I think reanimator should be expanded to a "cheat a fatty into play" archetype, so we could be thinking somewhere along cards like Show and Tell, Natural Order, Sneak Attack all help.
Ha! I just thought about this very same thing yesterday and made an [MCD] thread today.
Additional black enablers is targeted removal on yourself. Thoughtsieze works in a pinch. Others like Raven's Crime, Distress, and Blackmail also work while being at least reasonable on own merits.
I hate to revive this thread, but I am trying to avoid posting a new topic. I am pretty curious as to what people think about tri-color fatties for reanimator in a 360 cube.
I try to stay away from 3 color cards for the most part, 360 is pretty tight for them, but for the sake of reanimator I thought I would see what others thought.
In my cube I play Sphinx of the Steel Wind as the only 3 color creature in the entire cube. He is counted as a colorless creature.
I play him because he's a great reanimator target against most decks, he's one of the best tinker targets, and I've cast him in multiple control decks. I like him a lot better than something like Inkwell Leviathan as an artifact fatty, which is his main competition.
I don't think he's so vital you have to run him at 360. I'm running him at 450 and I'm quite happy with him though.
Sphinx is good for smaller Cubes because of the cross-support of both Tinker and Reanimator. The other tri-color card that has been the most fun is Maelstrom Wanderer, but he is only really good in ramp decks in which you cast him.
In my cube I play Sphinx of the Steel Wind as the only 3 color creature in the entire cube. He is counted as a colorless creature.
I play him because he's a great reanimator target against most decks, he's one of the best tinker targets, and I've cast him in multiple control decks. I like him a lot better than something like Inkwell Leviathan as an artifact fatty, which is his main competition.
I don't think he's so vital you have to run him at 360. I'm running him at 450 and I'm quite happy with him though.
Agreed 100%. I run Sphinx as an additional Tinker/Reanimation target, and I just have it classified as a Misc. card along with Wild Nacatl. I'd run it to increase the concentration of targets in anything 450 or bigger.
Outside of Sphinx, Inkwell Leviathan, Sundering Titan, and Myr Battlesphere (of which I currently run the latter 3), are there any other big artifact tinker/reanimator targets to play? My group has been asking me to add a couple more good targets - are there really any more big artifact fatties?
Outside of Sphinx, Inkwell Leviathan, Sundering Titan, and Myr Battlesphere (of which I currently run the latter 3), are there any other big artifact tinker/reanimator targets to play? My group has been asking me to add a couple more good targets - are there really any more big artifact fatties?
Wurmcoil Engine is worth mentioning as it's good anyway, as well as Nevinyrral's Disk as a situational Tinker target, but I think you pretty much got the really big ones.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Wurmcoil is boss, and we've been fond of using it as a utility card to get an Icy, a Disk or another "bullet" artifact as needed. Gilded Lotus isn't bad either.
What 3 color targets would you say fit the top 5? Or must include targets purely for Reanimator?
I currently have Sphinx and Mimeoplasm, and was going to grab Empyri Archangel, but are there others? My cube is 470 right now, I might expand.
I would never include targets that are purely for reanimator (possible exception: Elesh Norn, but she sees play in WG ramp). I'd want all of my reanimator targets to be good for other decks as well. Sphinx, for example, is good for Tinker decks. Empyrial Archangel is a great Natural Order target. For other tricolor options, I'd say your next best bet is Broodmate Dragon. It's good for reanimator, Jund midrange, RecSur, and Natural Order. For Grixis, I guess you could run Thraximundar but if I was going to run tricolor cards, the Grixis option I'd turn to is Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. He's too cool to not run.
I'm not sold on The Mimeoplasm. It can be hard to get two other good cards into the yard by turn ~3 or so when you want your reanimator deck to pop.
I actually just ended up cutting Sphinx of the Steel Wind along with Griselbrand because they were creatures that were only ever cheated into play, and very rarely ramped into. Sure, I cast Griselbrand several times, but I never included him in a deck that couldn't cheat him into play, and same with Sphinx.
I will say this: We just ran Sphinx of the Steel Wind in the colorless section. 80% or more of the decks that played him couldn't have cared less what colors were in his mana cost, and since there weren't enough other good tricolor cards, I didn't want to have a bunch of crappy cards for completion's sake. Usually I'm very strict about color requirements, but in this case, I felt he was essentially a colorless card.
It's certainly not for everyone, I'm just throwing out an idea that might work for you.
I would never include targets that are purely for reanimator (possible exception: Elesh Norn, but she sees play in WG ramp). I'd want all of my reanimator targets to be good for other decks as well. Sphinx, for example, is good for Tinker decks. Empyrial Archangel is a great Natural Order target. For other tricolor options, I'd say your next best bet is Broodmate Dragon. It's good for reanimator, Jund midrange, RecSur, and Natural Order. For Grixis, I guess you could run Thraximundar but if I was going to run tricolor cards, the Grixis option I'd turn to is Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. He's too cool to not run.
I'm not sold on The Mimeoplasm. It can be hard to get two other good cards into the yard by turn ~3 or so when you want your reanimator deck to pop.
