In addition to what CadBloom here advocates, Archangel of Thune is a rather strong one, both as a card on its own and as support for both lifegain and token archetypes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
In addition to what CadBloom here advocates, Archangel of Thune is a rather strong one, both as a card on its own and as support for both lifegain and token archetypes.
White has riches in the 5CC space. We run Archangel of Thune and it's a monster if you support it correctly. It really comes down to the archetype support when choosing.
In addition to what CadBloom here advocates, Archangel of Thune is a rather strong one, both as a card on its own and as support for both lifegain and token archetypes.
White has riches in the 5CC space. We run Archangel of Thune and it's a monster if you support it correctly. It really comes down to the archetype support when choosing.
Yah, good points. I totally missed the Archangel. I'd probably run that ahead of Sunscorch Regent if there was a lifegain archetype present (wallet willing).
Thanks everyone for their replies to my last question, it helped a great deal!
I already have another one: I decided now to cut down my MP cube to 360 cards and cut out the most expensive ones because as a first step i REALLY want to finish the cube and then afterwards and within the next years I will probably get those 10$++ cards..
Anyways, since I need to cut so many cards, I wanted to ask you guys with 360 MP cube experience:
a) Which cards survive the Gold Section? I saw that most people tend to play either 2 or 3 spells and 3-4 lands for each guild. So.. which cards do you think are absolute MUST haves (Top 1 and 2) for the guild section?
b) Are there any archetypes that you would NOT Support anymore (or try to support) at 360? Any archetypes that can't survive without specific EXPENSIVE cards?
Thanks and, again, I appreciate your help!
Reanimator and Mega-ramp type decks get a lot worse when you cut out their top-end.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Thanks everyone for their replies to my last question, it helped a great deal!
I already have another one: I decided now to cut down my MP cube to 360 cards and cut out the most expensive ones because as a first step i REALLY want to finish the cube and then afterwards and within the next years I will probably get those 10$++ cards..
Anyways, since I need to cut so many cards, I wanted to ask you guys with 360 MP cube experience:
a) Which cards survive the Gold Section? I saw that most people tend to play either 2 or 3 spells and 3-4 lands for each guild. So.. which cards do you think are absolute MUST haves (Top 1 and 2) for the guild section?
b) Are there any archetypes that you would NOT Support anymore (or try to support) at 360? Any archetypes that can't survive without specific EXPENSIVE cards?
Thanks and, again, I appreciate your help!
Here's my thoughts on the guild section on a budget keeping in mind I have a 890 card commander cube
B/R
I like the mix of abilities on Rakdos Charm and find it's a great utility card to have available and I think the second slot goes to Olivia Voldaren.
R/G Xenagos, God of Revels for sure and either Decimate or Hull Breach depending on which removal option you prefer. We usually play larger games so Decimate would get the nod.
a) Which cards survive the Gold Section? I saw that most people tend to play either 2 or 3 spells and 3-4 lands for each guild. So.. which cards do you think are absolute MUST haves (Top 1 and 2) for the guild section?
b) Are there any archetypes that you would NOT Support anymore (or try to support) at 360? Any archetypes that can't survive without specific EXPENSIVE cards?
Pretty hard to run white equipment archetypes without Stoneforge Mystic, all the Swords of X&Y, Jitte and Batterskull. That doesn't mean don't try, though (still possible with Stonehewer Giant and cheaper equipment, just slower).
EDIT: I've also finally had a chance to look at your list, and thought you'd see it better if I rammed it into the bottom of this post (rather than keep spamming the thread like I have today)! Soo...
I'm looking at your current 362 on CubeTutor, so I know you're still working on the list. Things that I'd consider:
Reveillark is good, but it's very much one half of a two-card combo. You've not got Body Double, for one, so I reckon I'd probably swap this for something else. There's some really good discussion on white 5-drops back in the thread a bit, and I'd probably look hard at Sunscorch Regent here, given your budget and lifegain archetype.
I would keep my eye on Balance and Tinker. They're capable of some completely busted play. See how your playgroup copes with them, anyway.
I actually ended up dropping all the little blue one-shot library manipulators (Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain), as no-one ever got all of them together in the one deck, and they inevitably didn't end up decked. You probably need a really strong Izzet spells-matter archetype to make these work.
