Can someone explain to me why Arcane Denial is considered a better counterspell than Deprive apart from the obvious small difference in cost?
I've seen the argument that Denial is good because, if played right, you will only use it to counter a 'game changing' spell that is worth the card disadvantage from Denial to counter. However, doesn't the same argument hold true for Deprive - just with tempo disadvantage instead of card disadvantage? And wouldn't it just be better later in the game when you have no lands in hand (which is when 'game changing' spells tend to be played anyway)?
I've often had to defend the inclusion of Arcane Denial to my playgroup. I still think it is a good counterspell, but Deprive might just be better in most cases? What do you think?
Arcane Denial is the only splashable, unconditional hard counter ever printed for 2 mana. That alone is incredibly strong and would be worth any number of disadvantages it might come with. Because of the inherent card disadvantage, Arcane Denial does have to be used a bit more carefully. However, if you are countering any spell that cost your opponent more than 2 you're already up in terms of resources, and if the spell you countered is stronger than the average topdeck you expect your opponent to have it was worth it. Also, the slow-trip nature of Arcane Denial means that if you're countering a spell during your opponent's main phase you'll usually be able to use the card you draw a full turn before they will. Plus, the singleton nature of cube means that any spell that's countered is one you'll likely never have to worry about for the rest of the game.
Also, Deprive still gives the opponent card advantage. It's just that the card you're giving them is a free Sinkhole. Deprive is actually next in line for me if I need another counterspell because a 2-mana counterspell is such a precious thing in the history of Magic, but Arcane Denial wouldn't be the card I'd cut for it because Arcane Denial can fit into so many more decks because of its easier mana cost.
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Deprive costs UU and comes with a huge tempo setback. Arcane Denial's -1 card disadvantage isn't as steep as those costs are. It's the only true hard counter with a splashable casting cost, and similar to other cheap spells that have a card disadvantage drawback, the advantages outweigh the drawbacks.
Around what size cube would you run Arcane Denial? I have an unpowered 450 and I've always had a soft spot for the card. I run the pretty standard counter suite (Remand, Daze, Counterspell, etc.) but I don't have a copy of Mana Drain for example.
I'm thinking of cutting Chaos Warp. It's not bad but it's not played often. Instead I want to add another instant or sorcery that fits burn decks. Lava Spike is a possibility, but I could try out Flame Rift or Flame Jet. Any preference or better alternatives?
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I'm looking for a cheap (budgetwise) 5-color aggro fixer. At the moment it's between these two:
Ancient Ziggurat vs. Thran Quarry
I'm already running City of Brass and Mana Confluence, but I'm open for other suggestions.
In addition to wtwlf's suggestions below, I recommend Paliano, the High City. You'll almost always get two relevant color pairs out of it when you draft it, and once you do it has zero drawbacks, and it only costs about a buck.
Around what size cube would you run Arcane Denial?
Arcane Denial's great! I couldn't imagine not running it at anything but micro-cube size, it's gotta be 360 material at the very least.
I'm looking for a cheap (budgetwise) 5-color aggro fixer. At the moment it's between these two:
Ancient Ziggurat vs. Thran Quarry
I'm already running City of Brass and Mana Confluence, but I'm open for other suggestions.
Undiscovered Paradise is never the first land you want to be playing, but it's excellent in decks that don't really care about making land drops past the 3rd or 4th one. I actually like it better than Gemstone Mine because while it doesn't really help you build your mana base, it doesn't just disappear either. As an added bonus, it does help you make Landfall triggers over and over. It has gotten a bit pricey, but there aren't really that many more options for non-ETBT 5-color fixing. Maybe they'll reprint it in EMA? I'd love to foil mine out.
Besides Paliano, the only cheaper non-ETBT fixers I can think of are Crumbling Vestige and Tendo Ice Bridge, but the drawbacks there are pretty rough. Mirrodin's Core isn't bad, but not really aggro friendly.
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Indeed. Aside from what you listed, our group has had plenty of success running Reflecting Pool (though borderline) and Gemstone Mine. Never gave Undiscovered Paradise much of a second look, but Thran Quarry seems downright awful. If I had to run a card like that I'd be happier with Meteor Crater, and I don't particularly want to run that ever.
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Doesn't really matter, it's what he wants to do with his cube and the # of PWs is not what he's asking about.
If I had to choose one, I think Chandra is best for a generic good-in-multiplayer setting and Daretti better if 1) the artifact deck is always drafted or is drafted a high percentage of the time or 2) you do EDH as his ability to become a commander is important to consider there. Having a wrath of sorts on a PW seems to be crazy good in a multiplayer format.
As a multiplayer Cube owner, go with Daretti. You can always find another high cost red finisher, but Daretti is pretty much required to give red artifacts viability. The Nalaars and Goblin Welder can't pull all of that weight by themselves.
Wordknit really warps the draft quite a bit. It's fun to throw into a draft pool every now and again, but you can't just throw it into any 3+ color cube deck and have it be good, and I think that's what Ravnic and Zephyr are looking for. Unexpected Potential is probably a better choice if you want your splashing to come in Conspiracy form. However, they didn't show any interest in Paliano, so I'm guessing Conspiracies or something like City of Ass would be right out of the question, too.
I'd start adding the Vivid lands before I started unreliable 5c lands like Meteor Crater, Ancient Ziggurat, or Thran Quarry.
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I recently took world knit out of my unpowered cube, along with all the other conspiracies. They're just too dominating in that type of format, and if you're burn drafting even moreso. Being able to cast all your spells effortlessly is so huge, and then all your utility lands just go up in value. For like 5 drafts world knit was the only conspiracy my cube had, and every deck that drafted world knit no matter who the player won the draft, and it wasn't just coincidence.
