I see what you mean, but the deck doesn't require that you have braids or smokestack, but only the pox cards. In that deck, the idol could work fairly well.
I see what you mean, but the deck doesn't require that you have braids or smokestack, but only the pox cards. In that deck, the idol could work fairly well.
Even then, every time you use a kill spell or pox/edict away their last creature, you're giving them a 'free' pass of the idol. The card was designed to play well against decks that had an extremely low creature count (like a Weissman-style deck, which isn't how control often manifests anymore).
So I am in love with this strategy. Black is my favorite card and I love denial and prison type effects. I am building a 810 cube and naturally want to run this strategy really bad but I fear that there are not enough recurrable creatures at 810. I was thinking of editing Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul, and Krovikan Horror because they all have to do with graveyard order which is really bad. Any ideas on how to make them cubeable? I was thinking about just removing the graveyard order part and giving them all Nether Shadow's recursion ability but that might be too good. Suggestions?
Besides your undying and persist creatures, Gravecrawler, and Bloodghast, there's Reassembling Skeleton, Nether Traitor and Nether Spirit. You can also push tokens harder as that lines up with Pox pretty well too.
So I am in love with this strategy. Black is my favorite card and I love denial and prison type effects. I am building a 810 cube and naturally want to run this strategy really bad but I fear that there are not enough recurrable creatures at 810. I was thinking of editing Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul, and Krovikan Horror because they all have to do with graveyard order which is really bad. Any ideas on how to make them cubeable? I was thinking about just removing the graveyard order part and giving them all Nether Shadow's recursion ability but that might be too good. Suggestions?
I have a 810 card cube that support this strategy with success.
Wow really? That helps a lot. Thanks for letting me know. Also ya I noticed the synergy and am including tokens in my final draft for 810. Maybe that will be enough. I always viewed pox as mostly mono black though and wouldn't be too keen on splashing white and/or green for that many cards. Especially cards with a lot of White mana symbols on them like many token enablers have. Seems like it would work with tweaking though.
Did I hear someone is playing pox strategy in a huge cube?!? Have you ever seen the card Brood of Cockroaches? Probably not the most exciting card but it's worth a thought.
That 1/1 body with nothing special about it really turns me off. Otherwise I'd run it. I'd rather edit the 3 graveyard order cards like I was talking about then add that card in.
I agree wholeheartedly that as a community we're going to get tired of it. My group may be ready to pull it out pretty soon, honestly, but if I do, I'm just putting the cards to the side, ready to come back some day. The beauty of cube is that it keeps changing.
Is everyone still playing this?
It seems the pox/blackrifice theme hasn't left most peoples cubes...we included this theme in our cube a little while back and when it comes together, it's sweet.
How would each of you rank the cards in this archetype? I don't have as much experience playing it as some of you, but here's my personal take...what's yours?
Tier 2:
Gravecrawler (prob tier 1 if you have enough zombies)
Pox (am I wrong to call it tier 2 based on BBB casting cost?)
Nether traitor
Nether shadow
Fleshbag marauder
Reassembling skeleton
Nether void
Geralf's Messenger (BBB is rough)
Tombstalker
Hypnotic specter
Innocent blood
Synergistic cards within the archtype which are also tier 1 cube cards:
Recurring nightmare
Hymn to tourach/discard
Ophiomancer
Flesh carver
Sinkhole?
Persist/undyers
Man-lands
Shriekmaw/nekretaal/skin renderer
Tutors
Pack rat
The Pox archetype has been rotating in and out since I started my cube nearly two years ago, mainly due to the restrictive costs of the spells. It's definitely one of my favorite archetypes though.
Same here. I most recently cut the LD aspect of it (outside of smokestack and braids) because even when it comes together it doesn't always encourage the most fun gaming experiences. It'll be back, but for my playgroup at least everyone needs a break from getting totally locked out of the game once in a while.
