Would it be possible to do a Pox subtheme instead of a Pox supertheme? Basically just adding in Pox, Smallpox and Reassembling Skeleton into a traditional black section? I mean, it already includes Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Braids, Crucible, Liliana, Loam and Smokestack. I may try that out instead of going "all-in" on the Pox mega theme.
I like this idea better then going all-in, which might give to many slots to mediocre (or narrow, hard to cast) cards. Slots are expensive these days. Supporting Reanimator, black aggro and black control, while leaving room for the powerfull midrange bombs, discard and tutors, means that the room for new archetypes is very limited unless you severly weaken one of the other black sections.
I might talk something like this over with Fredo for our cube. Pox is such a brutal card and it feels so black and has very cool artwork.
Looking at your list, I think that's almost all you really need. That's essentially all we're running, and it's been incredible.
Honestly I think the only difference between my list and yours at that point would be Nether Traitor and Carrion Feeder. I think you can do without Nether Traitor if you don't want to go that far, but I do think you should play Carrion Feeder. It's way, way, better than you think (or at least it's better than we thought), and he helps the whole deck a lot.
Carrion Feeder would be a part of that update. There would be a few big changes (adding in the 3 Pox engines) and then a few smaller ones changing creatures from one thing into another.
In this archetype:
Bone Shredder vs Fleshbag Marauder
Sewer Nemesis vs Marsh Flitter
Liliana's Specter vs Bloodline Keeper
Carrion Feeder would be a part of that update. There would be a few big changes (adding in the 3 Pox engines) and then a few smaller ones changing creatures from one thing into another.
I might end up doing something like this as well. Especially in a smaller Cube, there are only so many slots, but there are already quite a few cards that work well with Pox in traditional lists.
I might end up doing something like this as well. Especially in a smaller Cube, there are only so many slots, but there are already quite a few cards that work well with Pox in traditional lists.
I'll probably end up cutting Fume Spitter for Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Shade for Reassembling Skeleton, a 2cc removal spell for Smallpox, Puppateer Clique for Pox, and Profane Command for Death Cloud.
I'm also thinking about those three creature changes above, but I don't know how important Flitter/Keeper/Marauder are to the archetype.
I'll probably end up cutting Fume Spitter for Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Shade for Reassembling Skeleton, a 2cc removal spell for Smallpox, Puppateer Clique for Pox, and Profane Command for Death Cloud.
I'm also thinking about those three creature changes above, but I don't know how important Flitter/Keeper/Marauder are to the archetype.
I guess four mana could be rather expensive, and if you get there it is probably because you play a green version, so green token makers should suffice.
I'll probably end up cutting Fume Spitter for Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Shade for Reassembling Skeleton, a 2cc removal spell for Smallpox, Puppateer Clique for Pox, and Profane Command for Death Cloud.
I'm also thinking about those three creature changes above, but I don't know how important Flitter/Keeper/Marauder are to the archetype.
You wouldn't even consider Nether Traitor? I'm just curious because I'm moving in to this archetype too and that card seems sweet. And I'm also wondering along with you about going nuclear with this update, Kojiro said that's what he did and he'll remove cards as he sees fit, but I might try the slower approach and add until it gets there.
And for those that run marsh flitter, why is it needed in this deck? I guess if you have death cloud? Forgot about braids, smokestack, and the like, since they're already in cube
Those cuts seem reasonable but Nantuko Shade is great in black aggro, midrange and control, and is still probably pretty darn good in Pox. I'm not sure he's the right cut.
Those cuts seem reasonable but Nantuko Shade is great in black aggro, midrange and control, and is still probably pretty darn good in Pox. I'm not sure he's the right cut.
Shade has been filler for my group. I think it's a fine cut myself.
Stax/Pox strategies are very mana efficient and would rather have creatures you don't have to sink mana into.
I'm still trying to put my finger on Death Cloud. Did it see any play?
What does everybody else with experience with it think of the card?
I played Death Cloud twice, one on two and another time on three as a curve-topper when I had disposable recurring threats available and it won both games.
They didn't think much of the card until it started owning it up. Even in an aggressive shell, it played great. I can't wait to see it in a more mid-rangey deck with even more ways to really abuse it.