Apologies if this one has been asked before, but what is the general this or that opinion on mentor of the meek vs bygone bishop? I am considering swapping out the mentor for bygone in my edh cube. Some of the factors I have been weighing against include:
Mentor works with the incidental human tribal theme I've got going in my cube, but bishop works a bit better with token doublers and tireless tracker. Bygone is also a little bit meatier, and has built in evasion. I don't know if the 1 for card draw off of mentor is an overall better effect than clue tokens either.
Mentor triggers off of tokens, which is pretty huge. There's also a fair number of creatures that cost 4 or more but have 2 or less power, many more so than there are creatures who cost 3 or less and have >2 power. Mentor is going to trigger more often, and draws its cards more cheaply.
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Having played with both, I like Bishop a little more. It's a much better beater because of the evasion. And that 3rd toughness means it's a decent blocker for when that matters. Clue tokens survive wraths, so it's insurance against them and they can be used in aggro/control strategies too. It's a really interesting card and I've enjoying it quite a bit.
Mentor was decent though, so if you prefer it to support tokens/humans I wouldn't fault you.
I think my issue with mentor is it wants a more midrange game plan to exploit the trigger, but it also wants a bunch of low power creatures, which you really don't typically want outside token strategies in midrange. So it's a bit more narrow than it looks.
I like Bygone Bishop more. The 2/3 flying body is much nicer, and you can cash in your card advantage later in your curve (and even after it dies, if need-be).
Multiplayer cube with small artifacts theme in izzet. Should I keep Daretti, Scrap Savant or replace him with Chandra, Flamecaller? I prefer not having more than one PW per color.
I am basically the same as you (360 Multiplayer, trying to stick to one walker per colour)... but I'd make an exception here.
My blue section is currently running Jace Beleren and Tezzeret the Seeker for this exact reason - they're both trying to do completely opposite things to each other (Tezz is ramping and playing with artifacts, Jace is milling and handing out cards). Daretti and Flamecaller are very similar to this case. I've only got Daretti in my red side at the moment, but if I got a copy of Flamecaller, I suspect I'd make the exception again (which isn't bad for a cube that was running Chandra Nalaar as the only red walker a couple of years ago).
I've seen the argument that Denial is good because, if played right, you will only use it to counter a 'game changing' spell that is worth the card disadvantage from Denial to counter. However, doesn't the same argument hold true for Deprive - just with tempo disadvantage instead of card disadvantage? And wouldn't it just be better later in the game when you have no lands in hand (which is when 'game changing' spells tend to be played anyway)?
I've often had to defend the inclusion of Arcane Denial to my playgroup. I still think it is a good counterspell, but Deprive might just be better in most cases? What do you think?
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Also, Deprive still gives the opponent card advantage. It's just that the card you're giving them is a free Sinkhole. Deprive is actually next in line for me if I need another counterspell because a 2-mana counterspell is such a precious thing in the history of Magic, but Arcane Denial wouldn't be the card I'd cut for it because Arcane Denial can fit into so many more decks because of its easier mana cost.
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540> 360 Powered CubeIn addition to wtwlf's suggestions below, I recommend Paliano, the High City. You'll almost always get two relevant color pairs out of it when you draft it, and once you do it has zero drawbacks, and it only costs about a buck.
Arcane Denial's great! I couldn't imagine not running it at anything but micro-cube size, it's gotta be 360 material at the very least.
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Gemstone Mine and Undiscovered Paradise are both great mana fixing lands for aggressive decks.
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Besides Paliano, the only cheaper non-ETBT fixers I can think of are Crumbling Vestige and Tendo Ice Bridge, but the drawbacks there are pretty rough. Mirrodin's Core isn't bad, but not really aggro friendly.
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Indeed. Aside from what you listed, our group has had plenty of success running Reflecting Pool (though borderline) and Gemstone Mine. Never gave Undiscovered Paradise much of a second look, but Thran Quarry seems downright awful. If I had to run a card like that I'd be happier with Meteor Crater, and I don't particularly want to run that ever.
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If I had to choose one, I think Chandra is best for a generic good-in-multiplayer setting and Daretti better if 1) the artifact deck is always drafted or is drafted a high percentage of the time or 2) you do EDH as his ability to become a commander is important to consider there. Having a wrath of sorts on a PW seems to be crazy good in a multiplayer format.
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I'd start adding the Vivid lands before I started unreliable 5c lands like Meteor Crater, Ancient Ziggurat, or Thran Quarry.
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Mentor works with the incidental human tribal theme I've got going in my cube, but bishop works a bit better with token doublers and tireless tracker. Bygone is also a little bit meatier, and has built in evasion. I don't know if the 1 for card draw off of mentor is an overall better effect than clue tokens either.
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Mentor was decent though, so if you prefer it to support tokens/humans I wouldn't fault you.
I think my issue with mentor is it wants a more midrange game plan to exploit the trigger, but it also wants a bunch of low power creatures, which you really don't typically want outside token strategies in midrange. So it's a bit more narrow than it looks.
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I am basically the same as you (360 Multiplayer, trying to stick to one walker per colour)... but I'd make an exception here.
My blue section is currently running Jace Beleren and Tezzeret the Seeker for this exact reason - they're both trying to do completely opposite things to each other (Tezz is ramping and playing with artifacts, Jace is milling and handing out cards). Daretti and Flamecaller are very similar to this case. I've only got Daretti in my red side at the moment, but if I got a copy of Flamecaller, I suspect I'd make the exception again (which isn't bad for a cube that was running Chandra Nalaar as the only red walker a couple of years ago).
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Versatility trumps instant speed and 4 mana is just too much to pay for spot removal.
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