Cheers,
rant
Well, there's combo reanimator and grindy midrange advantage reanimator. I've been nerfing the former and pushing the latter, recently, trying out cards like Diabolic Servitude and Living Death alongside the faster reanimation spells (and no Entomb, but Buried Alive...) I've swapped in The Mimeoplasm, and it definitely fits better in this style of reanimator. That said, he's never once been cast in quite a number of games. He's only made maindeck a few times, and it just never worked. I see the potential, and it's precisely the kind of ridiculously fun card I want in my cube. But it hasn't been at all effective so far, sadly.
I see what you are saying Tom, but I don't think of those grindy decks as real reanimator decks. They are more like midrange decks with some reanimation spells. Living Death is a special case because it is often a build-around-me card resulting in something that is unique, the Livingdeath.dec.
Mimeoplasm is the best BUG card we have available. I wouldn't consider it a support card for reanimator purposes though. It's actually not difficult to get very good value for your five mana with a few targets in either graveyard. If I ran a wedge or shard set, I wouldn't be ashamed to include him.
Living Death has some synergies you can 'build around' (for want of a more realistic term) but again it's not a real reanimator card per se.
Dedicated Creatures:
Sphinx (tri)
Mimeoplasm (tri)
Broodmate Dragon (tri)
**I run those 3 as part of my 10-shard section. They are good on their own and work well when paired with the likes of recurring nightmare, animate dead, exhume, dance of the dead, etc
@rantipole
What he has in his above 2 responses is spot on. There are 2 factions of reanimator and there are cards that work beyond the archetype. Elesh Norn being a nice example.
@Emp Archangel
May be a card I need to look into. I currently have Pancakes in the bant slot. If I add NO, I'll have to give Emp Archangel a try then
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
The only three color include is steel wind. Empyrial Archangel doesn't do enough, Natural Order has plenty of better targets.
Back when I ran both and pushed reanimator hard I liked the angel a lot more than the sphinx. Archangel is such a pain to deal with and getting it out early is nearly impossible to come back from. Sphinx let me down a lot more than the angel did.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
@rantipole
What he has in his above 2 responses is spot on. There are 2 factions of reanimator and there are cards that work beyond the archetype. Elesh Norn being a nice example.
I just don't call the grindy style a true reanimator deck. When I use "reanimator" to refer to an archetype, I'm referring to decks that try to load the graveyard and pump out a fatty around turn 2 or 3.
This is in response to the OP, I haven't read anything else on this thread, nor do I plan to. I'm gonna shoot it to you straight. You can't just half-ass reanimator in your cube and expect it to work. Go big or go home. Either provide the support or don't, but personally I think it's important for cubes to support it. Here are the cards that are absolutely critical for the strategy to succeed.
Reanimation Spells
Animate Dead
Dance of the Dead
Exhume
Necromancy
Reanimate
Unburial Rites
Life//Death (450+)
Enablers
Entomb
Buried Alive
Outlets
Rotting Rats
Targets
Griselbrand
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Myr Battlesphere
Obviously you need the reanimation spells for this strategy to work and I've listed the best ones above. You need Unburial Rites since it allows you to Entomb for a reanimation spell. Buried Alive is narrow but quite welcome as an Entomb mimic, albeit a significantly weaker one. Rotting Rats serves as a discard outlet that also disrupts your opponent, blocks, and can be Entombed for in case you draw your target. By playing Unburial Rites and Rotting Rats you take Entomb from broken to next level. It opens up the possibility of Entombing for your targets, your reanimation spell, and your outlet. It allows Entomb to serve any and every purpose that your deck needs to function smoothly. Lastly I consider Griselbrand, Elesh Norn, and Battlesphere to be the three pillars of the reanimation deck. You really don't need more than three targets in any given deck and the more of the above targets that you have in your deck the better.
I think reanimator works best in a control shell so I wouldn't recommend trying to build a combo reanimator deck, in other words, a deck that's sole purpose is to reanimate as quickly as possible. I also wouldn't recommend pairing your reanimating strategy with green. It's fine to play a reanimation spell or two in your green deck but only as an afterthought, and I still don't even think it's that great. I would rather play a control deck that reanimates rather than a midrange deck that doesn't quite know what it's trying to do. Oh, and since the entire strategy hinges on Entomb you need it above all else. Reanimator decks without Entomb are mostly trash.
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Ha! I just thought about this very same thing yesterday and made an [MCD] thread today.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
The only one I would consider playable is the Trespasser as a sort of poor man's Oona's Prowler.
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Ya, but I'd play Undead Gladiator over it too.
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I try to stay away from 3 color cards for the most part, 360 is pretty tight for them, but for the sake of reanimator I thought I would see what others thought.
I play him because he's a great reanimator target against most decks, he's one of the best tinker targets, and I've cast him in multiple control decks. I like him a lot better than something like Inkwell Leviathan as an artifact fatty, which is his main competition.
I don't think he's so vital you have to run him at 360. I'm running him at 450 and I'm quite happy with him though.
