True. This is kinda important, actually. In the past MaRo has said that they didn't want to print Destroy Target Planeswalker because they were teaching players that they were planeswalkers, and didn't want to have confusion about why it couldn't destroy players. Hence, all the destroy target noncreature permanent, or remove all counters from a permanent, or exile nonland permanent, etc. Interesting to see them actually referencing planeswalkers.
I'm guessing Despise should've shown this was coming, but I'm still surprised.
Is this guy good enough? Red and black both want better 2 drops . . .
Card is auto-include for me. I've been willing to play a RR 2/1 haste for years if they would only print it, so I'll take this card in a heartbeat. If hybrid cards are good, people are gonna really want to rethink their guild systems they have in place very soon...
I'd play the Rakdos guy with haste if he was RR, I'm just not sure my BR section has enough space for him. I'm already rebuilding my guild section to fit more R/B cards in it, but the Destroy Target Planeswalker card seems better than this guy already . . . and we have a lot more cards to go.
Another interesting thing: When populate was spoiled, we said it would need to have cards that created their own tokens before it was even close to cubable. From the rules article, this quote: "Like many (although not all) populate cards, Eyes in the Skies gives you a token to get you started."
So this card isn't powerful enough to cube with, but it's interesting to see confirmation that many populate cards will give you a token to start with.
Well, good bye Bit Blast. It's nice knowing you. I'm pump for that new card.
EDIT: Terminate is gone, too. I can't believe I'm exchanging two cards in my B/R section. I thought it's pretty solid. Dreadbore is awesome.
Mizzium Mortars Look decent. 6 mana for one side 4 damage aren't a bad deal at all. It's fine at 2 mana too, as a removal.
I might consider Fencing Ace. Him+Equipment is pretty nice.
Jace, Architect of Thought is ok. I put him on same level as Tamiyo. Tamiyo is probably the next card to leave my cube for the next good blue card, though. So I can't say I'm interested in him.
I want to cube Azorius Charm so bad... I don't think it's good enough though.
Judge's Familiar is cute. Wish he had bigger size, though.
Lyev Skyknight looks interesting. I don't think it's better than Wall of Denial, though.
Selesnya Charm actually looks pretty awesome. I can think of use for almost all of its mode.
Jace, Architect of Thought2UU
Planeswalker - Jace
+1 : Until your next turn, whenever a creature an opponent controls attacks, it gets -1/-0 until end of turn.
-2 : Reveal the top three cards of your library. An opponent separates them into two piles. Put one pile into your hand and the other on the bottom of your library in any order.
-8 : For each player, search that player's library for a nonland card and exile it, then that player shuffles his or her library. You may cast those cards without paying their mana costs.
{4}
Mizzium Mortars1R
Sorcery
Mizzium Mortars deals 4 damage to target creature you don't control.
Overload 3RRR (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each".)
Mizzium Mortars is very good, and best of all... it's secretly a board sweeper. I'm thinking about replacing Pyroclasm, due to its high variance.
Dreadbore BR
Sorcery
Destroy target creature or planeswalker.
Deadbore is so insane! More planeswalker removal and in aggressive colors. I usually wouldn't splash Terminate in a BR deck but this card I would, easily replaces Terminate.
Rakdos Shred-Freak (B/R)(B/R)
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste
2/1
Rakdos Shred-Freak is very cool too, it's the 1R 2/1 haster we've been wanting, and he fits in black too! The best part is, he can block too!
Selesnya Charm(G/W)(G/W)
Instant
Choose one - Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn; or exile target creature with power 5 or greater; or put a 2/2 white Knight creature token with vigilance onto the battlefield.
Selesnya Charm is very good. I hope I can squeeze it in.
Izzet Charm(U/R)(U/R)
Instant
Choose One - Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays ; or Izzet Charm deals 2 damage to target creature; or draw two cards, then discard two cards.
Replaces Izzet Signet easily, very flexible for 2 mana instant speed. Hope more charms are near this power level.
Chromatic Lantern 3
Artifact
Lands you control have "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Gatecreeper Vine is pretty good, it ramps and it saves you some damage. But at 0/2 it probably wouldn't be making it in a lot of cubes. At 0/3 I think he would.
Azorius Charm is a disappointment, it's not even close to on par with Izzet Charm but at least it's also instant which will probably be a key aspect in part of the cycle.
I very much so like the "gate" mechanic that will be playing a huge roll in limited. This set looks tons of fun to draft in Cube as well as pack drafts.
I think muckwader is better than him and you already don't run muckwader. though i may be wrong.
Muckwater requires you to play for black and red, and requires that you have a swamp (and not a pain land or the likes). Freak requires a flexible BB, BR, or RR.
