What would happen if I showed up in a Modern tournament with MDC with that ruling present on gatherer? Surely it would be legal to play lands from the top if that was the published oracle ruling. Oracle text trumps card text, right? I think I'd play it in a deck with Spanish Meloku. The judges would have to let me play by the oracle ruling or the printed card text; you've got to be consistent.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
What would happen if I showed up in a Modern tournament with MDC with that ruling present on gatherer? Surely it would be legal to play lands from the top if that was the published oracle ruling. Oracle text trumps card text, right? I think I'd play it in a deck with Spanish Meloku. The judges would have to let me play by the oracle ruling or the printed card text; you've got to be consistent.
If the Oracle Text was altered to say you could play lands from the top, then yes, the judges would have to let you play lands from the top. However, since a ruling beneath it that was designed to help make things easier to understand is wrong, there's no such issue.
I keep reading through all these old threads looking for ways to tighten up my unpowered list. I'm at 375 right now, likely expanding to 450 soon, and I'm running Eternal Witness, Reclamation Sage, Troll Ascetic, Yavimaya Elder, and Courser of Kruphix. I'm not enamored of the Ascetic, and I'm cutting green aggro back a hair. Not really sure what I'm looking for. I'm not currently running any morphs, so Den Protector is out. I'm unpowered, so Viridian Shaman isn't necessary for me. Flip Nissa seems pretty underwhelming, but I've never played with it. I'm almost thinking about Awakening Zone to support ramp and tokens. Thoughts?
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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I've had mixed results with both Tracker and Hydra. My issue has been the speed in which they actually do ***** that's productive--in some match ups when they are allowed to build up they're great, but with the speed of cubes now it often feels like I'm dicking around when playing them. In slower cubes I like them a lot more, but they have underperformed in power cubes for me.
Hydra I can get is slow but Tracker can hit for a lot of damage out the gate if required (potentially 5 if investing fully next turn), probably more so than most three drops. That all said, I'm cutting it in my next update because I want to add a little more payoff for some of green's archetypes*, and TT doesn't really contribute a lot to any particular archetype. It's just a good card. If green was a major artifact.dec colour things would be different. Goodness me can this thing crap out artifacts.
*I want to add a little more 'oompf' to the token decks, to reward getting decent numbers into play, so I will be re-adding Elesh Norn and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar as anthems, as well as Gaea's Cradle.
TT can definitely hit for a lot but also does require that huge commitment to hit for that large amount since spending two turns of mana to get that big swing in is a real cost. Paying 2 for clues can be brutal.
Green 3s are kind of an annoying spot. Most of the best creatures in this slot are really good utility dorks/value creatures like Reclamation Sage and Yavimaya Elder. Not nearly enough of them beat down for 3 or more, which is too bad because it would be really nice to have the option to play elf into a 3-drop that hits hard. Tireless Tracker is great here because it provides value and beatings but I'm not in love with any of the other options for 3+ power creatures here. Call of the Herd seems to be the next best option for a 3-drop beater, but it's not exactly exciting.
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Tons of options at the green 3 spot. My 2 cents is you don't really need a lot of token support for that archetype to be good. A lot of decks can't handle creature decks that go wide.
As opposed to adding a new creature, what about something like Elephant Guide? This fits better I think with green as a splash on aggro (being G instead of GG) - thinking over ascetic here. It also technically makes a token, so still loosely supports that role.
You are running both cultivate and Kodama's Reach, so not sure you really need more ramp support (of the land fetch variety). If you did want more, I think Wood Elves is sweet (or flip Nissa maybe but it doesn't technically ramp). WE is sweet with Natural Order too.
I would rank Nissa, Vastwood Seer in the top five for green three drops. Actually, let's do that. My cube would have to get pretty big to make room for ten green three drops, but if it were to ever go up to that size, this is how I'd rank them, in order of inclusion.
Note that I choose to run Uktabi Orangutan over Viridian Shaman just for nostalgia. I don't think one is better than the other, as the elf up-side on Shaman is minimal. I wouldn't run both until the cube got enormous. I'd rather have the different effect on Ainok Survivalist.
