sure, it survives a wrath, but your creatures don't. so you need to replay creatures afterward anyway if you want to get any value out of it. it does nothing without a creature and has a completely marginal effect with only one creature out. you know what's much better to play right before a wrath? a noncreature source of damage, an equipment that makes a single post-wrath threat much scarier than an anthem does, or even better, some kind of disruption that prevents the wrath from ever hitting the table.
can you play the anthem in aggro? sure, and you'll likely get some value out of it. but i'd rather play a ton of more aggro-centric cards instead because i think it will make my deck stronger. i say this with experience, and i used to be a pretty big fan of the card. in some circumstances it's very strong, but those circumstances ultimately came up too infrequently to justify keeping the card.
So I hear you say. I just don't agree. My experience is that the value is there for aggro decks. The pump bonus hits all your creatures, making blocking worse for your opponent and pushing extra damage through. It makes their dividable damage, sweepers, Earthquakes and everything else less effective against your entire board instead of just bumping one creature. I don't disagree that there are cases where other cards are better in your aggro deck. But I think there are cases where the Anthem is better than those cards would be. It's faster than equipment, and more detrimental in combat. You can point out how a Duress is better against a Wrath, and how a Sword is better when you only have one threat, and how a burn spell is better when you need removal, and how a threat is better when you have no other creatures ...but none of those cards are valuable in all situations either. There's no one option out there that will give you better value in all of those situations. You're comparing 4 different cards to 1 card, showing how each one of them is better at doing their one job than Anthem is. It's like saying Arc Trail is bad because Bolt does 3 damage for less mana, and Earthquake hits more creatures for more damage. Just because other options exist that are better in some cases doesn't mean that that card is bad.
Not to mention that token strategies exist. The Token/Anthem deck is an entire archetype. Supporting it is important. So not only is it a playable aggro card, but it's a cornerstone card for an entire deck.
You can argue all day that a Sword is better, but that doesn't change the fact that the Anthem is valuable in a ton of situations, and is a totally different type of card. It's harder to remove, harder to disrupt and helps support an entire archetype, in addition to being a good support card for your aggro horde deck.
I'm in the opposite camp from you. I used to think the card was bad. But it's proved itself over and over in play and now I can't see myself removing it from a ~540 cube.
In my cube at least, a LOT of cards make multiple creatures or tokens, more than you'd think at first glance. And it's really not as bad in straight aggro as some people are saying. With X creatures out its X hasty damage against a goldfish, and often much more if the anthem gets your guys past a blocker. It can't be wrathed or easily removed. Most modular card ever? No, but neither are a lot of sweet cards. I can't imagine cutting it.
Honestly, I have never had an issue with this card and just one dude on the field. Who doesn't love a 3/2 for W or a 2/2 first strike with landfall to add another +2/+2 for 1R? Everyone gets a free Leonin Scimitar just for showing up to fight!
Honestly, I have never had an issue with this card and just one dude on the field. Who doesn't love a 3/2 for W or a 2/2 first strike with landfall to add another +2/+2 for 1R? Everyone gets a free Leonin Scimitar just for showing up to fight!
If this were true, it would be awesome, but you are getting a 3/2 for two cards and 1WWW. Making guys bigger is nice, but you really need three creatures for this to start to be worth the card and mana.
With X creatures out its X hasty damage against a goldfish, and often much more if the anthem gets your guys past a blocker. It can't be wrathed or easily removed.
If you're going to equate it to haste damage it seems pretty bad at x=2. And being removal resistant isn't very useful when it does nothing without multiple other cards that aren't removal resistant. I agree, however, that it can push through extra damage by making blocks unfavorable. That's a good point.
Honestly, I have never had an issue with this card and just one dude on the field. Who doesn't love a 3/2 for W or a 2/2 first strike with landfall to add another +2/+2 for 1R? Everyone gets a free Leonin Scimitar just for showing up to fight!
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
If you're going to equate it to haste damage it seems pretty bad at x=2.
