Craterhoof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great oak guardian
Craterhoof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great oak guardian
I'd make that claim in EDH but Guardian's versatility / cheaper casting cost / splashability makes him more desirable in cube IMO.
Pentad Prism was super impressive in the holiday cube. Fixing your mana and ramping you that little bit more for one turn seems more impressive for what is most often going to be a permanent Everflowing Chalice for one. The high potential of Prism is worth more than the boring consistency of Vessel. Plus no one ever destroys it because it feels bad to destroy a rock that naturally turns off.
Craterhoof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great oak guardian
I have to agree; Craterhoof Behemoth is one of the most overlooked and underrated Cube cards here. The difference in additional damage between Great Oak Guardian and Craterhoof Behemoth with 4 creatures out is 8 points vs 30!
Pentad Prism is one of my favourite mana rocks overall and I used to run it in cube to good effect, so that's my pick. It fixes in a roundabout way and can ramp you to large or awkwardly costed creatures ahead of time.
1. I would only really consider Terminus and Vengeance from those. The cycling is nice on the Vengeance for when you're ahead, and Terminus works wonders as a topdeck with Brainstorm/Rack effects. I think Terminus is marginally better as it gets around a few creatures that Wraths don't normally.
2. I think Roc is the better creature.
3. How many targets do you run which make Revoke relevant? Wurmcoil Engine, Gods etc. If there are plenty, then the latter, otherwise Seal has slightly more upside.
4. Ayli is just spoiled, so it's a bit of an unknown quantity. Gerrard's Verdict is a rare thing, as a two cost double discard spell with upside. There is a lot to be said for Verdict. But Ayli is a bit of a stat monster and a really good sac outlet, so for many cubes it will have a lot of appeal.
Vengeance > Terminus >>>>> Cataclysm > Planar Outburst. I like Vengeance the most because it supports Superfriends very well and the cycling is very useful.
Roc > Angel, much easier CMC
Seal > Revoke unless you're playing with lots of gods
Verdict > Ayli, I love verdict because it's 2 mana card advantage and is really nice with Reanimation / Animate Dead effects.
Pentad Prism isn't really a manarock. It is more like a delayed but mana-fixing ritual.
Craterhoof Behemoth doesn't untap your creatures, so Great Oak Guardian is better. We had a long discussion about the former earlier this year in its thread. The problem is that it is just highly anti-synergystic with itself. Normal midrange and control decks won't be able to cast a 5GGG creature. This leaves three types of decks:
- In a reanimation deck, it is pretty weak, since you won't really have early creatures out.
- In a spell and/or artifact based ramp deck, there will be few to no creatures around when you cast it.
- In an elf-powered ramp deck, all those elves used to cast it won't profit from the boost.
At least GOG boosts and untaps all your elves in the last deck. And costing GG less means you can play it in many decks that just couldn't cast CB. Yes, CB can enable some ridiculous wins out of nowhere, but there will be far more times where it is stuck in your hand or just doesn't work properly. For consistency's sake, play GOG instead.
Cataclysm is quite different from the other cards on that list, since it is more aggro-tool than a sweeper. It is a really strong card that can help white aggro win. Against some decks (tokens and super friends), it is even better than Armageddon itself. I highly recommend it for aggressive white decks. Planar Outburst, Terminus and Akroma's Vengeance on the other hand are mass removals for control decks. I don't really like any of them and think there are better options that fill out your mass removal quota: Day of Judgment, Wrath of God, Rout and Catastrophe. After these, I'd run one or two of Planar Outburst, Austere Command and/or Hallowed Burial. Probably in this order.
I think I like Angel of Serenity more than Wingmate Roc. It is the second best white 7-drop, while there are quite a few 5-drops of Roc's power level, so it just feels more interchangeable. However, if you just have room for a single white 7-drop, then it is more likely that you run Roc.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim looks decent, but I like Gerrard's Verdict more. The former is a good but fair critter (that strong last ability will rarely be used), whereas the latter is one of only two good 2-mana double discard spells.
1. Each of them seems kind of niche, so that's hard to say. Outburst seems like the weakest. Vengeance seems OK. Cataclysm is a totally different spell and is probably closer to Armageddon than any other white sweeper.
2. Angel by a lot based on casting cost and overall power level.
3. It's already been said, but Revoke if you have a lot of Gods, otherwise Seal.
4. Probably Verdict, although I'm not running either one myself.
Atarka is a very high pick in my Cube whereas Ruric Thar would be barely playable imo.
Sarkhan and Yasova are the only 2 of those I would Cube and after testing both have decided Sarkhan is the better card mostly because of the fragility of Yasova.
Atarka is a very high pick in my Cube whereas Ruric Thar would be barely playable imo.
Sarkhan and Yasova are the only 2 of those I would Cube and after testing both have decided Sarkhan is the better card mostly because of the fragility of Yasova.
I think Yasova is great, I wouldn't even consider the other 3.
I ran Ruric Thar for a really long time and really liked it, but yeah... definitely run Dragonlord Atarka instead. You get so much more for that extra 1 with Atarka.
As for the Temur cards, I'd run Yasova. Colorwise, Yasova is so much more versatile than any card with URG in its casting cost. Plus, most cube green sections may have plenty of good 3-drop value creatures but not nearly enough 3-drops that beat down, and in a Gruul midrange/aggro deck red 3s don't bring much better to the table in that department.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
2 - For aggro: Scab-Clan Berserker vs Gore-House Chainwalker vs Reckless Waif ? What order ?
