The card has come to stay! We were realy impressed how well it played in artifact.deck and planeswalker.deck. The increased number of great artifact creatures and planeswalkers printed in the last years improved the performance of this card.
This card is epic. I think it is 360 staple and should be in all cubes (for those who base their cubes off running the best cards). I always get scared when I see this in a pack. I usually take it because if I don't it always seems to bite me in the ass. Gifts Ungiven is another card like that for me but that's another story.
I have never seen The Abyss not drastically change a game once being dropped. I don't even think i have seen a person lose after playing this (not saying it has not happened elsewhere). The Abyss is a really dominate, hard to remove card, that controls the entire board state. Any card that can do that is an auto include in a cube for me. This and Moat create huge board control for just one card.
I have seen some awesome builds with this card involving all kinds of things. Having lots of artifact creatures is obviously the best way to utilize this card but not the only way. You can be creative in deck construction and if you use this card right it is one of the best control cards in the cube. Definitely a bonus for its rarity and being from legends for me.
Unless I drastically increase my cube size I wouldn't reinclude this card. It was very inconsistent at larger sizes, and our aggro decks run a lot more Black and artifact creatures than they did before. It limits the card to inclusion in those decks and some weird niche archetypes that don't often come together in Winston. Plus, I sold my copy. :-P
Unless I drastically increase my cube size I wouldn't reinclude this card. It was very inconsistent at larger sizes, and our aggro decks run a lot more Black and artifact creatures than they did before. It limits the card to inclusion in those decks and some weird niche archetypes that don't often come together in Winston. Plus, I sold my copy. :-P
Only artifact creatures are unaffected. The black creatures get hit by the abyss.
Can you tell me what artifact creatures are in the aggro decks? I only have Phyrexian Revoker and Molten-Tail Masticore. Most of the good artifact creatures are more control oriented.
Yeah, you're right. It's been so long since we removed it that I forgot that bit. I guess that makes it very good against aggro decks, specifically Black ones which have no or little enchantment removal. Still that's not something my control decks are currently lacking and I'd rather the immediacy of a wrath in most cases. It's a perfectly good card but not something I'd consider a must include.
Yeah, you're right. It's been so long since we removed it that I forgot that bit. I guess that makes it very good against aggro decks, specifically Black ones which have no or little enchantment removal. Still that's not something my control decks are currently lacking and I'd rather the immediacy of a wrath in most cases. It's a perfectly good card but not something I'd consider a must include.
Fair enough. Opinions can differ.
The opponent loses one creature already at his/her next upkeep. So if you land this when the opponent has only one creature out its basically GG, since it is very hard to overcome the saccing of a creature per turn, especially since the abyss deck plays black, which has lots of other removals to keep the board clean.
For us it was fantastic, especially powering this out on turn 2-3, it nullifies a lot of aggro starts with no chance of coming back. A wrath does not provide this kind of lock out for aggro decks.
I wish I still had a copy of this card. Back in the late 90s I used to terrify my local shop with an abyss/balance deck with jade monoliths racks etc. So much so that people started running Concordant Crossroads. But enough of this diversion...
I think this is only run so rarely because it is so rare. I can't think of a card I would want more for the new pox/braids/stax archetype that people are using in black.
And how many aggro artifact creatures are people running now? I think threre are less than 5 good colorless creatuers CMC < 4. And that is being generous. The only real threat in cube is Sigarda, and she is a small percentage run.
Besides Staxs, it is great in artifact decks, and I can think of few pre-planeswalkers cards I would rather drop before I drop one of them. Imagine it with Gideon, or Tezzerat, Chandra, anything really.
It is splashable, unique, hard to remove, build around me value, and costing 4 is very comparable to things like Braids.
I have run The Abyss since my cubes inception, and while it is a very interesting and powerful card, I would never classify it as a 360 staple. The addition of more viable manlands, token producers, recursion creatures, and planeswalkers have made the card easier to build around, but also easier to play around. It can occasionally be a boon against aggro decks, but can also be too little too late, where other mass removal spells might have done the trick.
Still, I am not even considering cutting it from my 500 powered, especially with the new Pox package involved.
I re-added The Abyss after it helped me clean-up two drafts in the holiday Cube. It plays similar to Moat in control (though not as oppressive which in some ways is good), has been great in the Artifact deck (which is now splashing black more since the printing of Tezzeret. Agent of Bolas and Baleful Strix), is another engine in our B/x Prison decks, and has been good in Reanimater too since the 6 drops we usually play there are Grave Titan and Wurmcoil Engine and among the reanimation targets many happen to be artifacts (Inkwell Leviathan, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Myr Battlesphere, and Sundering Titan).
Not sure if it's a 360 stable, but I am now of the opinion it is defiantly 360 playable. Only barrier in a larger cube would be price or to much dilution of potential build around synergies IMO.
I am thinking about adding The Abyss, mostly as another black support card for the artifact deck and as another card to abuse with black's recursive creatures. It also looks like an interesting card in general, since you have to work to get the most out of it. However, I am a bit worried that it could be too oppressive and too frustrating to play against.
What do you say to Call to the Grave as a budget alternative? The artifact synergy wouldn't be there and it costs 1 more, but it can still be abused with recursive creatures and tokens and is generally nice in a zombie-heavy black deck.
If you intend to combine it with a recursion engine, I prefer Magus of the Abyss, since you can also put up a lot pressure that way and you don't get into situations where the enchantment would have "locked out" both players from interacting with each other through creatures.
