I think they're all solid "tier 2" options. I'd play the Wanderer just to test it out. I like Thornling more than most, so I might pick it over Vorapede, simply because it works more like a 6-drop, and the 5cc green creature slot is stacked.
I think Vorapede is a nightmare of a card(in a good way). 3 green out of 5 mana can be tricky sometimes but is reality not that bad with all the elves you are usually running. Thornling seems to be outclassed so I would try out the wanderer.
I think I agree with wtwlf123 almost 100% I don't think of them are the best cards at their cost. But I am actually interested in testing Wanderer and I have an almost inordinate like of the "-ling" creatures. I don't currently -- but have considered running Thornling -- mostly because my friend has a foil though.
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I want to test Scatter to the Winds, ages ago I liked draining whelk, and I like the versatility on this more. Of the other two I guess I'd choose complicate but I can't say that I'm doing it happily.
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Calculated Dismissal is the least exciting by far of those two. Complicate is a tier 2 cube spell that's super value if you cycle it and Scatter could prove to be pretty serious quality and is actually a hard counter, as opposed to Dismissal.
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I know people consider Collonade and Tar Pit to be considerable to the shockland, but I'm wondering how people view this new jewel compare to the shock.
I consider all those cards staples except strangleroot geist (narrow and doesn't have the power level to compensate for it's narrowness).
Couldnt imagine cutting any of them until like 285 or something...
Green 2-drops are all middling to poor and are the primary culprit for the sorry state of green aggro
This is exacerbated by the fact that green has a number of excellent gold 2 drops: Voice of Resurgence, Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Fleecemane Lion, Lotleth Troll, Putrid Leech, Burning-Tree Emissary
I'd say if you are judging by impact that the second list is much closer to "staple" status
Sorry, but your thinking is completely off.
Most of the green 2 drops are not agressive, they are ramp oriented or enablers of common archetypes. Ramping is what green does best, so having 2 drops that coincide with that gameplan makes the most sense.
In green agro fleecemane lion, Qasali pridemage and putrid leech (and to some extent voice of resurgence) are the only cards that impress me AND they are competing for slots with other fantastic cards in their 2-color combination.
Your understanding of the word "staple" is very different than it's use on these forums.
Excuse my tardiness, but you are wrong; so wrong in fact that the issue is barely debatable. You say that ramping is what green does best as though the color exists in a vacuum.
You are (presumably) trying to craft a LIMITED environment. This necessitates that each color be functional/coherent. From this starting premise, we can propose without controversy that each color needs a large number of twos and many of them need to be aggressive (even Blue is not completely excepted from this tenet). Instead, you advocate for filling out this crucial spot in green with a hodgepodge of "enablers" and ramp creatures. Ramp creatures (especially the 2+ mana variety) can easily be obviated since Green ramp can just as easily be defined by land auras, Natural Order (where mana elves are just as good for fodder), Channel, Eureka, etc. In fact, some of those are obviously superior options.
Meanwhile you go out of your way to bad mouth the stable of green multicolor creatures that are far more balanced and interesting but which crimp the color since they are not mono-green cards.
The path of least resistance is to build a Cube where are all the decks are midrange (and aggro decks prominently featuring 5 mana cards are decidedly midrange, before anyone tries to interject). This decision has very detrimental effects overall and has never produced a great Cube experience for any group I've played with. The surest way to combat that type of decline is to flood the Cube with 2s (and 1s, but those tend to be delimited by availability) -- niche cards like Rofellos are fine, but they can't be substituted for the backbone of the color.
Do you guys think that Dismiss should be the cut for Scatter to the Winds? I am also planning to reintroduce Daze again into the Cube (cutting Cyclonic Rift, which was underperforming)
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Funny I actually recommended Cyclonic Rift as a cut to Spike_Rogue and he said the same thing (along the lines of the card being nuts). Admittedly I didn't give it a fair shake when it first came out but added it fairly recently and yeah... I'm in agreement with it being pretty frackin' good. I undervalued it because I thought it didn't compare favourably to Repeal (a card which I really didn't end up liking) and I probably also overemphasized not being able to bounce your own stuff. That piece is really just a feel bad and I know now I shouldn't have evaluated the card based on that. After giving Cyclonic Rift a real good honest try well, I've been converted. It plays in pretty much any blue deck, is amazingly flexible, is a fantastic answer to a lot of problem permanents, and probably most importantly -- works in every stage of the game.