Top 10 lists make little sense to me at this point because the difference in power between some of these cards is largely contextual (and small even in a vacuum).
I do agree though that Eternal Witness is a card that virtually all cubes should at least consider including because of the massive depth of play it offers. But everything else I feel is customizable, especially at this particular color CC slot. There are easily 20 green 3's you could justify at virtually any power level depending on the composition of your cube and player base.
@wtwlf: What am I missing on Selvala that makes her top ten list worthy? Her first ability being symmetrical feels like she could potentially give a lot of value to your opponent. Her mana ability seems sweet, but is it really that good?
Top 10 lists make little sense to me at this point because the difference in power between some of these cards is largely contextual (and small even in a vacuum).
I'd agree if we were doing "Top 10 Most Powerful Green Three Drops". To me this list is more of an "Top 10 Green Three Drops in Order of Inclusion" list. When I think about what goes in the number one slot, I think about what card should pretty much every single cube (that doesn't have some sort of restriction) be running? That card, for me, is Eternal Witness. I did the same with the rest of my list. For my cube, this list stops at number eight, but if I were to go up in size and warrant another three drop, that card would most likely be Boon Satyr. If I go up large enough to warrant two more green three's, I probably need another answer for artifacts/enchantments, which is why Ainok Survivalist is in that list.
I'd agree if we were doing "Top 10 Most Powerful Green Three Drops". To me this list is more of an "Top 10 Green Three Drops in Order of Inclusion" list. When I think about what goes in the number one slot, I think about what card should pretty much every single cube (that doesn't have some sort of restriction) be running?
I get it, I just don't think it's all that valuable unless context is provided around the choices is all.
I think ahadabans has an important point here, the archetypes/theaters you're trying to support and the effects you're prioritizing in your green section go a long way towards informing what you want to include here. Calibretto and wtwlf are in agreement on their top 7-8:
These are all fantastic value creatures that provide at least a 2-for-1, and support ramp and/or recursion/blink strategies quite nicely. All of them make the cut in my list. However, as beatdown creatures they aren't what you want in a more aggressive deck as your 3-drop, so I think it's a mistake to have this kind of creature as the only 3-drops in your green section. So here's my top 6 for top green 3-drops that beat down:
The quality drops off pretty quickly after #6, and I'm not thrilled with most of what even makes this list. The other colors have great options for 3-drops that can hit for 3+ and provide solid value, like Brimaz, Vendilion Clique, and Ophiomancer. Even red's gotten better here with Goblin Rabblemaster, Goblin Heelcutter, and Sin Prodder while somehow green 3s have gotten the short end of the stick. I was pretty disappointed that Delirium didn't work out for cube, because I was really hoping that Inexorable Blob would help fill this slot with a proper value beater for a change. Nevertheless, I think it's wise to prioritize having a few beaters in your green section to help support aggressive and/or faster midrange decks.
As opposed to adding a new creature, what about something like Elephant Guide? This fits better I think with green as a splash on aggro (being G instead of GG) - thinking over ascetic here. It also technically makes a token, so still loosely supports that role.
I appreciate your outside the box thinking here, ahadabans, but Elephant Guide and Griffin Guide are actually on the watchlist in my Peasant cube. Cheap instant speed removal and exile effects still make these auras pretty risky. However, Curse of Predation is a great option here that I've been happy with.
I'm keeping an eye out for good green 3-drops that can hit hard and are resilient and provide value in Kaladesh, but if we don't get any I'll probably give Boon Satyr or Troll Ascetic another shot in my next update.
I'd agree if we were doing "Top 10 Most Powerful Green Three Drops". To me this list is more of an "Top 10 Green Three Drops in Order of Inclusion" list. When I think about what goes in the number one slot, I think about what card should pretty much every single cube (that doesn't have some sort of restriction) be running?
I get it, I just don't think it's all that valuable unless context is provided around the choices is all.
