The design of this card intrigued me, as picking this card in Cube could also affect future creatures picked. How strong is a Fervor on a stick that forces you to attack, backed up by removal? I could see this guy be almost a centerpiece for a Boros or mono-red burn deck
How strong is it comparative to Lightning Mauler? Is it Cubeable? Or chaff?
Most all of the red 4 drops have haste already and this guy's drawback will end up hurting you. He's very good in Gruul but so is Lightning Mauler, I won't be running him.
You can still "slowroll" your creatures by playing them postcombat if you need to attack with creature A and B at once, but having to attack is still such a huuuuge drawback. Not sure how big exactly it is once your entire team has it.
For peasant cube, the red three-drop is so solid that I don't need to consider this. I'd rather have Splatter Thug and his solid friends.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I think Lightning Mauler makes this guy look like butt. He may be okay, but red's 3-drops are better than this, and the red 4 and 5 drops have haste anyways. It would make for a good aggro card in a non-red color perhaps.
I think this is actually terrible - he will suicide just as often as Tattermaunge Maniac, which is a much better body and still pretty bad for the cube. Worse still, he can make more than just himself suicide - I don't think this is very much better than a 2/2 haste for 2r, if at all.
i don't really understand the "in any other color" argument. can someone explain why the most aggressive color that has the most removal is the worst place for it? i don't see how the drawback is easier to deal with in any other color.
edit: i just went through my cube and red has 3x the number of removal spells as white and almost twice as many as blue and black (if you count edicts and bounce). green has zero, obviously. since red's theme is pushed toward aggro more than any of the other colors that makes it the best possible place for this card. it's not good in red, and i'm not going to run it. but if it were another color, i'd be even less inclined to do so.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i don't really understand the "in any other color" argument. can someone explain why the most aggressive color that has the most removal is the worst place for it? i don't see how the drawback is easier to deal with in any other color.
People say that Goblin Scrapper would be better in another color because most red creatures that you're going to drop after this guy already have haste. Think about some of the good red 4- and 5-drops - Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hellrider, Avalanche Riders, Thundermaw Hellkite, Zealous Conscripts, and with a splash, Bloodbraid Elf, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Most of them already have haste, so playing this guy in a red deck probably isn't going to do that much for creatures higher up on your curve, and the drawback is really awful. In a different color, however, there are fewer creatures with haste and so giving bigger dudes haste (like, say, Hero of Bladehold, or maybe the titans) could be enough to offset the weakness. I'm not really sure that it would in any case, but haste for all of your dudes in a color that doesn't normally get haste is a big deal.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
People say that Goblin Scrapper would be better in another color because most red creatures that you're going to drop after this guy already have haste. Think about some of the good red 4- and 5-drops - Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hellrider, Avalanche Riders, Thundermaw Hellkite, Zealous Conscripts, and with a splash, Bloodbraid Elf, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Most of them already have haste, so playing this guy in a red deck probably isn't going to do that much for creatures higher up on your curve, and the drawback is really awful. In a different color, however, there are fewer creatures with haste and so giving bigger dudes haste (like, say, Hero of Bladehold, or maybe the titans) could be enough to offset the weakness. I'm not really sure that it would in any case, but haste for all of your dudes in a color that doesn't normally get haste is a big deal.
i see that point, but i feel like the total picture shows this guy is bad in any color. there's pluses and minuses to the guy in red, but i think there are more minuses elsewhere.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
How about in Boros builds then? I agree that the Cubeable red 4-5 drops already have haste, but I can see this pushing cards like Hero of Bladehold, Calciderm, Cloudgoat Ranger etc over the edge
People say that Goblin Scrapper would be better in another color because most red creatures that you're going to drop after this guy already have haste. Think about some of the good red 4- and 5-drops - Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hellrider, Avalanche Riders, Thundermaw Hellkite, Zealous Conscripts, and with a splash, Bloodbraid Elf, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Most of them already have haste, so playing this guy in a red deck probably isn't going to do that much for creatures higher up on your curve, and the drawback is really awful. In a different color, however, there are fewer creatures with haste and so giving bigger dudes haste (like, say, Hero of Bladehold, or maybe the titans) could be enough to offset the weakness. I'm not really sure that it would in any case, but haste for all of your dudes in a color that doesn't normally get haste is a big deal.
This is exactly right. Plus the quality of the creatures that don't have haste are better in other colors. And those creatures might have better bodies and therefore won't be suiciding themselves as often as the red ones would be forced to. And it would be an off-color effect for another color, making the effect more surprising and potentially more powerful.
Quote from qq »
i feel like the total picture shows this guy is bad in any color.
It would be better if it weren't red for the reasons listed above, but it would still miss the cut.
How about in Boros builds then? I agree that the Cubeable red 4-5 drops already have haste, but I can see this pushing cards like Hero of Bladehold, Calciderm, Cloudgoat Ranger etc over the edge
It can make them better, sure, but I don't think it's really worth a spot in the cube unless you desperately need another Lightning Mauler/Crimson Mage in cube. Both of those cards (in my opinion) are better at enabling haste, and his downside is really just atrocious.
i see that point, but i feel like the total picture shows this guy is bad in any color. there's pluses and minuses to the guy in red, but i think there are more minuses elsewhere.