I have also added Rotting Rats recently. They actually work fine with this strategy and with reanimation. It aren't a star player, but can serve a role in several different black archetypes.
And it's a Rat Zombie. The two most important black creature types.
We have been playing Mog War Marshall for a long time and it has been stellar, even without hip Pox themes. It gives three bodies for 2 mana, it shines with Clamp, Recurring Nightmare and has a lot of small synergies with tons of cards.
It is less in your face then some other two drops, but it gives a lot of value. Even without tricks, it has been well worth it. The extra body is nice, and just chump blocking is ok as the initial cost is so low.
War Marshal was good in all my BBr Pox decks I played yesterday.
I also have some discussion on the last page of my thread about the Pox decks I drafted, the changes I made in my cube and how it's been performing thus far. I'm only a handful of drafts in, but I vote for a Pox theme.
Would Grim Discovery be good enough in this archetype? I could see it as being a 2 for 1 quite often.
Thinking of other cards, I don't know if Haakon, Stromgald Scourge would be good enough. He is at least a zombie.
My black section already supports reanimator and aggro, as well as being a colour that can support midrange and controlling decks. For whatever reason I haven't had the woes that other cubers seem to have had with black. Nevertheless this arhetype seems interesting. Is there a pox-lite package that people would recommend, or do you have to go all-in on the archetype?
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
You can include only the top tier cards as a black aggro-tempo package, as I've done, that can come together into the archetype, but isn't necessary to make the cards good. Pox, Smallpox, Nether Void, Geralf's Messenger, Contamination, etc.
EDIT: I'm still not sure where Death Cloud fits into these two classifications. I'm still trying to work that out, but I do know that it benefits from having a ramp focused green section.
Reassembling Skeleton pulled his weight, pretty meh without Smokestacks but with it, just wins. Without Stax he gained me a lot of virtual life and got a few small points of damage in. I liked him a lot more than Bloodghast when Stax was out.
Nether Void was bad. Too many times my opponent had removal to equalize board position, even with Pack Rats one game and Smokestacks the other it wasn't something I wanted to spend 4 mana on.
One of my favorite games from this deck was against a removal heavy RW deck. I played turn 5 Sacromancy then my opponent promptly Searing Speared it. I drew Mutavault a few turns later and animated him every upkeep. Ended up winning at 1 life.
I would run Braids, Skinrender, Abyssal Persecutor, and Bloodline Keeper if I had to choose 4 4-drops in black (and I did), which would be even stronger with this subtheme push.
I would run Braids, Skinrender, Abyssal Persecutor, and Bloodline Keeper if I had to choose 4 4-drops in black (and I did), which would be even stronger with this subtheme push.
Yes. I don't know whether it's objectively right in a vacuum (although my gut says yes), but we don't really cube in a vacuum anymore, and I think those 4 represent a diverse variety of powers/abilities and support various interesting archetypes. I used to be really down on Bone Shredder but now I think I would rather have Bone Shredder over Nekrataal, just because Bone Shredder fits into the 3 slot and I'd rather have the 4 slot for more unique effects.
Boneshredder is more interesting than Nekrataal. Comes back with Sun Titan, great with Mimic Vat and Volrath's Stronghold, and even is a free sacrifice to Braids/Stax.
I added Fleshbag Marauder to my list. Always love adding new ETB to my cube.
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I like this idea better then going all-in, which might give to many slots to mediocre (or narrow, hard to cast) cards. Slots are expensive these days. Supporting Reanimator, black aggro and black control, while leaving room for the powerfull midrange bombs, discard and tutors, means that the room for new archetypes is very limited unless you severly weaken one of the other black sections.
I might talk something like this over with Fredo for our cube. Pox is such a brutal card and it feels so black and has very cool artwork.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Honestly I think the only difference between my list and yours at that point would be Nether Traitor and Carrion Feeder. I think you can do without Nether Traitor if you don't want to go that far, but I do think you should play Carrion Feeder. It's way, way, better than you think (or at least it's better than we thought), and he helps the whole deck a lot.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
In this archetype:
Bone Shredder vs Fleshbag Marauder
Sewer Nemesis vs Marsh Flitter
Liliana's Specter vs Bloodline Keeper
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
edit: Gatekeeper of Malakir seems even better. Also, Rotlung Reanimator could be OK.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I'll probably end up cutting Fume Spitter for Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Shade for Reassembling Skeleton, a 2cc removal spell for Smallpox, Puppateer Clique for Pox, and Profane Command for Death Cloud.
