allows a single creature to quickly end your opponent. As of all Gideons, this one can add himself to the board for attacking, which means on a clear board, Gideon would likely be adding more power to your combat phase over Elspeth while the Elspeth helps break board stalls. I don't think Elspeth's ultimate is really that relevant to the game.
So I would like to ask the following:
1) Which do you think is the stronger card?
2) Which do you think makes for more interesting gameplay?
3) In which kind of decks do you prefer Elspeth and which for Gideon?
1) I think Elspeth is stronger, simply because increasing loyalty while advancing your board presence is such a strong attribute.
2) Gideon is more interesting, since he has more abilities that are relevant in different board states.
3) I prefer Elspeth more in a generic white deck, and Gideon more in a dedicated token shell, since his emblem gains so much more value in a deck that has the potential to g wide before he resolves, and you're more likely to already have a board of blockers in play to defend his loyalty.
Given all that, I think you probably should be playing none of the above. I've played 4 out of 5 of them over the years, only Captain has survived in 720 and it starts to get cut from lists of that size too. The above cards are not the sort of thing people would miss or even notice their absence.
I think there is room for a limited number of WW 2-drops because some of them are excellent for their cost even if it takes a very white-heavy deck to play them on time, but rather than ranking them and trying to play the top 1-3 I prefer to think about what supports the themes and archetypes you're pushing in your white section. I run 2 WW 2-drops, and I heavily support token/anthem based decks, so I'm running Precinct Captain and Consul's Lieutenant. A while back I was pushing a hatebears strategy, and Leonin Relic-Warder and Samurai of the Pale Curtain fit in quite nicely.
If there there are white-heavy archetypes that will be well supported by some of the ww 2-drops available, there's nothing wrong with trading off a little versatility for raw power and synergy.
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Thinking more about Elspeth Knight-Errant vs Gideon Ally of Zendikar. Some quick thoughts: the latter seems to see more play in constructed formats and puts out stronger tokens off the bat. Additionally the ultimate is immediately available and opens up wide strategies while Elspeth's jump ability allows a single creature to quickly end your opponent. As of all Gideons, this one can add himself to the board for attacking, which means on a clear board, Gideon would likely be adding more power to your combat phase over Elspeth while the Elspeth helps break board stalls. I don't think Elspeth's ultimate is really that relevant to the game.
So I would like to ask the following:
1) Which do you think is the stronger card?
2) Which do you think makes for more interesting gameplay?
3) In which kind of decks do you prefer Elspeth and which for Gideon?
Gideon is more interesting because he has more relevant modes for each stage of the game. Elspeth is still stronger IMO, and she's a better card in hard control so she is more broadly playable. Bonus points for killing opposing planeswalkers so efficiently. While her ultimate is weak compared to other planeswalker ultimates, it is among the most consistently achievable of them all and still quite powerful.
I think there is room for a limited number of WW 2-drops because some of them are excellent for their cost even if it takes a very white-heavy deck to play them on time, but rather than ranking them and trying to play the top 1-3 I prefer to think about what supports the themes and archetypes you're pushing in your white section. I run 2 WW 2-drops, and I heavily support token/anthem based decks, so I'm running Precinct Captain and Consul's Lieutenant. A while back I was pushing a hatebears strategy, and Leonin Relic-Warder and Samurai of the Pale Curtain fit in quite nicely.
If there there are white-heavy archetypes that will be well supported by some of the ww 2-drops available, there's nothing wrong with trading off a little versatility for raw power and synergy.
I agree with you but I'm less tolerant. I'm playing 2 WW cards, Consul's Lieutenant and Precinct Captain. At a lower cube size, I'd probably only run Lieutenant. I would play him over a generic 1W drop, though excitedly.
------------------------
I want to add another one or two mana burn spells to lower the curve in red aggro decks. Rank the following:
I want to add another one or two mana burn spells to lower the curve in red aggro decks. Rank the following:
Galvanic Blast, Pillar of Flame, Seal of Fire, Wild Slash
Other suggestions are welcomed too. For reference, I already run Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Firebolt, Burst Lightning, Forked Bolt, Flame Slash.