I like it a lot less than the original Abyss. I can't abuse it in a dedicated artifact deck and I generally fear that it will kill itself far too often. It works better in black aggressive decks though, where you can kill your smaller guys and keep a 4/3 attacker. I could try it, but I'd rather have an enchantment with that effect.
The problem the Abyss faces is that black decks that would want it aren't hurting for powerful 4 drops. In general I prefer Smokestack, Braids, or Nether Void to the Abyss, and there's only so many 4 drops you need.
It's not that it isn't good enough, it's that there are other things that are better.
Well Smokestack is an artifact so they dont compete at all for a slot, though I admit that its obviously best in a recursive black build. Braids can be worked around because they can sack any permanent, is harder to splash and is more vulnerable to removal as a creature. Nether Void is a totally different card really, a curve topper to aggro, though Abyss could be used this way against creature light control decks it would be risky and there is probably another 22nd-23rd card thats better in my pile. All in all, for a control deck that has at least a few partner cards, Id want Abyss over all your other examples. I will agree that it can be oprressive and unfun, so the folks making that argument wont get any guff from me, and it wont always pull out games the way a sweeper might help stabilize your position, but thats actually what i like most about it. Really powerful, but dependent on other cards to be broken.
We ran it before we introduced the pox support in black, and it's always been better than "solid, without being "insane". While it doesn't quite have the same power level as sulfuric vortex, it has similar impact as being game warping. We like swingy cards in our cube, so this has always been fun.
It's power has obviously increased in pox decks, but not hugely so, because pox & friends are just another way to de-symmetrize the abyss.
It is not as oppressive as I initially feared. Gets played in creature-light control decks almost as much as in Stax decks. Has rarely seen play in true Artifact decks, but it can be pretty one-sided in those. Not a must-have, but I am not unhappy that I bought one.
Considering that this seems to be five-star card for a lot of you, and considering the ever-increasing amount of zombies in cube, how do you all feel about Call to the Grave?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
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I have never seen The Abyss not drastically change a game once being dropped. I don't even think i have seen a person lose after playing this (not saying it has not happened elsewhere). The Abyss is a really dominate, hard to remove card, that controls the entire board state. Any card that can do that is an auto include in a cube for me. This and Moat create huge board control for just one card.
I have seen some awesome builds with this card involving all kinds of things. Having lots of artifact creatures is obviously the best way to utilize this card but not the only way. You can be creative in deck construction and if you use this card right it is one of the best control cards in the cube. Definitely a bonus for its rarity and being from legends for me.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Only artifact creatures are unaffected. The black creatures get hit by the abyss.
Can you tell me what artifact creatures are in the aggro decks? I only have Phyrexian Revoker and Molten-Tail Masticore. Most of the good artifact creatures are more control oriented.
I realy cannot agree with your statement.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Fair enough. Opinions can differ.
The opponent loses one creature already at his/her next upkeep. So if you land this when the opponent has only one creature out its basically GG, since it is very hard to overcome the saccing of a creature per turn, especially since the abyss deck plays black, which has lots of other removals to keep the board clean.
For us it was fantastic, especially powering this out on turn 2-3, it nullifies a lot of aggro starts with no chance of coming back. A wrath does not provide this kind of lock out for aggro decks.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I think this is only run so rarely because it is so rare. I can't think of a card I would want more for the new pox/braids/stax archetype that people are using in black.
And how many aggro artifact creatures are people running now? I think threre are less than 5 good colorless creatuers CMC < 4. And that is being generous. The only real threat in cube is Sigarda, and she is a small percentage run.
Besides Staxs, it is great in artifact decks, and I can think of few pre-planeswalkers cards I would rather drop before I drop one of them. Imagine it with Gideon, or Tezzerat, Chandra, anything really.
It is splashable, unique, hard to remove, build around me value, and costing 4 is very comparable to things like Braids.
Still, I am not even considering cutting it from my 500 powered, especially with the new Pox package involved.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
There's also Porcelain Legionnaire, the Blade Splicer token and Lodestone Golem that are all commonly cubed and played in aggro decks.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Not sure if it's a 360 stable, but I am now of the opinion it is defiantly 360 playable. Only barrier in a larger cube would be price or to much dilution of potential build around synergies IMO.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
What do you say to Call to the Grave as a budget alternative? The artifact synergy wouldn't be there and it costs 1 more, but it can still be abused with recursive creatures and tokens and is generally nice in a zombie-heavy black deck.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I like it a lot less than the original Abyss. I can't abuse it in a dedicated artifact deck and I generally fear that it will kill itself far too often. It works better in black aggressive decks though, where you can kill your smaller guys and keep a 4/3 attacker. I could try it, but I'd rather have an enchantment with that effect.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Well Smokestack is an artifact so they dont compete at all for a slot, though I admit that its obviously best in a recursive black build. Braids can be worked around because they can sack any permanent, is harder to splash and is more vulnerable to removal as a creature. Nether Void is a totally different card really, a curve topper to aggro, though Abyss could be used this way against creature light control decks it would be risky and there is probably another 22nd-23rd card thats better in my pile. All in all, for a control deck that has at least a few partner cards, Id want Abyss over all your other examples. I will agree that it can be oprressive and unfun, so the folks making that argument wont get any guff from me, and it wont always pull out games the way a sweeper might help stabilize your position, but thats actually what i like most about it. Really powerful, but dependent on other cards to be broken.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
It's power has obviously increased in pox decks, but not hugely so, because pox & friends are just another way to de-symmetrize the abyss.
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
thats my cube
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690