Waste Not is a beautiful, beautiful card, but it needs forced discard around it to work. And I think the only thing you've got in black for it is Syphon Mind, so it's probably not going to work too well. What you do have is a really strong Pox / group sacrifice archetype. I would almost be tempted to swap it for Dictate of Erebos (as another Grave Pact effect).
Anything else that you guys think is worth running?
Vizkopa Guildmage.
Actually, let me fix that for you... VIZKOPA GUILDMAGE.
It's this archetype's finisher. You really, really want it in (even if it's starting to clutter up Orzhov, along with Ayli and Karlov... it's that good).
As an added example of Vizkopa Guildmage's game-finishing powers, allow me to share something I managed about a month ago in a 2HG game out of my cube.
I drafted the Orzhov lifegain archetype hard, as it was open.
My teammate and I spent the first 6-7 turns getting utterly pounded, until I slowly started to stabilize by dropping Grave Titan followed by Wurmcoil Engine. We were under 20 life with our opponents close to 50. Then... watch me end the game in three turns...
Turn... er... 9, from memory? I dunno. Something like that: Draw SoLaS. Play it and equip to Wurmcoil. I have a Weathered Wayfarer out, and I can use it. It fetches Rogue's Passage, which I then activate on Wurmcoil. It swings through for eight damage, and we gain 11 (thanks to the incidental 3 extra life from SoLaS).
Turn 10: Draw Liliana Vess, play her and -2 her to fetch Vizkopa Guildmage. Once again get Wurmcoil through for the same. We're now at about 40 life with our opponents on 30.
Turn 11: Drop Vizkopa, swing again with Wurmcoil for the same, activate the Guildmage's second ability. We've gained 11 life this turn, so it drains 22 off the opposing team after they took 8 from Wurmcoil. A clean 30 life lost in one turn thanks to Vizkopa. GG.
Ok, that's a really compelling argument. I'll pick up a copy of Vizkopa Guildmage and run her in Karlov's slot, who's been ok but not great so far. Maybe I'll also run Cutthroat over Merciless Executioner for a bit while I'm at it.
Thanks for the feedback on 5 drops. Reading your opinions helped sort it out for me
I mentioned Avacyn and Achangel of Thrune was talked about, but I don't have either so they are out for now. Although if I had one, Avacyn would be in instantly.
I will be keeping Baneslayer and Wingmate Roc in. They are great in almost any deck and Roc helps the token theme. After that, Reveillark stays since I've added a bit of a sacrifice theme. For the same reason I'm going to leave in both Herald of the Host and Archon of Justice. I don't support life gain otherwise I would have given Sunscorch Regent a shot.
I feel 2 cards is not a lot even for 360 and would up it to at least 3 + 3-4 lands (or 3 lands, 1 signet). Either way good luck! I know I really enjoy the options in my gold section, but making the choices is excruciating!
Not a huge fan of Behold the Beyond, as it seems like another slow, dumb tutor, and arguably worse than the ones we have already (and you don't seem to be jamming), like Diabolic Revelation - One more mana gets you the same number of cards without having to discard, and you can go up from there.
ASD->Seasons Past seems like a good change.
Legion's Initiative never really panned out for me so Nahiri seems fine there.
New Sorin seems like a decent swap for Magister. I don't have room for either of them in my cube.
Anguished Unmaking is a massive improvement over Utter End, for sure.
Jarad->Gitrog seems fine as well.
So I guess Behold the Beyond seems like the only thing I'd object to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I made that comparison too, but i want to try it as an enabler not only as a tutor. You can discard some fatties and tutor living death, or some artifact and grab scrap mastery, or simply discard kozi or ulamog and shuffle back your graveyard.
I'm testing it but i really appreciate your advice!
What about Demonic Collusion then? seems more streamlined for a tutor for a reanimator piece + a discard outlet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Re: Reveillark
I already own the Reveillark so cost is not a concern with this card.. don't know if it's good though as I haven't played it myself, yet..and I wasn't even aware of the interaction with Body Double..
Sunscorch Regent seems kinda "meh" to me but maybe I'm just stupid as I've never played with the card..
Re: Tinker & Balance
I think Balance & Tinker are fine in the cube as the player who builds his deck with those cards usually gets hated out first..my playgroup is all about politics and dicussion, so..