Out of that group I'd probably run Galvanic Blast, since you're supporting the artifact deck in Grixis, there's a real chance of having it deal 4 in that kind of deck, and Shock isn't a bad floor. You might also consider Rift Bolt if you're looking for another 1-mana burn spell.
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thanks for the feedback guys. the only WW 2 drop i am playing is knight of the white orchid. I had serra avenger for a while but she is getting cut and was wondering hat might be the best replacement for her. Looking at precinct captain i think.
Thinking more about Elspeth Knight-Errant vs Gideon Ally of Zendikar. Some quick thoughts: the latter seems to see more play in constructed formats and puts out stronger tokens off the bat. Additionally the ultimate is immediately available and opens up wide strategies while Elspeth's jump ability allows a single creature to quickly end your opponent. As of all Gideons, this one can add himself to the board for attacking, which means on a clear board, Gideon would likely be adding more power to your combat phase over Elspeth while the Elspeth helps break board stalls. I don't think Elspeth's ultimate is really that relevant to the game.
So I would like to ask the following:
1) Which do you think is the stronger card?
2) Which do you think makes for more interesting gameplay?
3) In which kind of decks do you prefer Elspeth and which for Gideon?
I think in cube, it's easier to have clogged board states. There's lots of tokens around to chump block, and a lot of "cheaty" strategies that put giant monsters on the battlefield that laugh at a 5/5.
There are many archetypes (specifically green) that are weak to fliers, that sending a creature in the air for a lot of damage is a very powerful curve topper that I don't think gideon can match.
Gideon is better than elspeth AGAINST certain decks, and in current constructed environments those type of decks are more prevalant. He is almost as hard to kill in those formats, but presents a faster clock.
The evasion of elspeth's jump ability is significantly more relevant in cube than in modern/legacy
The evasion she produces is also particularly effective against mid-game planeswalkers, so her jump ability can randomly provide some strong utility value in certain situations.
Entreat has been super good for my card. Catastrophe is the classic, great Cube card, but I need to throw Entreat into the hat for consideration. Cataclysm was mostly a bust for us.
i figured it replaces infiltrator nicely because Baral provides still supplies some looting
on the other hand....
I like the cutting of harbinger because Baral is easier to cast and still plays good defense.
The white cards are all similar in powerlevel. Secure the Wastes might be my least favorite of the bunch, but it just boils down to personal preference.
If you play a lot of decks where Behemoth shines, keep it in.
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I'd cut Waterfront Bouncer again. I like Imprisoned the most, but Impulse is the the best card in its category after Preordain, Ponder and Brainstorm.
Either Secure the Wastes or Spear of Heliod. The other two do not require a token deck to shine. On the same rationale, Polukranos sees a lot more play than Behemoth so it would be my pick. Green removal is rare and the legendary hydra is quite good at clearing her way than killing planeswalkers. Behemoth is a central piece to some decks though, so giving it up might not be what you want.
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I'd likely cut Wastes but maybe Spear.
I'm not a great fan of either of those green cards. I think I like Behemoth more because it's a great ramp target.
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Last one from me for a while:
Pick one:
Ratchet Bomb vs Nevinyrral's Disc
EDIT: I'm removing a red 1 drop to try Smash to Smithereens
Cut one:
Village Messenger or Monastery Swiftspear
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knight of meadowgrain
precinct captain
serra avenger
anafenza, kin-tree spirit
knight of the white orchid
Swiftspear > Messenger
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Disk > Bomb, seems more maindeck play
Swiftspear >> Village Messenger
From worst to best:
Serra Avenger - Should not be compared to the 2 drops for curving purposes. I've found that despite costing 2, requiring two white mana by turn 4 still effectively used all my resources for the turn often and as a 4 drop it is unimpressive.
Knight of Meadowgrain - lifegain is very good in some matchups but blank in others. Essentially a hate card against nonwhite aggro decks, and they be favorable matchups for white weenie anyway.
