I'm looking forward to seeing what else comes up for Orzhov. I find that lack of actual combat abilities troubling - I don't see him attacking that often. Rather, I think we'll just end up with a more restrictive but stronger and harder to cast subversion. I'd almost rather have the new Deathpact angel - At least she has evasion (tho I find the 1/1 almost laughable).
He's probably my joint fourth favourite Orzhov card alongside Gerrard's Verdict, so he will probably miss out in my cube. He a real house though and I hope the Simic guild leader is of a similar calibre, because that would be a slam inclusion.
Besides Vindicate & Sorin I'm not very impressed with the Orzhov options -- Happy to try this out if nothing better comes along. Hard to remove 4point lifeswings is dealbreaking against plenty of decks.
Right, it's not subversion obviously, but an upgrade. Why do people calculate the damage thinking that people simply won't block? I understand that it's then a cruel edict every turn, but not having any combat abilities means he can be chumped. If one chooses to exile him then he can't block. If he needs to stay back and block, then you're simply getting a 5/5 for 5 mana that doesn't affect the board at all.
Right, it's not subversion obviously, but an upgrade. Why do people calculate the damage thinking that people simply won't block? I understand that it's then a cruel edict every turn, but not having any combat abilities means he can be chumped. If one chooses to exile him then he can't block. If he needs to stay back and block, then you're simply getting a 5/5 for 5 mana that doesn't affect the board at all.
All of this is true, but a 5/5 for five being the WCS isn't so bad. If you are ahead or even close he is a Cruel Edict (EDIT: I meant a drain life for two) plus a 5/5 attacker, which is quite a BCS. I would be worried about him getting chumped if he weren't adding any other value to the equation.
Right, it's not subversion obviously, but an upgrade. Why do people calculate the damage thinking that people simply won't block? I understand that it's then a cruel edict every turn, but not having any combat abilities means he can be chumped. If one chooses to exile him then he can't block. If he needs to stay back and block, then you're simply getting a 5/5 for 5 mana that doesn't affect the board at all.
A subversion upgrade is kind of an enormous understatement.
Subversion II 1WWBB
enchantment
"Protection from sorceries.
whenever ~ ETB and At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent loses 2 life, and you gain 2 life, and that player may sacrifice a creature, if he/she doesn't he/she loses 5 life."
yeah, it's not quite the same as an edict, but edicts can't be equipped, either. I might be wrong, but I think this guy is great. I'd throw him in an esper blink deck, despite the cost, and I think it's a pretty solid reanimation target, too.
I think this guy is pretty interesting and it's not like Orzhov is full of insane ones already. I am only really attached to Linger Souls, Vindicate, and Sorin.
Testing him and he's definitely a solid 4th behind Vindicate, Souls/Sorin, but still very very good and unless something better comes along in Orzhov, I'm very happy with him and will cube it.
He reminds me of what I wanted Sorin Markov to be as a way to close games, except with a sizable clock of his own (of course this guy can't hit planeswalkers/other creatures, but the cheaper cost and the 5/5 body is a trade I'm willing to make.) I've been using it more often to autoblink (with the idea that "well, if I'm not blocking with him, might as well blink him" and when the coast is clear to attack and blink, there's so much value gained and it puts the opponent under a quick clock. I've also noticed just how good being able to just go into blink mode when the board is stagnant and found myself doing it more often than I anticipated, since there are so few ways to kill him and the mana cost hasn't been too awkward either as others have noted.
It's definitely going to be more attractive to my drafters than desolation angel. I'm looking forward to using it. Thanks for the input, Usman. Keep us posted on any additional results.
Desolation Angel is one of my favorite cards ever but it is just too slow in most cubes (including mine). This guy seems way better & I hope to play him tomorrow.
I love Desolation Angel (one of my pettiest pet cards) so I'll be trying to play both (which is cool, because they'll likely want to be played together anyways).
I love Desolation Angel (one of my pettiest pet cards) so I'll be trying to play both (which is cool, because they'll likely want to be played together anyways).
To be fair, you have a pretty damn sick alter of Deso Angel.
(Also just had it smash a UR counterburn deck; oh hey, nice wall of Consecrated Sphinx, etc., you still lose 2 a turn)
I've tried him out, and I quite like it. He's certainly more interesting than Angel of Despair. He's also quite a fast clock on an empty board, and can help stabilize against the faster aggro decks. I resolved him against an opponent once who had no outs to him because all his answers were at sorcery speed.
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Lingering Souls is pretty amazing too.
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QFT, was about to post that. That's my 2nd favourite Orzhov card.
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All of this is true, but a 5/5 for five being the WCS isn't so bad. If you are ahead or even close he is a Cruel Edict (EDIT: I meant a drain life for two) plus a 5/5 attacker, which is quite a BCS. I would be worried about him getting chumped if he weren't adding any other value to the equation.
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Whoops. Got Cruel Edict confused with...isn't there a black sorcery that drains two? Oh well. Edited above.
I put it at 3rd behind Sorin at 2nd and Vindicate at 1st.
I think council in 4th spot, and currently the strongest guild leader for cube.
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A subversion upgrade is kind of an enormous understatement.
Subversion II 1WWBB
enchantment
"Protection from sorceries.
whenever ~ ETB and At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent loses 2 life, and you gain 2 life, and that player may sacrifice a creature, if he/she doesn't he/she loses 5 life."
yeah, it's not quite the same as an edict, but edicts can't be equipped, either. I might be wrong, but I think this guy is great. I'd throw him in an esper blink deck, despite the cost, and I think it's a pretty solid reanimation target, too.
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didnt catch that on first pass. I may try him out then
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
He reminds me of what I wanted Sorin Markov to be as a way to close games, except with a sizable clock of his own (of course this guy can't hit planeswalkers/other creatures, but the cheaper cost and the 5/5 body is a trade I'm willing to make.) I've been using it more often to autoblink (with the idea that "well, if I'm not blocking with him, might as well blink him" and when the coast is clear to attack and blink, there's so much value gained and it puts the opponent under a quick clock. I've also noticed just how good being able to just go into blink mode when the board is stagnant and found myself doing it more often than I anticipated, since there are so few ways to kill him and the mana cost hasn't been too awkward either as others have noted.
Very very solid.
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To be fair, you have a pretty damn sick alter of Deso Angel.
(Also just had it smash a UR counterburn deck; oh hey, nice wall of Consecrated Sphinx, etc., you still lose 2 a turn)
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Pudding Poppa seems pretty darn good too.
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