2 hasty damage is under the curve for cube, but it also scales with every additional creature you play.
And being removal resistant isn't very useful when it does nothing without multiple other cards that aren't removal resistant.
It's extremely useful if you play it correctly. It means getting in more damage and getting through blockers without extending further into a sweeper. If I go Savannah Lions, Soltari Priest, Glorious Anthem, that's going to be more than enough to force a sweeper if the opponent has one. They sweep, and you follow up with Hero of Bladehold, Elspeth Tirel, or even just Blade Splicer with Anthem still on the board? They are now in trouble.
People who don't like Anthem keep talking about the times where it hasn't been great (and it's definitely not at its best without cards that make multiple creatures, but it's still reasonable), but none of them mention the massive upside.
Again, SO many creatures, planeswalkers, and even enchantments in cube spit out multiple dudes, either immediately or over time. The importance of anthem effects in decks with token producers cannot be overstated. It means not having to extend into sweepers or counterspells, it means getting past blockers you couldn't before, and against aggressive decks it means profitable, sustainable blocks and the speed to finish the game before they draw enough reach to dome you out. Anthem also has its nut draws - ever curve Bitterblossom into Glorious Anthem?
Anthem does overlap with equipment in some ways (resilience to sweepers, getting past blockers), but they are very different in others. Anthem is harder to remove, better against spot removal in a lot of cases, scales with every additional creature you add to the board, and requires only a one-time investment. Equipment obviously has its advantages too, but you can't claim the existence of Swords obsoletes Anthem.
2 hasty damage is under the curve for cube, but it also scales with every additional creature you play.
Right, so if you regularly have three or more creatures out, it's good. That's just not the norm in my experience.
Again, SO many creatures, planeswalkers, and even enchantments in cube spit out multiple dudes, either immediately or over time. The importance of anthem effects in decks with token producers cannot be overstated. It means not having to extend into sweepers or counterspells, it means getting past blockers you couldn't before, and against aggressive decks it means profitable, sustainable blocks and the speed to finish the game before they draw enough reach to dome you out. Anthem also has its nut draws - ever curve Bitterblossom into Glorious Anthem?
Yes, it's good with tokens. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. I certainly wasnt.
Equipment obviously has its advantages too, but you can't claim the existence of Swords obsoletes Anthem.
I'm not claiming that. My point was that I would rather maindeck any other kind of reach (burn, equipment, rancor, etc) or disruption (LD, discard, counters, bounce, etc) in a hard aggro deck unless it had a high percentage of token makers.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
You also play a 360 card cube, qq. And as I stated before, I wouldn't cube it at that size either. It's a card for mid-sized cubes with both aggro and token support.
Sorta had to accept it wasn't good. It only ever saw strong play in any cube I've seen it in when I built a soldier theme into it and had a bunch of special cards like white mog war marshal. Still it was an ugly table that we kept in just to have cards saved for the WW player and for nostalgia.
It presents a really neat opportunity for card design. Making a cube worthy anthem. Something that depends a lot on what you want to support in your cube. The pieces to make an anthem good are usually there, planeswalkers, cloudgoats, supported WW, opposition, decree of justice etc, but the actual anthems we have are just either lame or feel like a total gamble.
Anyway I've been talking to some pals about it. If anyone is interested I can tell you the more interesting ideas thrown around.
You also play a 360 card cube, qq. And as I stated before, I wouldn't cube it at that size either. It's a card for mid-sized cubes with both aggro and token support.