Pox as an archetype is out of my cube at the moment, but because it has become less powerful. We have had quite a few strong token producing cards printed, and I have pushed token strategies. I found that this made it easy for too many decks to shrug off Pox effects because they happen to be running token producers. Has anyone else found this?
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Tokens is a bad matchup for Pox, to be sure. But I think it's okay to have bad matchups for archetype decks if they're still competitive against the rest of the field, which we've found Pox to be.
I don't think the presence of random token cards hurts the validity of Pox as an archetype. Against decks that are loaded with token effects, it can be a struggle. But against a lone effect floating around in the deck, it's still fine. No more than accidentally running into a Lightning Helix ruins aggro's chances of winning a given match.
Tokens must be a bad matchup, but I would think having lots of token effects to everybody available helps Pox as much as hinders it, seeing as you want to be drafting those alongside the Pox effects.
Revisited this strategy in my cube for the first time this week, and I'm incredibly happy with the results.
I cut stax a few years ago after it proved to be too polarizing. Either it worked, and your opponents had absolutely no lands or resources, or it didn't work and you just got run over and lost to any decent permanent. There was very little middle ground, and importantly for us it rarely generated fun game states. I've got legacy for the intricate resource battles. I cube for fun, and this wasn't doing it. One too many opponents gave me the sad puppy dog face and you could tell they were regretting their choice to spend their evening doing this.
That said, black has gotten some great new card advantage tools since I last cut it. All at higher CMCs than we used to play in this strategy. My optimal decks back in the day topped out at 4, with Braids/Smokestack/maybe one more. Everything else was hyper low to the ground. You absolutely wanted Crucible or Loam and it was all about resource denial. This time I brought Smokestack back, along with some other card advantage tools, but Crucible and Loam are currently out of the cube. The stax deck, therefore, is just a black centered card advantage deck.
Looking at it after the draft, I was very disappointed. I felt it hadn't come together at all and I was going to get crushed. Instead, I went 9-2 in games, 4-1 in matches. Both of my game losses were to a ramp deck that played turn 2 Monolith into turn 3 Titan. Ramp is definitely going to be this strategy's worst matchup anyway, so I'm not too surprised about that. Beyond that, though, the deck was beautiful. I just out card advantaged my opponents. I regularly bumped Smokestack up to 2 or 3 counters, which wasn't the case nearly as often with the old setup. Instead of focusing on recurring things (though I did have bloodghast), I just drew more cards and dealt with losing permanents. I also got very lucky that I didn't have to face too many giant creatures, as this deck doesn't have nearly enough creature removal spells. Icy Manipulator did beat a Griselbrand though, that was cool.
I think this deck could be really sweet with more green in it (Meren of Clan Nel Toth?) or honestly with any of the other colors as there are fun tools to blend with it. Fundamentally, though, I'm just happy it was able to be a grindy resource control deck that was always happy to draw Braids or Smokestack. It was definitely a different way to try and build it, but I had fun, the deck did well, and my opponents weren't miserable.
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Even then, every time you use a kill spell or pox/edict away their last creature, you're giving them a 'free' pass of the idol. The card was designed to play well against decks that had an extremely low creature count (like a Weissman-style deck, which isn't how control often manifests anymore).
I have a 810 card cube that support this strategy with success.
http://cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/37;jsessionid=1662E3865D461A2A3AF9B2463820B378
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Wow really? That helps a lot. Thanks for letting me know. Also ya I noticed the synergy and am including tokens in my final draft for 810. Maybe that will be enough. I always viewed pox as mostly mono black though and wouldn't be too keen on splashing white and/or green for that many cards. Especially cards with a lot of White mana symbols on them like many token enablers have. Seems like it would work with tweaking though.
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Is everyone still playing this?
It seems the pox/blackrifice theme hasn't left most peoples cubes...we included this theme in our cube a little while back and when it comes together, it's sweet.
How would each of you rank the cards in this archetype? I don't have as much experience playing it as some of you, but here's my personal take...what's yours?
