Initially, I had no interest in it at all, but I'm warming up to the idea of Managorger Hydra. I don't support green aggro, so I don't run the others, but If I did, I would probably rank them Vinelasher Kudzu > Managorger Hydra > Scythe Leopard. Maybe Leopard should be ranked higher since green is really hurting for aggro one drops, but I am just not a fan of it at all.
@rant
I think Hydra will be fine for mid-sized cubes. It can get out of hand very quickly and gives green a potential fatty at 3cmc, where they would normally only come down at 4+. The trample is huge as well. I haven't had a chance to actually try it out yet, so this is all just conjecture, but I'm optimistic.
You probably need to run both Leopard and Kudzu if you support green aggro. I wouldn't cube Hydra unless my cube was enormous. Ranking them, I'd say:
Kudzu>Leopard>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra
Cheers,
rant
Having cubed with Hydra since Origins released, I can say this is a bit exaggerated. I think Hydra is a fine card for 540+ lists. Without seeing actual game play with the Leopard yet, I'd still rank them in this same order, but Hydra is much closer to being number two here than you might think. WCS on the Hydra, he eats a removal spell right away. On average, though, people don't always have the removal spell immediately and he grows out of burn range very quickly. He's certainly not a 360 card, but he's not embarrassing.
I think Leopard is only worth playing if you want to really support green aggro, you will know if you do, and he is a lock then.
Kudzu is decent is smaller cubes with all the fetches, probably a must in green aggro cubes and and maybe if green is used as the /x in your Aggro/X decks from Red White or Black.
The Hydra is a different kind of card. I played Tauren Mauler for a while and this guy looks fun if you want to support some tempo decks our of green.
So pick which archetype needs another card.
And after playing the prerelease and some cube, I have a much higher opinion of awaken cards that have a cheap normal cost or a 4 power creature. Clutch of currents is definitely the card that got the most talk among my group, so I will try and find room to try it. Currently I like it less that Cyclonic Rift, Man-o War and Harbinger of Tides but more than Vapor Snag, Silent Departure, Aether Adept, Into the Roil etc. Not sure if I like it better than repulse.
Incidentally for those who likes the spells matter deck I would consider this card as it is a tempo card (most times this deck is tempo) and adds another non creature spell that is also a threat.
And after playing the prerelease and some cube, I have a much higher opinion of awaken cards that have a cheap normal cost or a 4 power creature. Clutch of currents is definitely the card that got the most talk among my group, so I will try and find room to try it. Currently I like it less that Cyclonic Rift, Man-o War and Harbinger of Tides but more than Vapor Snag, Silent Departure, Aether Adept, Into the Roil etc. Not sure if I like it better than repulse.
Incidentally for those who likes the spells matter deck I would consider this card as it is a tempo card (most times this deck is tempo) and adds another non creature spell that is also a threat.
If it were an instant it would be a staple.
Clutch of Currents is a Burst Lightning / Scatter to the Winds type of card. It provides two lackluster modes, but a lot of flexibility in the ability to choose a mode. Sorcery speed Unsummon or a 5-mana, 3-power/toughness Man-o'-War. I think it deserves some testing.
I like Wurm better, but I don't really like it as is so take that with a grain of salt. It's not the worst, and IMO better than Ob as it is a reanimation target that can act like Elesh Norn and wrath your opponent's board.
With another 2 anthem effects added to black and white with the new Gideon and Drana I am wondering if it would be worth it to make a swap of Sorins from LoI to Solemn Visitor. I don't really want to include a second walker with the same type in a multicolored section so both isn't an option for me.
I asked the Sorin preference when Khans came out and the consensus here was Lord of Innistrad was better mainly because Solemn Visitor had to lose half its starting loyalty to make a Vampire. I think Solemn Visitor is still a fine card but if you have to go with one go with Lord of Innistrad.
Id say Massacre wurm > Ob Nixillis, but it's very specific to my cube and my goal of balance
I started playing magic a couple sets after massacre wurm was released,
Cubes on MTGsalvation were what I based my initial list off, and he wasn't being played at the time. so I never gave him a try.
Recently I've been disappointed with reanimators performance in my cube , due in part to it being a hard deck to draft and inconsistancies can crop up. Fair archetypes have been pushed in my cube, with some of them gaining a combo element that a slower reanimator deck has trouble dealing with.
I've been so impressed with dragonlord atarka and elesh norn in cube, that I wanted to emphasize reanimator cards that brought you from behind. Allowing you to durdle a couple turns and come back with one card.
In theory, massacre wurm fit that roll perfectly. I was also unimpressed by the number of finishers I had for UB control, so he slots nicely into a mediocore finisher roll.
So far in preliminary testing he's been great, and surprised he got axed from so many lists so fast.
This is the balance I try to achieve with the archetypes:
Agro > control/durdles/failed combo decks
Midrange > Agro + 55/45 vs another archetype that it focuses on doing well against.
Reanimator/Ramp > Midrange/Agro, with reanimator being the strongest in it's ideal version, but is easiest to train wreck.
Control > Most midrange, ramp and at it's best vs all-in combo decks (most forms of reanimator)
Wurm, not close. I think it is the second or third best big black creature, depending on if you want to run Griselbrand. If you support tokens this can when the game on the spot.
I think Volcanic Hammer is the worst of the 4 and least interesting.