Yeah that's a fair point. I hope people read my signature because the size and composition of my cube certainly informs my opinion about the cards I post about.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
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So I hear you say. I just don't agree. My experience is that the value is there for aggro decks. The pump bonus hits all your creatures, making blocking worse for your opponent and pushing extra damage through. It makes their dividable damage, sweepers, Earthquakes and everything else less effective against your entire board instead of just bumping one creature. I don't disagree that there are cases where other cards are better in your aggro deck. But I think there are cases where the Anthem is better than those cards would be. It's faster than equipment, and more detrimental in combat. You can point out how a Duress is better against a Wrath, and how a Sword is better when you only have one threat, and how a burn spell is better when you need removal, and how a threat is better when you have no other creatures ...but none of those cards are valuable in all situations either. There's no one option out there that will give you better value in all of those situations. You're comparing 4 different cards to 1 card, showing how each one of them is better at doing their one job than Anthem is. It's like saying Arc Trail is bad because Bolt does 3 damage for less mana, and Earthquake hits more creatures for more damage. Just because other options exist that are better in some cases doesn't mean that that card is bad.
Not to mention that token strategies exist. The Token/Anthem deck is an entire archetype. Supporting it is important. So not only is it a playable aggro card, but it's a cornerstone card for an entire deck.
You can argue all day that a Sword is better, but that doesn't change the fact that the Anthem is valuable in a ton of situations, and is a totally different type of card. It's harder to remove, harder to disrupt and helps support an entire archetype, in addition to being a good support card for your aggro horde deck.
I'm in the opposite camp from you. I used to think the card was bad. But it's proved itself over and over in play and now I can't see myself removing it from a ~540 cube.
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If this were true, it would be awesome, but you are getting a 3/2 for two cards and 1WWW. Making guys bigger is nice, but you really need three creatures for this to start to be worth the card and mana.
If you're going to equate it to haste damage it seems pretty bad at x=2. And being removal resistant isn't very useful when it does nothing without multiple other cards that aren't removal resistant. I agree, however, that it can push through extra damage by making blocks unfavorable. That's a good point.
If glorious anthem cost 0 I'd be all over it.
2 hasty damage is under the curve for cube, but it also scales with every additional creature you play.
It's extremely useful if you play it correctly. It means getting in more damage and getting through blockers without extending further into a sweeper. If I go Savannah Lions, Soltari Priest, Glorious Anthem, that's going to be more than enough to force a sweeper if the opponent has one. They sweep, and you follow up with Hero of Bladehold, Elspeth Tirel, or even just Blade Splicer with Anthem still on the board? They are now in trouble.
People who don't like Anthem keep talking about the times where it hasn't been great (and it's definitely not at its best without cards that make multiple creatures, but it's still reasonable), but none of them mention the massive upside.
Again, SO many creatures, planeswalkers, and even enchantments in cube spit out multiple dudes, either immediately or over time. The importance of anthem effects in decks with token producers cannot be overstated. It means not having to extend into sweepers or counterspells, it means getting past blockers you couldn't before, and against aggressive decks it means profitable, sustainable blocks and the speed to finish the game before they draw enough reach to dome you out. Anthem also has its nut draws - ever curve Bitterblossom into Glorious Anthem?
Anthem does overlap with equipment in some ways (resilience to sweepers, getting past blockers), but they are very different in others. Anthem is harder to remove, better against spot removal in a lot of cases, scales with every additional creature you add to the board, and requires only a one-time investment. Equipment obviously has its advantages too, but you can't claim the existence of Swords obsoletes Anthem.
Right, so if you regularly have three or more creatures out, it's good. That's just not the norm in my experience.
Yes, it's good with tokens. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. I certainly wasnt.
I'm not claiming that. My point was that I would rather maindeck any other kind of reach (burn, equipment, rancor, etc) or disruption (LD, discard, counters, bounce, etc) in a hard aggro deck unless it had a high percentage of token makers.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
It presents a really neat opportunity for card design. Making a cube worthy anthem. Something that depends a lot on what you want to support in your cube. The pieces to make an anthem good are usually there, planeswalkers, cloudgoats, supported WW, opposition, decree of justice etc, but the actual anthems we have are just either lame or feel like a total gamble.
Anyway I've been talking to some pals about it. If anyone is interested I can tell you the more interesting ideas thrown around.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Yeah that's a fair point. I hope people read my signature because the size and composition of my cube certainly informs my opinion about the cards I post about.