Tier 1:
Smoke stack (duh)
Braids (duh)
Bloodghast
Bloodsoaked champion
Smallpox
Crucible of worlds
Bitterblossom
Abyssal persecutor
Tier 2:
Gravecrawler (prob tier 1 if you have enough zombies)
Pox (am I wrong to call it tier 2 based on BBB casting cost?)
Nether traitor
Nether shadow
Fleshbag marauder
Reassembling skeleton
Nether void
Geralf's Messenger (BBB is rough)
Tombstalker
Hypnotic specter
Innocent blood
Synergistic cards within the archtype which are also tier 1 cube cards:
Recurring nightmare
Hymn to tourach/discard
Ophiomancer
Flesh carver
Sinkhole?
Persist/undyers
Man-lands
Shriekmaw/nekretaal/skin renderer
Tutors
Pack rat
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Same here. I most recently cut the LD aspect of it (outside of smokestack and braids) because even when it comes together it doesn't always encourage the most fun gaming experiences. It'll be back, but for my playgroup at least everyone needs a break from getting totally locked out of the game once in a while.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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1 Kessig Prowler
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Scythe Leopard
1 Wolfbitten Captive
1 Bloodghast
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Pain Seer
1 Extricator of Sin
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Ophiomancer
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Bonesplitter
1 Skullclamp
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Lingering Souls
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Nether Void
1 Smokestack
1 Mind Twist
Lands :
1 Mox Jet
1 Ancient Tombs
1 City of Traitors
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Plains
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I cut stax a few years ago after it proved to be too polarizing. Either it worked, and your opponents had absolutely no lands or resources, or it didn't work and you just got run over and lost to any decent permanent. There was very little middle ground, and importantly for us it rarely generated fun game states. I've got legacy for the intricate resource battles. I cube for fun, and this wasn't doing it. One too many opponents gave me the sad puppy dog face and you could tell they were regretting their choice to spend their evening doing this.
That said, black has gotten some great new card advantage tools since I last cut it. All at higher CMCs than we used to play in this strategy. My optimal decks back in the day topped out at 4, with Braids/Smokestack/maybe one more. Everything else was hyper low to the ground. You absolutely wanted Crucible or Loam and it was all about resource denial. This time I brought Smokestack back, along with some other card advantage tools, but Crucible and Loam are currently out of the cube. The stax deck, therefore, is just a black centered card advantage deck.
Last night I built this
1 Snuff Out
1 Skullclamp
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bonesplitter
1 Bitterblossm
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Bloodghast
1 Blood Artist
1 Pack Rat
1 Silumgar Assassin
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Magus of the Will
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Smokestack
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Wretched Confluence
1 Mind Twist
1 Ash Barrens
1 Aether Hub
1 Mutavault
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bayou
2 Forest
5 Swamp
Looking at it after the draft, I was very disappointed. I felt it hadn't come together at all and I was going to get crushed. Instead, I went 9-2 in games, 4-1 in matches. Both of my game losses were to a ramp deck that played turn 2 Monolith into turn 3 Titan. Ramp is definitely going to be this strategy's worst matchup anyway, so I'm not too surprised about that. Beyond that, though, the deck was beautiful. I just out card advantaged my opponents. I regularly bumped Smokestack up to 2 or 3 counters, which wasn't the case nearly as often with the old setup. Instead of focusing on recurring things (though I did have bloodghast), I just drew more cards and dealt with losing permanents. I also got very lucky that I didn't have to face too many giant creatures, as this deck doesn't have nearly enough creature removal spells. Icy Manipulator did beat a Griselbrand though, that was cool.
I think this deck could be really sweet with more green in it (Meren of Clan Nel Toth?) or honestly with any of the other colors as there are fun tools to blend with it. Fundamentally, though, I'm just happy it was able to be a grindy resource control deck that was always happy to draw Braids or Smokestack. It was definitely a different way to try and build it, but I had fun, the deck did well, and my opponents weren't miserable.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)