Re: Blue Cantrips
I feel you, maybe I should just cut the Brainstorm as there aren't THAT many shuffle effects to abuse and I don't even play all 10 fetches (yet)?
Re: Waste Not
I agree about Waste Not but I (and people in my group) LOVE (and hate) the card and I would really like to play it.. do you think if I add maybe 1/2 other strong discard spells, it might work out? As of now, I have Windfall, Syphon Mind, Reforge the Soul and Pox/Smallpox, but not much more..
Re: Exploration
I might just swap it out, Traverse the Ulvenwald seems fun! Which one do you think is more powerful? Traverse or Oath of Nissa?
Re: Life from the Loam
What would you replace Life from the Loam and Titania with?
I reckon I'd just roll with Reveillark, Tinker, Balance and the blue cantrips for now, and see how they play. What you want to watch for is that Tinker and Balance aren't unfun auto-wins on resolution, and that Lark / Brainstorm / Ponder etc. are actually being decked and used. If they don't do any of that, keep 'em in. Probably depends on how your playgroup reacts to them, to an extent. Waste Not probably needs a couple more repeatable forced discard effects, preferably black ones. Cunning Lethemancer / Necrogen Mists, perhaps? Or even Painful Quandary / Oppression? Dunno. I've not tried an archetype like that in Cube before. Should work in theory, though. You could probably stray it into blue with Jace's Archivist and Warped Devotion + repeated bounce.
I haven't played with Traverse the Ulvenwald yet, so it depends on how easily you can turn the Delerium mode on. But Oath of Nissa is good fun - I've had it turn up in mid-draft a couple of times and had it tempt me into drafting off-colour planeswalkers for a Superfriends build! Even without the planeswalker business, it's still essentially a green Ponder that triggers Enchantress effects - it's pretty useful.
I see you've beaten me to Loam and Titania replacements in your list (that's cool... it was a long weekend here!)... I was probably just going to suggest a couple more cards that fit the existing archetypes.
When are you planning on giving this a real-life roll? Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
I ran into New Sorin in a free-for-all multiplayer game a few nights ago, and he was a BAD MAN. No idea how I'd get it into my cube, though... can't see him unseating his original Orzhov brother, good as he is. Jeepers, Orzhov got tight all of a sudden...
I'm about to make the purchases for my multiplayer cube. The goal of this cube is to be budget (cards under $2.00 with some exceptions) and to facilitate games of 3-6 players. The power level is deliberately on the lower side and also to showcase cards that wouldn't see play in regular decks or cubes. I also have a political subtheme involving the entire group making choices, such as through Will of the Council, Thieves' Auction, Curse of the Cabal etc. It's definitely intended to encourage winning through politicking over regular skill level.
Also if you could take the time to draft it, I would really appreciate it.
Just drafted your cube, and it was enjoyable. I think the only recommendations I have are:
1. Maybe to include another batch of inexpensive fetchlands in your cube. It feels like you would have to mulligan very aggressively, or pray for good land topdecks, to reliably fix a 3 color deck.
2. A couple commons here and there seem especially weak, even for a fun budget cube, such as snake of the golden grove. I think you could easily, and significantly upgrade a few of those, even while staying well within your budget. For instance, a fantastic cube card like polukranos is < $1.50, and fills practically the same niche as the snake.
Finally, if you'd like to log some cube drafts, I recommend wading into the "draft the last poster's cube" thread. Folks there are very friendly, helpful, and seem to enjoy occasionally breaking up the parade of "normal" cubes with a multiplayer themed one. Here's the link:
I disagree that you need to add more single target removal if you're adding more combat tricks. In fact, I'd steer away from it, as it makes the already-unattractive combat tricks even more unattractive because you're offering frequent 2-for-1's.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I can think of only a handful of combat trick cards I would want to include in a multiplayer cube. Even then, those cards all need to either have a different mode, or the combat trick-part of the card is incidental to another powerful effect, such as racking up additional etb triggers or drawing a ton of cards.
EDIT: 10-11 wraths doesn't seem that excessive, especially if you classify some of your redmass burn spells, and bluemass-bounce as wraths. Each of your colors (possibly excluding green) should probably have at least a couple ways to nuke the board.
Multiplayer combat can still be plenty exciting, even when the p/t math seems like an obvious equation. It's at that point that politics, deal making, and worrying about overcommitting to killing one opponent enters the calculation.