Pauper cubes are super excited beyond all reason for this cycle, right? I'm intrigued so far by the two cards that can find gates, but sadly they'd have to also have the land types for them to make it into normal cubes, I'm thinking. I can't imagine how good a card that could find gates or cared about gates would have to be for me to fit these into my cube. But it seems pretty great for pauper.
I'd play the Rakdos guy with haste if he was RR, I'm just not sure my BR section has enough space for him. I'm already rebuilding my guild section to fit more R/B cards in it, but the Destroy Target Planeswalker card seems better than this guy already . . . and we have a lot more cards to go.
That argument against him baffles me, because if you'd play it at RR, you should just put him in your red section. Or if you are OCD and cant handle your sections looking slightly awry, make a separate hybrid section.
So where does Jace 4.0 rank among the blue planeswalkers for you guys?
man, i'm sick of all these jaces.
i don't think i like him more than any of my other blue walkers. i'm not sure i'll run him at 360. definitely a good card, though. i'll have to think about it.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Any thoughts on Guttersnipe? A gray ogre is pretty lackluster, yes, but burning your opponent for 2 each time you cast an instant or sorcery is pretty nice.
Rakdos Shred Freak - IN! (color balancing is another thing, this and redcap might occupy one red slot and 1 black slot?)
Rakdos' Return - only exceeds Blightning at 5 mana, so maybe no.
Izzet Charm - IN
Mizzium Mortars - i always want red to be able to deal direct damage, so very unlikely.
Jace 4 - kills aggro, the Bribery ability is bad against aggro. I think ill pass on Jace and stick with J1, J2 and the Moon Sage.
Deadbore - not sure yet, but definitely this and Terminate compete for 1 slot, and ultimately depends on how much you want PWs to be controlled.
Chromatic Lantern - IN! (also in my artifact cube - IN!)
Transguild Promenade - IN! (in my artifact cube and pauper cube) - in regular cube.. maybe not. I wished they reprinted Rupture Spire.. so fitting in a city plane.
EDIT: Guildgates are autoincludes in my Pauper cube!
I'm definitely going to run Shred Freak. It seems far to great not to run.
I'm undecided on Jace. I like Tamiyo better, but Jace's -2 is nice, especially when he comes in with 4.
Deadbore may end up making it in mine as well. I like Terminate better, and will pick it over Deadbore almost always, but only 11/23 of the walkers in my cube are in Bloodbraid, Blightning or Bolt range (our common planeswalker killers). On the other hand, I run 540, so with 23 planeswalkers, they don't come up as often.
I'm tempted to run Chromatic Lantern. I almost feel like it makes mana fixing too easy though, and I enjoy punishing my friends for not drafting their fixing properly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing in EDH:
W Jazal Goldmane WR Daretti, Scrap Savant R B Ghoulcaller Gisa BUG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UGBG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RGUB Dragonlord Silumgar UB UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBGWUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRGBRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUBUBR Thraximundar UBR URG Yasova Dragonclaw URGWUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBGWUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
If you would cube it at :symr::symr:, cube it at :symbr::symbr:.
Classification is your tool, it's not your master, never let it go in your way.
I agree. Still I'm a bit OCD, so I need some "order". I now have hybrids replace 1/2 a card in each of its colors. It does requires even total numbers of hybrids per color (example: Stilmoon Cavalier, Figure of Destiny, and Murderous Redcap total 2 white, 2 black, 2 red ... So I cut 1 of each mono color section since the hybrids can play in either ... 1/2 card each). It's not hard to stretch to make this work. If you add a borderline one to make whole numbers it's better than trying to evenly fill out all hybrid guild sections IMO.
Please stop making a SCD for EVERY SINGLE CARD. I'm not sure if the goal of a SCD is explicitly stated somewhere but I was always under the impression that it was a place to A) ask about or discuss the viability of a card with other people who actually have experience with the card or B) share your experiences with a card and argue why other people should try it. Most of the threads are just going to be filled with "I dunno, seems ok" type comments because nobody has played with these cards yet. The threads will be useless as archives as the first few pages (if any discussion is generated) will just be filled with speculation. I'd rather keep the speculation/theory in the main thread and actual information, once we can play with these cards, in SCD threads. Has something changed about the way SCDs work in this forum? Doing it your way just seems like it will create a ton of clutter in the forum.
Furthermore, I don't like how you're just putting up a picture of the card. If you have an opinion on it, a strong argument for inclusion in Cubes of a particular size/theme share it - that actually promotes discussion because we have a jumping point which I think is important for a thread dedicated to a singular card. Otherwise it's just making threads for the sake of making threads. Some cards are obvious stinkers outside of specific specialty/theme cubes. Do we really need an entire thread to discuss Wayfaring Temple or Grove of the Guardians?
I prefer the simplicity of the old forum format. I can see the merit of having some scd and mcd threads but not for every single possible cube card that gets printed. I see no problem with discussing the entire set in one thread and then letting in naturally branch out from there.