Knight of the White Orchid - Provides card advantage, fixing, deck thinning and shuffle. It is just hard to find a deck that will want both the body, the effect and be that heavy on white (requiring two white sources and fetching another requires HEAVY white). Aggro decks do not care about that ramp as much as they want to play their lands and creatures on curve, double white goes against this and the body is unimpressive. Control decks will have a card that doesn't advance their gameplan, is hard to cast and a terrible topdeck.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - estimation, never tried her. I dislike that she has a difficult cost yet drops in value sharply if you play her in later turns. The combo potential is interesting, but as a double white card is not the main draw here
Precinct Captain - The ability is always relevant, scales well with anthem effects, can get out hand and require a mass removal after a few turns by its lonesome. However the new wave of 2/3 bodies leaves him in the dust and usually he doesn't connect at all, connects once for negligible value or his trigger is an overkill.
Given all that, I think you probably should be playing none of the above. I've played 4 out of 5 of them over the years, only Captain has survived in 720 and it starts to get cut from lists of that size too. The above cards are not the sort of thing people would miss or even notice their absence.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
So I would like to ask the following:
1) Which do you think is the stronger card?
2) Which do you think makes for more interesting gameplay?
3) In which kind of decks do you prefer Elspeth and which for Gideon?
2) Gideon is more interesting, since he has more abilities that are relevant in different board states.
3) I prefer Elspeth more in a generic white deck, and Gideon more in a dedicated token shell, since his emblem gains so much more value in a deck that has the potential to g wide before he resolves, and you're more likely to already have a board of blockers in play to defend his loyalty.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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I think there is room for a limited number of WW 2-drops because some of them are excellent for their cost even if it takes a very white-heavy deck to play them on time, but rather than ranking them and trying to play the top 1-3 I prefer to think about what supports the themes and archetypes you're pushing in your white section. I run 2 WW 2-drops, and I heavily support token/anthem based decks, so I'm running Precinct Captain and Consul's Lieutenant. A while back I was pushing a hatebears strategy, and Leonin Relic-Warder and Samurai of the Pale Curtain fit in quite nicely.
If there there are white-heavy archetypes that will be well supported by some of the ww 2-drops available, there's nothing wrong with trading off a little versatility for raw power and synergy.
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Gideon is more interesting because he has more relevant modes for each stage of the game. Elspeth is still stronger IMO, and she's a better card in hard control so she is more broadly playable. Bonus points for killing opposing planeswalkers so efficiently. While her ultimate is weak compared to other planeswalker ultimates, it is among the most consistently achievable of them all and still quite powerful.
I agree with you but I'm less tolerant. I'm playing 2 WW cards, Consul's Lieutenant and Precinct Captain. At a lower cube size, I'd probably only run Lieutenant. I would play him over a generic 1W drop, though excitedly.
------------------------
I want to add another one or two mana burn spells to lower the curve in red aggro decks. Rank the following:
Galvanic Blast, Pillar of Flame, Seal of Fire, Wild Slash
Other suggestions are welcomed too. For reference, I already run Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Firebolt, Burst Lightning, Forked Bolt, Flame Slash.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Out of that group I'd probably run Galvanic Blast, since you're supporting the artifact deck in Grixis, there's a real chance of having it deal 4 in that kind of deck, and Shock isn't a bad floor. You might also consider Rift Bolt if you're looking for another 1-mana burn spell.
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thanks again!
I think in cube, it's easier to have clogged board states. There's lots of tokens around to chump block, and a lot of "cheaty" strategies that put giant monsters on the battlefield that laugh at a 5/5.
There are many archetypes (specifically green) that are weak to fliers, that sending a creature in the air for a lot of damage is a very powerful curve topper that I don't think gideon can match.
Gideon is better than elspeth AGAINST certain decks, and in current constructed environments those type of decks are more prevalant. He is almost as hard to kill in those formats, but presents a faster clock.
The evasion of elspeth's jump ability is significantly more relevant in cube than in modern/legacy
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Cheers,
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Narrowed it down to wharf infiltrator or harbinger of the tides
i figured it replaces infiltrator nicely because Baral provides still supplies some looting
on the other hand....
I like the cutting of harbinger because Baral is easier to cast and still plays good defense.
What would your cut be? Infiltrator or Harbinger?
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