Lots of combat tricks can actually be counter productive to stalled board states. People are actually less inclined to attack into boards where they can get blown out arbitrarily by someone's instant effect.
It may seem boring to build a multiplayer cube with pure "good stuff" or value cards, but I can assure you that there are plenty of novel synergies and unexpected events can occur in a FFA cube session.
Hi everyone. Got a question for the multiplayer community:
I am currently working on a 360 card conspiracy-themed FFA cube. I've collected all of the relevant conspiracy and draft construct cards, and plan to curate the selection using whatever good options this summer's second set reveals. What in folks opinions would be the appropriate % of conspiracy/draft affecting cards to include in the final cube list? I calculated the incidence of these types of cards in the retail set at about 5%. Did folks that drafted conspiracy feel there should have been more or less of those effects overall?
Hi everyone. Got a question for the multiplayer community:
I am currently working on a 360 card conspiracy-themed FFA cube. I've collected all of the relevant conspiracy and draft construct cards, and plan to curate the selection using whatever good options this summer's second set reveals. What in folks opinions would be the appropriate % of conspiracy/draft affecting cards to include in the final cube list? I calculated the incidence of these types of cards in the retail set at about 5%. Did folks that drafted conspiracy feel there should have been more or less of those effects overall?
Thanks!
Conspiracies are inherently some of the most powerful (i.e. winningest) cards in the game and compete favorably with the likes of the power 9. This is because in the average Cube draft you will always end up cutting cards (obtaining enough playables is virtually never a legitimate concern) which means that you should actively draft and play 100% of the Conspiracies that you see (barring utterly ridiculous first pick cards such as Library of Alexandria and Sol Ring). They will always make your final deck as they're free value above and beyond your final build. Everyone is going to walk out of the draft with more then enough playables so the people who have Conspiracies to go above and beyond are advantaged. The idea is that given N "average" decks everyone should roughly generate a 1/N win% but Conspiracies give you that extra nudge that puts you slightly above "average" which in turn leads to a higher overall win%. That is, when adding them to your Cube you have to imagine that you're jamming more "Power 9" into it because those are colorless cards that will be picked highly, drafted and played literally 100% of the time. Think of them as Sol Rings in that sense and you won't be too far from the mark. If you want an extremely high-powered format then play a lot of them. If you want to temper it then play fewer. There's no objectively correct answer one way or another but make no mistake that Conspiracies are among the winningest Cube cards in the game.
Thanks, Prid3. I will keep your feedback in mind as I weigh the inclusion of backup plan, double stroke, advantageous proclamation, and worldknit against potentially broken or combo-rific cards in my final list. I'm currently working on a conspiracy cube that I intend to have mostly different contents in than my normal edh cube. The developing 1st draft list is located here, in case anyone is interested in a look. Your recent discussions in the "Rethinking Multiplayer Magic" thread were also very helpful to me.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
White has riches in the 5CC space. We run Archangel of Thune and it's a monster if you support it correctly. It really comes down to the archetype support when choosing.
Yah, good points. I totally missed the Archangel. I'd probably run that ahead of Sunscorch Regent if there was a lifegain archetype present (wallet willing).
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Right now I'm running a small Soul Sisters package since the parts play decently evenly separately:
Anything else that you guys think is worth running?
Reanimator and Mega-ramp type decks get a lot worse when you cut out their top-end.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
U/W
These are all support cards in my cube for either blink or control so it depends on what you want to support. For control I like Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict. Blink is Brago, King Eternal and Mistmeadow Witch with Venser, the Sojourner being an option that also helps more aggressive strategies by making your team unblockable.
U/B
Lim-Dul's Vault is a very strong card though my favorite card is Notion Thief. Wrexial, the Risen Deep is a good choice for multiplayer.
B/R
I like the mix of abilities on Rakdos Charm and find it's a great utility card to have available and I think the second slot goes to Olivia Voldaren.
R/G
Xenagos, God of Revels for sure and either Decimate or Hull Breach depending on which removal option you prefer. We usually play larger games so Decimate would get the nod.
G/W
Definitely Mirari's Wake then if Gaddock Teeg is too pricey I would get Aura Shards.