I think ahadabans has an important point here, the archetypes/theaters you're trying to support and the effects you're prioritizing in your green section go a long way towards informing what you want to include here. Calibretto and wtwlf are in agreement on their top 7-8:
These are all fantastic value creatures that provide at least a 2-for-1, and support ramp and/or recursion/blink strategies quite nicely. All of them make the cut in my list. However, as beatdown creatures they aren't what you want in a more aggressive deck as your 3-drop, so I think it's a mistake to have this kind of creature as the only 3-drops in your green section. So here's my top 6 for top green 3-drops that beat down:
The quality drops off pretty quickly after #6, and I'm not thrilled with most of what even makes this list. The other colors have great options for 3-drops that can hit for 3+ and provide solid value, like Brimaz, Vendilion Clique, and Ophiomancer. Even red's gotten better here with Goblin Rabblemaster, Goblin Heelcutter, and Sin Prodder while somehow green 3s have gotten the short end of the stick. I was pretty disappointed that Delirium didn't work out for cube, because I was really hoping that Inexorable Blob would help fill this slot with a proper value beater for a change. Nevertheless, I think it's wise to prioritize having a few beaters in your green section to help support aggressive and/or faster midrange decks.
As opposed to adding a new creature, what about something like Elephant Guide? This fits better I think with green as a splash on aggro (being G instead of GG) - thinking over ascetic here. It also technically makes a token, so still loosely supports that role.
I appreciate your outside the box thinking here, ahadabans, but Elephant Guide and Griffin Guide are actually on the watchlist in my Peasant cube. Cheap instant speed removal and exile effects still make these auras pretty risky. However, Curse of Predation is a great option here that I've been happy with.
I'm keeping an eye out for good green 3-drops that can hit hard and are resilient and provide value in Kaladesh, but if we don't get any I'll probably give Boon Satyr or Troll Ascetic another shot in my next update.
Curse of predation is so good. Every person who drafts my cube questions its inclusion once... Then plays against it.
I play 11 green three drops. Even the bottom of that list is in no immediate danger and is better than some noncreature spells I play, so it could potentially grow. Ranking by order of inclusion:
Selvala is great. It's like a chunky Rofellos. It draws the opponent cards but it draws you more cards. And it's something other than yet-another-ETB creature - something I'm trying to rectify slowly in my cube design is the saturation of 'safe' creatures with value triggers. The Selvala foil is just beautiful as well.
I'm currently playing her over the Sex Monkey duo, but the Elf may come back soon as we're thinking about readding fast mana for a bit.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds reminds me of those old school cards from the first half dozen years of Magic. It is a double-edged sword that can benefit your opponent quite a bit, but that can also give huge benefits to you if you can wield it correctly. It feels like they rarely made symmetric cards like her anymore. Oh, also the potential to create nutso amounts of mana. That is also something that Wizards is a lot more careful with today. I guess it is the combination of those two abilities that makes her feel like something from Urza block to me.
I didn't quite believe the hype about Tireless Tracker. I thought having only 2 toughness on a 3-drop that you want to keep around for a few turns was highly annoying. Saw her in action for the first time last weekend. I guess I do believe the hype now?
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
If the Oracle Text was altered to say you could play lands from the top, then yes, the judges would have to let you play lands from the top. However, since a ruling beneath it that was designed to help make things easier to understand is wrong, there's no such issue.
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*I want to add a little more 'oompf' to the token decks, to reward getting decent numbers into play, so I will be re-adding Elesh Norn and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar as anthems, as well as Gaea's Cradle.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
As opposed to adding a new creature, what about something like Elephant Guide? This fits better I think with green as a splash on aggro (being G instead of GG) - thinking over ascetic here. It also technically makes a token, so still loosely supports that role.
You are running both cultivate and Kodama's Reach, so not sure you really need more ramp support (of the land fetch variety). If you did want more, I think Wood Elves is sweet (or flip Nissa maybe but it doesn't technically ramp). WE is sweet with Natural Order too.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
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02 Courser of Kruphix
03 Reclamation Sage
04 Den Protector
05 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
06 Yavimaya Elder
07 Uktabi Orangutan
08 Tireless Tracker
09 Boon Satyr
10 Ainok Survivalist
Note that I choose to run Uktabi Orangutan over Viridian Shaman just for nostalgia. I don't think one is better than the other, as the elf up-side on Shaman is minimal. I wouldn't run both until the cube got enormous. I'd rather have the different effect on Ainok Survivalist.