I think Cyclonic Rift is more comparable to Burst Lightning than Scatter to the Winds is.
I think they're both comparable to Burst Lightning for the same reasons. The problem I had with the Rift is that the decks that wanted the tempo advantage from the bounce the most were the decks that were never going to reliably reach 7 mana. Scatter to the Winds doesn't have that problem, because the control decks that are willing to play the 3cc counterspell won't have any issues reaching 6 mana with regularity.
The other issue that I had with Rift was the inability to protect/abuse my own permanents with it. It was ultimately a dud for my group.
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I think Vorapede is a nightmare of a card(in a good way). 3 green out of 5 mana can be tricky sometimes but is reality not that bad with all the elves you are usually running. Thornling seems to be outclassed so I would try out the wanderer.
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Keep Scatter / Complicate, Calculated Dismissal is waaaay below Complicate.
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Lumbering Falls vs Breeding Pool
I know people consider Collonade and Tar Pit to be considerable to the shockland, but I'm wondering how people view this new jewel compare to the shock.
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Excuse my tardiness, but you are wrong; so wrong in fact that the issue is barely debatable. You say that ramping is what green does best as though the color exists in a vacuum.
You are (presumably) trying to craft a LIMITED environment. This necessitates that each color be functional/coherent. From this starting premise, we can propose without controversy that each color needs a large number of twos and many of them need to be aggressive (even Blue is not completely excepted from this tenet). Instead, you advocate for filling out this crucial spot in green with a hodgepodge of "enablers" and ramp creatures. Ramp creatures (especially the 2+ mana variety) can easily be obviated since Green ramp can just as easily be defined by land auras, Natural Order (where mana elves are just as good for fodder), Channel, Eureka, etc. In fact, some of those are obviously superior options.
Meanwhile you go out of your way to bad mouth the stable of green multicolor creatures that are far more balanced and interesting but which crimp the color since they are not mono-green cards.
The path of least resistance is to build a Cube where are all the decks are midrange (and aggro decks prominently featuring 5 mana cards are decidedly midrange, before anyone tries to interject). This decision has very detrimental effects overall and has never produced a great Cube experience for any group I've played with. The surest way to combat that type of decline is to flood the Cube with 2s (and 1s, but those tend to be delimited by availability) -- niche cards like Rofellos are fine, but they can't be substituted for the backbone of the color.
Breeding Pool > Lumbering Falls
I think Collonade and Tar Pit are both better than Lumbering Falls in their colors.
And green's 2-drops are awesome.
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Yes, any mono blue 4 mana hard counterspell not named Cryptic Command isn't commonly played.
Also, I like Complicate much more than Dismiss also.
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Also agreeing with everyone else etc.
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Sejiri Steppe vs. Sandstone Bridge
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Khalni Garden vs. Fertile Thicket
I mean, I think its pretty obvious that Mortuary Mire and Teetering Peaks are the best spell lands for their colors.
My cube aims to showcase the most powerful spells that were once Standard legal from the Lorwyn block forward. Both the individual cards and the archetypes are heavily influenced by the decks and cards that saw competitive play during their lifetime in Standard (and to a lesser extent Modern). In card selection, preference goes to cards that made a greater impact on any constructed format. An average FNMer should feel nostalgic while playing this cube.
I think Cyclonic Rift is more comparable to Burst Lightning than Scatter to the Winds is.
The other issue that I had with Rift was the inability to protect/abuse my own permanents with it. It was ultimately a dud for my group.
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Gideon, ally of Zendikar vs Ajani Goldmane.
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