W/B
Anguished Unmaking or if that's too much then Utter End as a placeholder. After that I like Ashen Rider if you want a big bomb or Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim to open up some options with lifegain.
G/B
Pernicious Deed is by far the best card here. I like Lord of Extinction as a random huge creature for things that care about that (like Greater Good and Warstorm Surge).
U/G
Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Progenitor Mimic. If you're really pushing bant blink then Mystic Snake over the Mimic.
U/R
Nin, the Pain Artist and Dack Fayden for his theft ability but he's also expensive. Keranos, God of Storms is next in line for me and if not that then Dack's Duplicate.
R/W
Sunforger! Boros Charm makes a great target or if you need more removal go with Wear // Tear.
My group loves gold, so I am currently at 6 for allied guilds and 5 for enemy (with the lands on top of that). And that's at 360. If your playgroup has similar aurophilia, I wouldn't hold back.
That said, the ones I would probably stick in the top two for each guild (without looking up power rankings results, cube lists or anything like that, and using only my unreliable brain), and keeping it under $10 a card...
Azorius: It's a bit of a wasteland, but probably Venser, the Sojourner and Sphinx's Reveleation. But consider Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict and Drogskol Reaver.
Dimir: Consuming Aberration, Havengul Lich
Rakdos: Kaervek the Merciless, Falkenrath Aristocrat (damn Olivia Voldaren being just out of our budget!)
Gruul: Xenagos, the Reveler, and ... er... is Dragonlair Spider still under the threshold? Otherwise, I tend to like Gruul Charm, as Gruul tends to have its creatures stolen a lot in my cube.
Selesnya: Mirari's Wake, Aura Shards
Orzhov: Vizkopa Guildmage, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (assuming he's under $10 without looking... otherwise, a removal spell like Utter End or Mortify)
Izzet: Mercurial Chemister, Ral Zarek. I guess... this slot is a bit of a wasteland too.
Golgari: Pernicious Deed, Deathreap Ritual (sooo many bombs in here, though... I can't believe I had to leave Deathrite Shaman off that list, for one).
Boros: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Assemble the Legion. Gisela is not to everyone's tastes, and won't be under $10 for ever (it was reprinted in C15, so it's under for now).
Simic: Prophet of Kruphix, Spitting Image (though there are definitely arguments for Master Biomancer, Prime Speaker Zegana and Progenitor Mimic)
Pretty hard to run white equipment archetypes without Stoneforge Mystic, all the Swords of X&Y, Jitte and Batterskull. That doesn't mean don't try, though (still possible with Stonehewer Giant and cheaper equipment, just slower).
EDIT: I've also finally had a chance to look at your list, and thought you'd see it better if I rammed it into the bottom of this post (rather than keep spamming the thread like I have today)! Soo...
I'm looking at your current 362 on CubeTutor, so I know you're still working on the list. Things that I'd consider:
The rest of it looks like a giant bag of fun, though. You guys are going to have a blast.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Vizkopa Guildmage.
Actually, let me fix that for you... VIZKOPA GUILDMAGE.
It's this archetype's finisher. You really, really want it in (even if it's starting to clutter up Orzhov, along with Ayli and Karlov... it's that good).
I'd also strongly consider Zulaport Cutthroat, too.
Other than that, there are loads of other cards in my cube in Orzhov that happen to coincidentally gain life, and every single one of them becomes a potential game-winner next to Vizkopa... Baneslayer Angel, Wurmcoil Engine, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Sunscorch Regent, Wingmate Roc....
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I drafted the Orzhov lifegain archetype hard, as it was open.
My teammate and I spent the first 6-7 turns getting utterly pounded, until I slowly started to stabilize by dropping Grave Titan followed by Wurmcoil Engine. We were under 20 life with our opponents close to 50. Then... watch me end the game in three turns...
Turn... er... 9, from memory? I dunno. Something like that: Draw SoLaS. Play it and equip to Wurmcoil. I have a Weathered Wayfarer out, and I can use it. It fetches Rogue's Passage, which I then activate on Wurmcoil. It swings through for eight damage, and we gain 11 (thanks to the incidental 3 extra life from SoLaS).
Turn 10: Draw Liliana Vess, play her and -2 her to fetch Vizkopa Guildmage. Once again get Wurmcoil through for the same. We're now at about 40 life with our opponents on 30.