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02 Reclamation Sage
03 Den Protector
04 Yavimaya Elder
05 Courser of Kruphix
06 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
07 Viridian Shaman
08 Uktabi Orangutan
09 Tireless Tracker
10 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
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I do agree though that Eternal Witness is a card that virtually all cubes should at least consider including because of the massive depth of play it offers. But everything else I feel is customizable, especially at this particular color CC slot. There are easily 20 green 3's you could justify at virtually any power level depending on the composition of your cube and player base.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I'd agree if we were doing "Top 10 Most Powerful Green Three Drops". To me this list is more of an "Top 10 Green Three Drops in Order of Inclusion" list. When I think about what goes in the number one slot, I think about what card should pretty much every single cube (that doesn't have some sort of restriction) be running? That card, for me, is Eternal Witness. I did the same with the rest of my list. For my cube, this list stops at number eight, but if I were to go up in size and warrant another three drop, that card would most likely be Boon Satyr. If I go up large enough to warrant two more green three's, I probably need another answer for artifacts/enchantments, which is why Ainok Survivalist is in that list.
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I think ahadabans has an important point here, the archetypes/theaters you're trying to support and the effects you're prioritizing in your green section go a long way towards informing what you want to include here. Calibretto and wtwlf are in agreement on their top 7-8:
Eternal Witness
Reclamation Sage
Den Protector
Yavimaya Elder
Courser of Kruphix
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Viridian Shaman/Uktabi Orangutan
These are all fantastic value creatures that provide at least a 2-for-1, and support ramp and/or recursion/blink strategies quite nicely. All of them make the cut in my list. However, as beatdown creatures they aren't what you want in a more aggressive deck as your 3-drop, so I think it's a mistake to have this kind of creature as the only 3-drops in your green section. So here's my top 6 for top green 3-drops that beat down:
The quality drops off pretty quickly after #6, and I'm not thrilled with most of what even makes this list. The other colors have great options for 3-drops that can hit for 3+ and provide solid value, like Brimaz, Vendilion Clique, and Ophiomancer. Even red's gotten better here with Goblin Rabblemaster, Goblin Heelcutter, and Sin Prodder while somehow green 3s have gotten the short end of the stick. I was pretty disappointed that Delirium didn't work out for cube, because I was really hoping that Inexorable Blob would help fill this slot with a proper value beater for a change. Nevertheless, I think it's wise to prioritize having a few beaters in your green section to help support aggressive and/or faster midrange decks.
I appreciate your outside the box thinking here, ahadabans, but Elephant Guide and Griffin Guide are actually on the watchlist in my Peasant cube. Cheap instant speed removal and exile effects still make these auras pretty risky. However, Curse of Predation is a great option here that I've been happy with.
I'm keeping an eye out for good green 3-drops that can hit hard and are resilient and provide value in Kaladesh, but if we don't get any I'll probably give Boon Satyr or Troll Ascetic another shot in my next update.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Curse of predation is so good. Every person who drafts my cube questions its inclusion once... Then plays against it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
1) Reclamation Sage
2) Eternal Witness
3) Courser of Kruphix
4) Den Protector
5) Tireless Tracker
6) Yavimaya Elder
7) Viridian Shaman
8) Selvala, Heart of the Wilds (still in testing though)
9) Nissa, Vastwood Seer
10) Uktabi Orangutan
11) Wood Elves
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This guy gets it.
..........
Her ceiling is crazy high, and I don't think any of the cards outside of the top 9 are particularly competitive.
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I'm currently playing her over the Sex Monkey duo, but the Elf may come back soon as we're thinking about readding fast mana for a bit.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
In theory it can, but in practice, it pretty much drew each player one card.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I didn't quite believe the hype about Tireless Tracker. I thought having only 2 toughness on a 3-drop that you want to keep around for a few turns was highly annoying. Saw her in action for the first time last weekend. I guess I do believe the hype now?
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