The others would depend on what archetypes need suppot
I would play Rift Bolt for spells matter
Devil's play for big red/grixis control
Brimstone Volley for Sacrifice/Braids (or if 5 toughness dudes run rampant)
For the blue cards
Ancestral Vision and Thought Scour >>>>>>>Sleight of Hand
And I would only play scour if I am really support delve/dredge/reanimator/storm etc ehavily
Kudzu>Leopard>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra
Cheers,
rant
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It's not bad. I like it more than Vapor Snag for sure. It's likely worse than Harbinger though. And Scour is a completely different kind of card.
It's probably close in power level to Silent Departure, which is actually a pretty decent card.
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Initially, I had no interest in it at all, but I'm warming up to the idea of Managorger Hydra. I don't support green aggro, so I don't run the others, but If I did, I would probably rank them Vinelasher Kudzu > Managorger Hydra > Scythe Leopard. Maybe Leopard should be ranked higher since green is really hurting for aggro one drops, but I am just not a fan of it at all.
@rant
I think Hydra will be fine for mid-sized cubes. It can get out of hand very quickly and gives green a potential fatty at 3cmc, where they would normally only come down at 4+. The trample is huge as well. I haven't had a chance to actually try it out yet, so this is all just conjecture, but I'm optimistic.
Having cubed with Hydra since Origins released, I can say this is a bit exaggerated. I think Hydra is a fine card for 540+ lists. Without seeing actual game play with the Leopard yet, I'd still rank them in this same order, but Hydra is much closer to being number two here than you might think. WCS on the Hydra, he eats a removal spell right away. On average, though, people don't always have the removal spell immediately and he grows out of burn range very quickly. He's certainly not a 360 card, but he's not embarrassing.
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Kudzu is decent is smaller cubes with all the fetches, probably a must in green aggro cubes and and maybe if green is used as the /x in your Aggro/X decks from Red White or Black.
The Hydra is a different kind of card. I played Tauren Mauler for a while and this guy looks fun if you want to support some tempo decks our of green.
So pick which archetype needs another card.
And after playing the prerelease and some cube, I have a much higher opinion of awaken cards that have a cheap normal cost or a 4 power creature. Clutch of currents is definitely the card that got the most talk among my group, so I will try and find room to try it. Currently I like it less that Cyclonic Rift, Man-o War and Harbinger of Tides but more than Vapor Snag, Silent Departure, Aether Adept, Into the Roil etc. Not sure if I like it better than repulse.
Incidentally for those who likes the spells matter deck I would consider this card as it is a tempo card (most times this deck is tempo) and adds another non creature spell that is also a threat.
If it were an instant it would be a staple.
Clutch of Currents is a Burst Lightning / Scatter to the Winds type of card. It provides two lackluster modes, but a lot of flexibility in the ability to choose a mode. Sorcery speed Unsummon or a 5-mana, 3-power/toughness Man-o'-War. I think it deserves some testing.
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With another 2 anthem effects added to black and white with the new Gideon and Drana I am wondering if it would be worth it to make a swap of Sorins from LoI to Solemn Visitor. I don't really want to include a second walker with the same type in a multicolored section so both isn't an option for me.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/23816 current list if it helps people choose.
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Sorin, Lord of Innistrad > Sorin, Solemn Visitor I like having them both, but if I could only choose one, I'd go with the first one.
Kiora, Master of the Depths >>>>>>> Coiling Oracle
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Id say Massacre wurm > Ob Nixillis, but it's very specific to my cube and my goal of balance
I started playing magic a couple sets after massacre wurm was released,
Cubes on MTGsalvation were what I based my initial list off, and he wasn't being played at the time. so I never gave him a try.
Recently I've been disappointed with reanimators performance in my cube , due in part to it being a hard deck to draft and inconsistancies can crop up. Fair archetypes have been pushed in my cube, with some of them gaining a combo element that a slower reanimator deck has trouble dealing with.
I've been so impressed with dragonlord atarka and elesh norn in cube, that I wanted to emphasize reanimator cards that brought you from behind. Allowing you to durdle a couple turns and come back with one card.
In theory, massacre wurm fit that roll perfectly. I was also unimpressed by the number of finishers I had for UB control, so he slots nicely into a mediocore finisher roll.
So far in preliminary testing he's been great, and surprised he got axed from so many lists so fast.
This is the balance I try to achieve with the archetypes:
Agro > control/durdles/failed combo decks
Midrange > Agro + 55/45 vs another archetype that it focuses on doing well against.
Reanimator/Ramp > Midrange/Agro, with reanimator being the strongest in it's ideal version, but is easiest to train wreck.
Control > Most midrange, ramp and at it's best vs all-in combo decks (most forms of reanimator)
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Wurm, not close. I think it is the second or third best big black creature, depending on if you want to run Griselbrand. If you support tokens this can when the game on the spot.
2 - Thought Scour vs Sleight of Hand vs Ancestral Vision ? what order ?
Ancestral Visiom > Sleight of Hand > Thought Scour
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Ancestral Vision > Thought Scour > Sleight of Hand
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The others would depend on what archetypes need suppot
I would play Rift Bolt for spells matter
Devil's play for big red/grixis control
Brimstone Volley for Sacrifice/Braids (or if 5 toughness dudes run rampant)
For the blue cards
Ancestral Vision and Thought Scour >>>>>>>Sleight of Hand
And I would only play scour if I am really support delve/dredge/reanimator/storm etc ehavily