Turn 11: Drop Vizkopa, swing again with Wurmcoil for the same, activate the Guildmage's second ability. We've gained 11 life this turn, so it drains 22 off the opposing team after they took 8 from Wurmcoil. A clean 30 life lost in one turn thanks to Vizkopa. GG.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I mentioned Avacyn and Achangel of Thrune was talked about, but I don't have either so they are out for now. Although if I had one, Avacyn would be in instantly.
I will be keeping Baneslayer and Wingmate Roc in. They are great in almost any deck and Roc helps the token theme. After that, Reveillark stays since I've added a bit of a sacrifice theme. For the same reason I'm going to leave in both Herald of the Host and Archon of Justice. I don't support life gain otherwise I would have given Sunscorch Regent a shot.
As for MP guild cards here are my top 2 (+1 extra if budget is a factor)
Azorius: Sphinx's Revelation, Brago, King Eternal (control and blink!)
Dimir: Sire of Stagnation, Baleful Strix. One is a busted draw engine, the other a very solid low drop. I'd go with Havengul Lich if the strix is expensive.
Gruul: Kessig Wolf-Run, Dragonlord Atarka. Wolf-run turns anyone into a threat and the dragon is big and has a nice ETB effect.
Rakdos: Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Olivia Voldaren. Grenzo fits anywhere in the curve and is an excellent mana sink. If Olivia is too expensive, Falkenrath Aristocrat is still great!
Selesnya: Mirari's Wake, Aura Shards. Mega ramp and value...
Boros: Assemble the Legion, Boros Reckoner. Legion is a nice kill condition that requires no effort. I like cards that play well in aggro and control, and Reckoner fits the bill! Plus with Earthquake type effects he is brutal.
Izzet: Dack Fayden, Keranos, God of Storms. Both are expensive, so Dack's Duplicate is still a very good card and after that...Desolate Lighthouse?
Orzhov: One of either Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking, Utter End. After that Vizkopa Guildmage is a good option.
Simic: Prophet of Kruphix, Trygon Predator. There are some splashier cards than predator, but he is just great value for a 3 drop, so I tend to prioritize him before fatties.
I feel 2 cards is not a lot even for 360 and would up it to at least 3 + 3-4 lands (or 3 lands, 1 signet). Either way good luck! I know I really enjoy the options in my gold section, but making the choices is excruciating!
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
ASD->Seasons Past seems like a good change.
Legion's Initiative never really panned out for me so Nahiri seems fine there.
New Sorin seems like a decent swap for Magister. I don't have room for either of them in my cube.
Anguished Unmaking is a massive improvement over Utter End, for sure.
Jarad->Gitrog seems fine as well.
So I guess Behold the Beyond seems like the only thing I'd object to.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
What about Demonic Collusion then? seems more streamlined for a tutor for a reanimator piece + a discard outlet.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I reckon I'd just roll with Reveillark, Tinker, Balance and the blue cantrips for now, and see how they play. What you want to watch for is that Tinker and Balance aren't unfun auto-wins on resolution, and that Lark / Brainstorm / Ponder etc. are actually being decked and used. If they don't do any of that, keep 'em in. Probably depends on how your playgroup reacts to them, to an extent.
Waste Not probably needs a couple more repeatable forced discard effects, preferably black ones. Cunning Lethemancer / Necrogen Mists, perhaps? Or even Painful Quandary / Oppression? Dunno. I've not tried an archetype like that in Cube before. Should work in theory, though. You could probably stray it into blue with Jace's Archivist and Warped Devotion + repeated bounce.
I haven't played with Traverse the Ulvenwald yet, so it depends on how easily you can turn the Delerium mode on. But Oath of Nissa is good fun - I've had it turn up in mid-draft a couple of times and had it tempt me into drafting off-colour planeswalkers for a Superfriends build! Even without the planeswalker business, it's still essentially a green Ponder that triggers Enchantress effects - it's pretty useful.
I see you've beaten me to Loam and Titania replacements in your list (that's cool... it was a long weekend here!)... I was probably just going to suggest a couple more cards that fit the existing archetypes.
When are you planning on giving this a real-life roll? Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
White Shield Crusader -> Thalia's Lieutenant
See the Unwritten -> Seasons Past
I ran into New Sorin in a free-for-all multiplayer game a few nights ago, and he was a BAD MAN. No idea how I'd get it into my cube, though... can't see him unseating his original Orzhov brother, good as he is. Jeepers, Orzhov got tight all of a sudden...