Well cards can reference the gates and do interesting things because of them. I think they just needed something to make limited run smooth and this was their fix instead of printing another signet variant.
Lots of good cards last night. All the Charms seem good. Jace seems good. I like the black Rat token generator as a nice discard outlet and a way to turn your extra lands into serious threats. The Rakdos haste creature is cool. The Izzet dragon is also cool; sorceries with flash are good, and big hastey creatures are too. Chromatic Lantern is one of the better fixers for 3+color decks ever; almost as good as C Relic. Very nice so far. Also, a terminate that can blast 'Walkers is pretty hot.
Also, we should've had a forum vote on SCD RtR threads before spamming the living **** out of the Discussion forum.
I'm guessing Despise should've shown this was coming, but I'm still surprised.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Is this guy good enough? Red and black both want better 2 drops . . .
Image leeching replaced.
—Lanxal
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Card is auto-include for me. I've been willing to play a RR 2/1 haste for years if they would only print it, so I'll take this card in a heartbeat. If hybrid cards are good, people are gonna really want to rethink their guild systems they have in place very soon...
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Another interesting thing: When populate was spoiled, we said it would need to have cards that created their own tokens before it was even close to cubable. From the rules article, this quote: "Like many (although not all) populate cards, Eyes in the Skies gives you a token to get you started."
So this card isn't powerful enough to cube with, but it's interesting to see confirmation that many populate cards will give you a token to start with.
Image leeching replaced.
—Lanxal
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
EDIT: Terminate is gone, too. I can't believe I'm exchanging two cards in my B/R section. I thought it's pretty solid. Dreadbore is awesome.
Mizzium Mortars Look decent. 6 mana for one side 4 damage aren't a bad deal at all. It's fine at 2 mana too, as a removal.
I might consider Fencing Ace. Him+Equipment is pretty nice.
Jace, Architect of Thought is ok. I put him on same level as Tamiyo. Tamiyo is probably the next card to leave my cube for the next good blue card, though. So I can't say I'm interested in him.
I want to cube Azorius Charm so bad... I don't think it's good enough though.
Judge's Familiar is cute. Wish he had bigger size, though.
Lyev Skyknight looks interesting. I don't think it's better than Wall of Denial, though.
Selesnya Charm actually looks pretty awesome. I can think of use for almost all of its mode.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Jace, Architect of Thought 2UU
Planeswalker - Jace
+1 : Until your next turn, whenever a creature an opponent controls attacks, it gets -1/-0 until end of turn.
-2 : Reveal the top three cards of your library. An opponent separates them into two piles. Put one pile into your hand and the other on the bottom of your library in any order.
-8 : For each player, search that player's library for a nonland card and exile it, then that player shuffles his or her library. You may cast those cards without paying their mana costs.
{4}
Jace, Architect of Thought is defiantly the weakest Jace but who cares? Still powerful and at 2UU he will be stabilizing a lot more games than Tamiyo, the Moon Sage could.
Mizzium Mortars 1R
Sorcery
Mizzium Mortars deals 4 damage to target creature you don't control.
Overload 3RRR (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each".)
Mizzium Mortars is very good, and best of all... it's secretly a board sweeper. I'm thinking about replacing Pyroclasm, due to its high variance.
Deadbridge Goliath 2GG
Creature - Insect
Scavenge 4GG
5/5
Solid fatty. Good in play, good in the grave.
Dreadbore
BR
Sorcery
Destroy target creature or planeswalker.
Deadbore is so insane! More planeswalker removal and in aggressive colors. I usually wouldn't splash Terminate in a BR deck but this card I would, easily replaces Terminate.
Rakdos Shred-Freak (B/R)(B/R)
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste
2/1
Rakdos Shred-Freak is very cool too, it's the 1R 2/1 haster we've been wanting, and he fits in black too! The best part is, he can block too!
Selesnya Charm (G/W)(G/W)
Instant
Choose one - Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn; or exile target creature with power 5 or greater; or put a 2/2 white Knight creature token with vigilance onto the battlefield.
Selesnya Charm is very good. I hope I can squeeze it in.
Izzet Charm (U/R)(U/R)
Instant
Choose One - Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays ; or Izzet Charm deals 2 damage to target creature; or draw two cards, then discard two cards.
Replaces Izzet Signet easily, very flexible for 2 mana instant speed. Hope more charms are near this power level.
Chromatic Lantern 3
Artifact
Lands you control have "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Chromatic Lantern is like a "poor man's" Coalition Relic, which is still looking mighty powerful. Plays nicely with Ancient Tomb and Maze of Ith too. I'll be making room for it.
Gatecreeper Vine is pretty good, it ramps and it saves you some damage. But at 0/2 it probably wouldn't be making it in a lot of cubes. At 0/3 I think he would.