I'm also thinking about those three creature changes above, but I don't know how important Flitter/Keeper/Marauder are to the archetype.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
You wouldn't even consider Nether Traitor? I'm just curious because I'm moving in to this archetype too and that card seems sweet. And I'm also wondering along with you about going nuclear with this update, Kojiro said that's what he did and he'll remove cards as he sees fit, but I might try the slower approach and add until it gets there.
And for those that run marsh flitter, why is it needed in this deck? I guess if you have death cloud?Forgot about braids, smokestack, and the like, since they're already in cubeThe Great Cube Map!
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Draft it here!
I'm definitely considering Nether Traitor. It seems good with the sac effects, but it doesn't do much outside of that.
Marsh Flitter is not only good with Death Cloud, but also Braids and Smokestack.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Shade has been filler for my group. I think it's a fine cut myself.
Stax/Pox strategies are very mana efficient and would rather have creatures you don't have to sink mana into.
Here's a list:
1x Bloodghast
1x Carnophage
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Geralf's Messenger
1x Gravecrawler
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Rakdos Shred-Freak
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Sarcomancy
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Bonesplitter
1x Coalition Relic
1x Death Cloud
1x Entomb
1x Imperial Seal
1x Necropotence
1x Smallpox
1x Smokestack
1x Yawgmoth's Will
//Land
1x Blood Crypt
1x Grand Coliseum
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Mountain
1x Strip Mine
10x Swamp
1x Terramorphic Expanse
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm still trying to put my finger on Death Cloud. Did it see any play?
What does everybody else with experience with it think of the card?
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor
I played Death Cloud twice, one on two and another time on three as a curve-topper when I had disposable recurring threats available and it won both games.
They didn't think much of the card until it started owning it up. Even in an aggressive shell, it played great. I can't wait to see it in a more mid-rangey deck with even more ways to really abuse it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
And it's a Rat Zombie. The two most important black creature types.
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We have been playing Mog War Marshall for a long time and it has been stellar, even without hip Pox themes. It gives three bodies for 2 mana, it shines with Clamp, Recurring Nightmare and has a lot of small synergies with tons of cards.
It is less in your face then some other two drops, but it gives a lot of value. Even without tricks, it has been well worth it. The extra body is nice, and just chump blocking is ok as the initial cost is so low.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
I also have some discussion on the last page of my thread about the Pox decks I drafted, the changes I made in my cube and how it's been performing thus far. I'm only a handful of drafts in, but I vote for a Pox theme.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Thinking of other cards, I don't know if Haakon, Stromgald Scourge would be good enough. He is at least a zombie.
My black section already supports reanimator and aggro, as well as being a colour that can support midrange and controlling decks. For whatever reason I haven't had the woes that other cubers seem to have had with black. Nevertheless this arhetype seems interesting. Is there a pox-lite package that people would recommend, or do you have to go all-in on the archetype?
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Bloodghast
1 Pack Rat
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Knight of Infamy
1 Dark Confidant
1 Snuff Out
1 Ponder
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Repeal
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Into the Roil
1 Remand
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Lingering Souls
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Control Magic
1 Smokestack
1 Nether Void
1 Creeping Tarpit
1 Strip Mine
1 Watery Grave
1 Scrubland
1 Bloodstaine Mire
Reassembling Skeleton pulled his weight, pretty meh without Smokestacks but with it, just wins. Without Stax he gained me a lot of virtual life and got a few small points of damage in. I liked him a lot more than Bloodghast when Stax was out.
Nether Void was bad. Too many times my opponent had removal to equalize board position, even with Pack Rats one game and Smokestacks the other it wasn't something I wanted to spend 4 mana on.
One of my favorite games from this deck was against a removal heavy RW deck. I played turn 5 Sacromancy then my opponent promptly Searing Speared it. I drew Mutavault a few turns later and animated him every upkeep. Ended up winning at 1 life.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Meaning you're not playing Nekrataal?
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
I added Fleshbag Marauder to my list. Always love adding new ETB to my cube.