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Agreed 100%. I run Sphinx as an additional Tinker/Reanimation target, and I just have it classified as a Misc. card along with Wild Nacatl. I'd run it to increase the concentration of targets in anything 450 or bigger.
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Wurmcoil Engine is worth mentioning as it's good anyway, as well as Nevinyrral's Disk as a situational Tinker target, but I think you pretty much got the really big ones.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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360 can pass on Sphinx because the list is small enough not to need it in addition to the other Tinker/Reanimation targets.
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I currently have Sphinx and Mimeoplasm, and was going to grab Empyri Archangel, but are there others? My cube is 470 right now, I might expand.
I would never include targets that are purely for reanimator (possible exception: Elesh Norn, but she sees play in WG ramp). I'd want all of my reanimator targets to be good for other decks as well. Sphinx, for example, is good for Tinker decks. Empyrial Archangel is a great Natural Order target. For other tricolor options, I'd say your next best bet is Broodmate Dragon. It's good for reanimator, Jund midrange, RecSur, and Natural Order. For Grixis, I guess you could run Thraximundar but if I was going to run tricolor cards, the Grixis option I'd turn to is Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. He's too cool to not run.
I'm not sold on The Mimeoplasm. It can be hard to get two other good cards into the yard by turn ~3 or so when you want your reanimator deck to pop.
Cheers,
rant
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I will say this: We just ran Sphinx of the Steel Wind in the colorless section. 80% or more of the decks that played him couldn't have cared less what colors were in his mana cost, and since there weren't enough other good tricolor cards, I didn't want to have a bunch of crappy cards for completion's sake. Usually I'm very strict about color requirements, but in this case, I felt he was essentially a colorless card.
It's certainly not for everyone, I'm just throwing out an idea that might work for you.
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Well, there's combo reanimator and grindy midrange advantage reanimator. I've been nerfing the former and pushing the latter, recently, trying out cards like Diabolic Servitude and Living Death alongside the faster reanimation spells (and no Entomb, but Buried Alive...) I've swapped in The Mimeoplasm, and it definitely fits better in this style of reanimator. That said, he's never once been cast in quite a number of games. He's only made maindeck a few times, and it just never worked. I see the potential, and it's precisely the kind of ridiculously fun card I want in my cube. But it hasn't been at all effective so far, sadly.
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Cheers,
rant
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Living Death has some synergies you can 'build around' (for want of a more realistic term) but again it's not a real reanimator card per se.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Sphinx (tri)
Mimeoplasm (tri)
Broodmate Dragon (tri)
**I run those 3 as part of my 10-shard section. They are good on their own and work well when paired with the likes of recurring nightmare, animate dead, exhume, dance of the dead, etc
You can also open up to N. Graverobber, Coffin Queen, Body Double, etc to further aid reanimator. Last, there are additional spells like sneak attack, show and tell, breath of life, and unburial rights.
@rantipole
What he has in his above 2 responses is spot on. There are 2 factions of reanimator and there are cards that work beyond the archetype. Elesh Norn being a nice example.
@Emp Archangel
May be a card I need to look into. I currently have Pancakes in the bant slot. If I add NO, I'll have to give Emp Archangel a try then
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Back when I ran both and pushed reanimator hard I liked the angel a lot more than the sphinx. Archangel is such a pain to deal with and getting it out early is nearly impossible to come back from. Sphinx let me down a lot more than the angel did.
I just don't call the grindy style a true reanimator deck. When I use "reanimator" to refer to an archetype, I'm referring to decks that try to load the graveyard and pump out a fatty around turn 2 or 3.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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Reanimation Spells
Animate Dead
Dance of the Dead
Exhume
Necromancy
Reanimate
Unburial Rites
Life//Death (450+)
Enablers
Entomb
Buried Alive
Outlets
Rotting Rats
Targets
Griselbrand
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Myr Battlesphere
Obviously you need the reanimation spells for this strategy to work and I've listed the best ones above. You need Unburial Rites since it allows you to Entomb for a reanimation spell. Buried Alive is narrow but quite welcome as an Entomb mimic, albeit a significantly weaker one. Rotting Rats serves as a discard outlet that also disrupts your opponent, blocks, and can be Entombed for in case you draw your target. By playing Unburial Rites and Rotting Rats you take Entomb from broken to next level. It opens up the possibility of Entombing for your targets, your reanimation spell, and your outlet. It allows Entomb to serve any and every purpose that your deck needs to function smoothly. Lastly I consider Griselbrand, Elesh Norn, and Battlesphere to be the three pillars of the reanimation deck. You really don't need more than three targets in any given deck and the more of the above targets that you have in your deck the better.
I think reanimator works best in a control shell so I wouldn't recommend trying to build a combo reanimator deck, in other words, a deck that's sole purpose is to reanimate as quickly as possible. I also wouldn't recommend pairing your reanimating strategy with green. It's fine to play a reanimation spell or two in your green deck but only as an afterthought, and I still don't even think it's that great. I would rather play a control deck that reanimates rather than a midrange deck that doesn't quite know what it's trying to do. Oh, and since the entire strategy hinges on Entomb you need it above all else. Reanimator decks without Entomb are mostly trash.