Azorius Charm is a disappointment, it's not even close to on par with Izzet Charm but at least it's also instant which will probably be a key aspect in part of the cycle.
I very much so like the "gate" mechanic that will be playing a huge roll in limited. This set looks tons of fun to draft in Cube as well as pack drafts.
Muckwater requires you to play for black and red, and requires that you have a swamp (and not a pain land or the likes). Freak requires a flexible BB, BR, or RR.
Pauper cubes are super excited beyond all reason for this cycle, right? I'm intrigued so far by the two cards that can find gates, but sadly they'd have to also have the land types for them to make it into normal cubes, I'm thinking. I can't imagine how good a card that could find gates or cared about gates would have to be for me to fit these into my cube. But it seems pretty great for pauper.
Image leeching replaced.
—Lanxal
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
That argument against him baffles me, because if you'd play it at RR, you should just put him in your red section. Or if you are OCD and cant handle your sections looking slightly awry, make a separate hybrid section.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
man, i'm sick of all these jaces.
i don't think i like him more than any of my other blue walkers. i'm not sure i'll run him at 360. definitely a good card, though. i'll have to think about it.
Rakdos' Return - only exceeds Blightning at 5 mana, so maybe no.
Izzet Charm - IN
Mizzium Mortars - i always want red to be able to deal direct damage, so very unlikely.
Jace 4 - kills aggro, the Bribery ability is bad against aggro. I think ill pass on Jace and stick with J1, J2 and the Moon Sage.
Deadbore - not sure yet, but definitely this and Terminate compete for 1 slot, and ultimately depends on how much you want PWs to be controlled.
Chromatic Lantern - IN! (also in my artifact cube - IN!)
Transguild Promenade - IN! (in my artifact cube and pauper cube) - in regular cube.. maybe not. I wished they reprinted Rupture Spire.. so fitting in a city plane.
EDIT: Guildgates are autoincludes in my Pauper cube!
Probably Dreadbore. I agree it's better than Terminate.
Maybe Jace. Can I run J2, J3 and J4 and Tamiyo in a 42 card section? J4 is weaker than these.
No for the hybrid haste guy. I don't like the double coloured mana cost a whole lot.
Selesnya Charm is fantastic, but we know how tight space is there.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Judge's Famliar w/u
Creature- Bird
Flying
Sac ~: Counter target instant or sorcery unless it's controller pays 1.
1/1
It's a one drop creature that will see play in any white or blue deck.
And Dreadbore flat out replaces terminate in cubes now. Losing instant speed and regeneration clause is worth it to hit planeswalkers.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I'm undecided on Jace. I like Tamiyo better, but Jace's -2 is nice, especially when he comes in with 4.
Deadbore may end up making it in mine as well. I like Terminate better, and will pick it over Deadbore almost always, but only 11/23 of the walkers in my cube are in Bloodbraid, Blightning or Bolt range (our common planeswalker killers). On the other hand, I run 540, so with 23 planeswalkers, they don't come up as often.
I'm tempted to run Chromatic Lantern. I almost feel like it makes mana fixing too easy though, and I enjoy punishing my friends for not drafting their fixing properly.
W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
I agree. Still I'm a bit OCD, so I need some "order". I now have hybrids replace 1/2 a card in each of its colors. It does requires even total numbers of hybrids per color (example: Stilmoon Cavalier, Figure of Destiny, and Murderous Redcap total 2 white, 2 black, 2 red ... So I cut 1 of each mono color section since the hybrids can play in either ... 1/2 card each). It's not hard to stretch to make this work. If you add a borderline one to make whole numbers it's better than trying to evenly fill out all hybrid guild sections IMO.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
Please stop making a SCD for EVERY SINGLE CARD. I'm not sure if the goal of a SCD is explicitly stated somewhere but I was always under the impression that it was a place to A) ask about or discuss the viability of a card with other people who actually have experience with the card or B) share your experiences with a card and argue why other people should try it. Most of the threads are just going to be filled with "I dunno, seems ok" type comments because nobody has played with these cards yet. The threads will be useless as archives as the first few pages (if any discussion is generated) will just be filled with speculation. I'd rather keep the speculation/theory in the main thread and actual information, once we can play with these cards, in SCD threads. Has something changed about the way SCDs work in this forum? Doing it your way just seems like it will create a ton of clutter in the forum.
Furthermore, I don't like how you're just putting up a picture of the card. If you have an opinion on it, a strong argument for inclusion in Cubes of a particular size/theme share it - that actually promotes discussion because we have a jumping point which I think is important for a thread dedicated to a singular card. Otherwise it's just making threads for the sake of making threads. Some cards are obvious stinkers outside of specific specialty/theme cubes. Do we really need an entire thread to discuss Wayfaring Temple or Grove of the Guardians?
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
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Also, we should've had a forum vote on SCD RtR threads before spamming the living **** out of the Discussion forum.
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