3 - Worldspine Wurm vs Avenger of Zendikar ?
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1. No idea, I don't run or ever plan to run any of them.
2. Gore-House Chainwalker > Reckless Waif > Scab-Clan Berserker, but bigger cube may need Waif.
3. Avenger of Zendikar. You can't reanimate Wurmm and it's hard to ramp into.
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2) Waif ≥ Chainwalker > Berserker
3) Wurm for fatty-cheating, Avenger for regular ramp
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Craterhoof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great oak guardian
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Guardian > Craterhoof (I have yet to test Guardian to see if it is any good)
Fellwar > Sphere > Vessel
Waif > Chainwalker > Berserker
Avenger > Wurm
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I'd make that claim in EDH but Guardian's versatility / cheaper casting cost / splashability makes him more desirable in cube IMO.
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I have to agree; Craterhoof Behemoth is one of the most overlooked and underrated Cube cards here. The difference in additional damage between Great Oak Guardian and Craterhoof Behemoth with 4 creatures out is 8 points vs 30!
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
2 - Angel of Serenity vs Wingmate Roc ? (considering support blink.dec)
3 - Seal of Cleansing vs Revoke Existence ?
4 - Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim vs Gerrard's Verdit ?
2. I think Roc is the better creature.
3. How many targets do you run which make Revoke relevant? Wurmcoil Engine, Gods etc. If there are plenty, then the latter, otherwise Seal has slightly more upside.
4. Ayli is just spoiled, so it's a bit of an unknown quantity. Gerrard's Verdict is a rare thing, as a two cost double discard spell with upside. There is a lot to be said for Verdict. But Ayli is a bit of a stat monster and a really good sac outlet, so for many cubes it will have a lot of appeal.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Vengeance > Terminus >>>>> Cataclysm > Planar Outburst. I like Vengeance the most because it supports Superfriends very well and the cycling is very useful.
Roc > Angel, much easier CMC
Seal > Revoke unless you're playing with lots of gods
Verdict > Ayli, I love verdict because it's 2 mana card advantage and is really nice with Reanimation / Animate Dead effects.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Craterhoof Behemoth doesn't untap your creatures, so Great Oak Guardian is better. We had a long discussion about the former earlier this year in its thread. The problem is that it is just highly anti-synergystic with itself. Normal midrange and control decks won't be able to cast a 5GGG creature. This leaves three types of decks:
- In a reanimation deck, it is pretty weak, since you won't really have early creatures out.
- In a spell and/or artifact based ramp deck, there will be few to no creatures around when you cast it.
- In an elf-powered ramp deck, all those elves used to cast it won't profit from the boost.
At least GOG boosts and untaps all your elves in the last deck. And costing GG less means you can play it in many decks that just couldn't cast CB. Yes, CB can enable some ridiculous wins out of nowhere, but there will be far more times where it is stuck in your hand or just doesn't work properly. For consistency's sake, play GOG instead.
Cataclysm is quite different from the other cards on that list, since it is more aggro-tool than a sweeper. It is a really strong card that can help white aggro win. Against some decks (tokens and super friends), it is even better than Armageddon itself. I highly recommend it for aggressive white decks. Planar Outburst, Terminus and Akroma's Vengeance on the other hand are mass removals for control decks. I don't really like any of them and think there are better options that fill out your mass removal quota: Day of Judgment, Wrath of God, Rout and Catastrophe. After these, I'd run one or two of Planar Outburst, Austere Command and/or Hallowed Burial. Probably in this order.
I think I like Angel of Serenity more than Wingmate Roc. It is the second best white 7-drop, while there are quite a few 5-drops of Roc's power level, so it just feels more interchangeable. However, if you just have room for a single white 7-drop, then it is more likely that you run Roc.
Revoke Existence if you run any Gods or Wurmcoil Engine.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim looks decent, but I like Gerrard's Verdict more. The former is a good but fair critter (that strong last ability will rarely be used), whereas the latter is one of only two good 2-mana double discard spells.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
1. Each of them seems kind of niche, so that's hard to say. Outburst seems like the weakest. Vengeance seems OK. Cataclysm is a totally different spell and is probably closer to Armageddon than any other white sweeper.
2. Angel by a lot based on casting cost and overall power level.
3. It's already been said, but Revoke if you have a lot of Gods, otherwise Seal.
4. Probably Verdict, although I'm not running either one myself.
Couple of questions for my cube:
1. Dragonlord Atarka or Ruric Thar, the Unbowed?
2. Yasova Dragonclaw, Maelstrom Wanderer, Sarkhan Unbroken, or Surrak Dragonclaw?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
2. Yasova > Wanderer = Sarkhan >>>> Surrak
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Sarkhan and Yasova are the only 2 of those I would Cube and after testing both have decided Sarkhan is the better card mostly because of the fragility of Yasova.
I think Yasova is great, I wouldn't even consider the other 3.
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
As for the Temur cards, I'd run Yasova. Colorwise, Yasova is so much more versatile than any card with URG in its casting cost. Plus, most cube green sections may have plenty of good 3-drop value creatures but not nearly enough 3-drops that beat down, and in a Gruul midrange/aggro deck red 3s don't bring much better to the table in that department.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!