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Vote for the best BFZ / OGW / C15 Multiplayer cards over in the Multiplayer forum (as run by me).
I'm hoping to somehow incorporate the results back into the existing Best Multiplayer Cards Available list once it's done.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I'm about to make the purchases for my multiplayer cube. The goal of this cube is to be budget (cards under $2.00 with some exceptions) and to facilitate games of 3-6 players. The power level is deliberately on the lower side and also to showcase cards that wouldn't see play in regular decks or cubes. I also have a political subtheme involving the entire group making choices, such as through Will of the Council, Thieves' Auction, Curse of the Cabal etc. It's definitely intended to encourage winning through politicking over regular skill level.
Also if you could take the time to draft it, I would really appreciate it.
http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/26016
For all of your Magic art needs, check out my tumblr The Art of Magic.
1. Maybe to include another batch of inexpensive fetch lands in your cube. It feels like you would have to mulligan very aggressively, or pray for good land topdecks, to reliably fix a 3 color deck.
2. A couple commons here and there seem especially weak, even for a fun budget cube, such as snake of the golden grove. I think you could easily, and significantly upgrade a few of those, even while staying well within your budget. For instance, a fantastic cube card like polukranos is < $1.50, and fills practically the same niche as the snake.
Finally, if you'd like to log some cube drafts, I recommend wading into the "draft the last poster's cube" thread. Folks there are very friendly, helpful, and seem to enjoy occasionally breaking up the parade of "normal" cubes with a multiplayer themed one. Here's the link:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/488984-draft-the-above-persons-cube
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I disagree that you need to add more single target removal if you're adding more combat tricks. In fact, I'd steer away from it, as it makes the already-unattractive combat tricks even more unattractive because you're offering frequent 2-for-1's.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Here are the ones that came to mind: azorius charm, wake the dead, valorous stance, hunter's insight, mirror mockery (sort of), ghostly flicker, cloudshift, cauldron dance, boros charm, & hunter's prowess (just realized H'sP isn't an instant, so maybe not...).
EDIT: 10-11 wraths doesn't seem that excessive, especially if you classify some of your red mass burn spells, and blue mass-bounce as wraths. Each of your colors (possibly excluding green) should probably have at least a couple ways to nuke the board.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Lots of combat tricks can actually be counter productive to stalled board states. People are actually less inclined to attack into boards where they can get blown out arbitrarily by someone's instant effect.
It may seem boring to build a multiplayer cube with pure "good stuff" or value cards, but I can assure you that there are plenty of novel synergies and unexpected events can occur in a FFA cube session.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I am currently working on a 360 card conspiracy-themed FFA cube. I've collected all of the relevant conspiracy and draft construct cards, and plan to curate the selection using whatever good options this summer's second set reveals. What in folks opinions would be the appropriate % of conspiracy/draft affecting cards to include in the final cube list? I calculated the incidence of these types of cards in the retail set at about 5%. Did folks that drafted conspiracy feel there should have been more or less of those effects overall?
Thanks!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Conspiracies are inherently some of the most powerful (i.e. winningest) cards in the game and compete favorably with the likes of the power 9. This is because in the average Cube draft you will always end up cutting cards (obtaining enough playables is virtually never a legitimate concern) which means that you should actively draft and play 100% of the Conspiracies that you see (barring utterly ridiculous first pick cards such as Library of Alexandria and Sol Ring). They will always make your final deck as they're free value above and beyond your final build. Everyone is going to walk out of the draft with more then enough playables so the people who have Conspiracies to go above and beyond are advantaged. The idea is that given N "average" decks everyone should roughly generate a 1/N win% but Conspiracies give you that extra nudge that puts you slightly above "average" which in turn leads to a higher overall win%. That is, when adding them to your Cube you have to imagine that you're jamming more "Power 9" into it because those are colorless cards that will be picked highly, drafted and played literally 100% of the time. Think of them as Sol Rings in that sense and you won't be too far from the mark. If you want an extremely high-powered format then play a lot of them. If you want to temper it then play fewer. There's no objectively correct answer one way or another but make no mistake that Conspiracies are among the winningest Cube cards in the game.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."