The more I think about it, the more I think that he'd be awful in any color, frankly. But he really just has no upsides with most creatures you'd want to cast in red with a cmc higher than 3. Inferno Titan is basically the only one I can think of that might justify the whole having to attack every turn part.
It shall be done! That's the funniest thing I've read on the forums in a long time. It's true, too. I posted something similar in the rumblebutt or whatever guy's SCD.
I think Lightning Mauler makes this guy look like butt. He may be okay, but red's 3-drops are better than this, and the red 4 and 5 drops have haste anyways. It would make for a good aggro card in a non-red color perhaps.
I just have one question. Is this your new catchphrase? This is butt, it looks like butt. Just wondering if its chance or its your new catchphrase.
We've been giving this guy a try as a sort of second pseudo fires of yavimaya, and he's been showing a lot of promise (I restrict it to "promise" due to a still small sample size) so i figured it was about time to throw him out as an option again.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Almost every aggro creature you play past turn 3 already comes with haste. I would be much more worried about potentially suiciding my team into bigger creatures.
Fires isn't exactly a normal aggro archetype though. It's more an aggressive midrange that lives on T3 hasted 5-power 4-drops. Hellraiser slots nicely into the T2 play for the archetype just as fires did/does. If all it does is beat for two and haste out blastoderm or Phantom Centaur before being blocked, it's already done its job.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Yes, but forcing all of your creatures to attack is a pretty serious drawback. All of your mana dorks and utility creatures get significantly worse. Not to mention that if the haste is important to your end-game plans, this guy is pretty fragile himself and has to attack. I'd rather play Fervor.
The design of this card intrigued me, as picking this card in Cube could also affect future creatures picked. How strong is a Fervor on a stick that forces you to attack, backed up by removal? I could see this guy be almost a centerpiece for a Boros or mono-red burn deck
How strong is it comparative to Lightning Mauler? Is it Cubeable? Or chaff?
For peasant cube, the red three-drop is so solid that I don't need to consider this. I'd rather have Splatter Thug and his solid friends.
Still like the design of the card.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Draft it on Cubetutor!
And I really would like some aggressive 3 drops for red, but they need to have a 3 power for me to get excited.
edit: i just went through my cube and red has 3x the number of removal spells as white and almost twice as many as blue and black (if you count edicts and bounce). green has zero, obviously. since red's theme is pushed toward aggro more than any of the other colors that makes it the best possible place for this card. it's not good in red, and i'm not going to run it. but if it were another color, i'd be even less inclined to do so.
People say that Goblin Scrapper would be better in another color because most red creatures that you're going to drop after this guy already have haste. Think about some of the good red 4- and 5-drops - Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hellrider, Avalanche Riders, Thundermaw Hellkite, Zealous Conscripts, and with a splash, Bloodbraid Elf, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Most of them already have haste, so playing this guy in a red deck probably isn't going to do that much for creatures higher up on your curve, and the drawback is really awful. In a different color, however, there are fewer creatures with haste and so giving bigger dudes haste (like, say, Hero of Bladehold, or maybe the titans) could be enough to offset the weakness. I'm not really sure that it would in any case, but haste for all of your dudes in a color that doesn't normally get haste is a big deal.
Does the flavour text translate as "The Gatecrash cards were so bad for cube, all the soldiers didn't care if they lived"?
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
i see that point, but i feel like the total picture shows this guy is bad in any color. there's pluses and minuses to the guy in red, but i think there are more minuses elsewhere.
This is exactly right. Plus the quality of the creatures that don't have haste are better in other colors. And those creatures might have better bodies and therefore won't be suiciding themselves as often as the red ones would be forced to. And it would be an off-color effect for another color, making the effect more surprising and potentially more powerful.
It would be better if it weren't red for the reasons listed above, but it would still miss the cut.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It can make them better, sure, but I don't think it's really worth a spot in the cube unless you desperately need another Lightning Mauler/Crimson Mage in cube. Both of those cards (in my opinion) are better at enabling haste, and his downside is really just atrocious.
Come to think of it, Reckless Charge works too, though it's not a creature (and doesn't help Calciderm like Lightning Mauler can).
The more I think about it, the more I think that he'd be awful in any color, frankly. But he really just has no upsides with most creatures you'd want to cast in red with a cmc higher than 3. Inferno Titan is basically the only one I can think of that might justify the whole having to attack every turn part.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
An eye-opener if there ever was one! Somebody sig this ^^
Cube list thread
Cubetutor
I just have one question. Is this your new catchphrase? This is butt, it looks like butt. Just wondering if its chance or its your new catchphrase.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
No, it's not a new catchphrase, I've just used it twice in the last month.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
We've been giving this guy a try as a sort of second pseudo fires of yavimaya, and he's been showing a lot of promise (I restrict it to "promise" due to a still small sample size) so i figured it was about time to throw him out as an option again.
Anyone ever considered giving this guy a shot?
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Fires isn't exactly a normal aggro archetype though. It's more an aggressive midrange that lives on T3 hasted 5-power 4-drops. Hellraiser slots nicely into the T2 play for the archetype just as fires did/does. If all it does is beat for two and haste out blastoderm or Phantom Centaur before being blocked, it's already done its job.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!