I like my four simic cards: Trygon Predator, Simic Sky Swallower, Edric, and Mystic Snake. Though I feel mystic snake is the most important due to how fun crystal shard decks are, all are pretty expendable when gatecrash comes out.
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I like my four simic cards: Trygon Predator, Simic Sky Swallower, Edric, and Mystic Snake. Though I feel mystic snake is the most important due to how fun crystal shard decks are, all are pretty expendable when gatecrash comes out.
I run the same four. I think they are all pretty great role-players in various decks. I'd cut Edric first and I'd be most unhappy to lose Trygon. Although none of these cards are bad, I'm not especially attached to any of them.
None of the Simic cards we have now are really important for the cube or necessary for Green or Blue. I like Edric the most, but he is not an card a lot of decks need. They will gladly use him, but if he doesn't come out, no Green-blue deck will be much weaker.
Mystic Snake never really worked for us.
Trygon Predator is a card that has value, but green has a lot of answers beside it.
Simic Sky Swallower is nice, but is the that much better then the mono coloured finishers? We felt not, so cut him.
I'm hoping they really give simic an identity this time around. now that flash is officially green and secondary blue, I feel like we might get a pretty insane card or 2.
How has shardless agent been for those who run it? it seems like it would hit counterspells a lot.
I'd rather had coiling oracle as a 5th than shardless agent. Of course he hits counterspell a lot, he plays in UG so you have blue instant or mana dorks that comes into play, it's quite rare to cascade something really valuable with him.
About the 4 others, well, the one I value the most is Mystic Snake. It is staple or near staple status for me. And Edric is such a bomb in UG aggro.
The SSS and trygon can be cut really without regrets if we get some serious stuff.
I think Prime Speaker Zegana is bonkers. Not clear that Mystic Genesis gets in over Mystic Snake. Master Biomancer seems strong but does little on its own. Simic Charm is quite flexible but isn't all that powerful. Thoughts?
Simic Charm is solid, and can be a good #5 for your Simic section. Ziggy can draw you a lot of cards in her BCS, but when she's bad, she's superbad. If you're cool with that, she's a fun inclusion. Similarly, Biomancer can be the centerpiece of some powerful plays, but is total crap on its own. If you go all in on tempo support, the 2-mana flash evolve 2/1 is solid. A lot of okay options, no great ones.
Really? That card was terribad for us. A 3cc cantrip Humble does not a cube card make.
I know! ...which is why I'm usually by myself on this one.
Aside from being a great removal spell in a green deck, the beauty of it comes from your opponent never expecting it.
As magic evolves, magic is taking all these powerful abilities and strapping them to creatures. So, your opponent feels secure with a dude or 2 with an awesome ability, and this card means that any creature can trade with a Mons's Goblin Raiders.
It's practically a Terminate in colors that are usually forced to deal with creatures by bouncing or just being bigger... white doesn't need a humble effect, but green definitely can, and blue can use it because of the cantrip.
I've only kept it in because of the consistent good plays it sees.
I think Edric is better than Shambleshark. Its upside is far greater. Just drawing 2-3 extra cards is a lot better than a 2/1 flash that might get bigger.
If you have a really big Simic section (at least 6+) and you really push UG tempo decks, I could see the flash crab fish making it in. Otherwise, it's simply outclassed by better options. But it's certainly not better than any of those 4, especially not Edric.
We play Shambleshark, and he's been pretty good so far in limited testing. For my personal cube, he has been added because I feel he fills a role that needs filling, and not because I think he is abstractly a better card than other cards (like Edric). My cube currently pushes U/G/x tempo, and I can't imagine I would play him if I didn't.
Eidolon describes him as a 2/1, but in our play so far he is a 3/2 most of the time. I consider a 3/2 with flash for 2 mana pretty darn good for a tempo deck.
U/G/x tempo decks have a lot of depth at the 3 mana slot, both as instants and creatures. Creatures like Vendilion Clique and Wolfir Avenger allow you to hold up countermagic and then flash in a dude if they don't play anything worth countering, thus maximizing your mana. However, those same U/G/x decks have a TON of 2CMC counterspells, and don't have very many 2CMC creatures with flash you could consider playing to fit that role. Shambleshark, Plaxmanta, and (long shot) Spellstutter Sprite are about all I can think of that you could consider.
Ultimately, for me, it's not about what the better card is, it's about what the cube needs. I play a 450 cube, and here are the 2 drops and 3 drops in U/G that I would consider playing in a tempo deck.
2CMC (10)
Wild Mongrel
Strangleroot Geist
Tarmogoyf
Scavenging Ooze
Lotus Cobra
Mayor of Avabruck
Looter il-Kor
Phantasmal Image
Waterfront Bouncer (maybe?)
Snapcaster Mage (really doesn't count as a 2 drop)
3CMC (13)
Slaughterhorn
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Eternal Witness
Call of the Herd
AEther Adept
Vendilion Clique
Wake Thrasher
Man-o-War
Serendib Efreet
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Pestermite
Trygon Predator
Putting aside the fact that I have some questionable cards in there (Slaughterhorn, Wake Thrasher, etc.), I find that my U/G tempo decks ultimately don't need more than 3, maybe 4 three drop creatures in them, and that what they really want is an earlier board presence than that. I don't need to use the U/G guild section to provide 3 drops for that deck. There are tons of good ones. However, the deck wants MORE 2 drops than three drops, and I find that in most drafts I end up trimming the top end of my tempo decks and playing every low CMC card I was able to draft. As a result, I'm playing a card like Shambleshark, and my tempo decks are better decks overall, even though Edric might be an abstractly more powerful card.
Is he really a 3/2 with Flash? It seems that the Flash and Evolve play somewhat at odds with each other: if you are playing him as a surprise blocker you are unlikely to be able to grow him with the evolve.
I'd be inclined to address the lack of 2-drops in my monocoloured sections rather than play a rather borderline card in my multicolour section.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
if you are playing him as a surprise blocker you are unlikely to be able to grow him with the evolve.
I don't think he's being played as a surprise blocker, I think he's being played on the end-step as a surprise attacker the next turn, which, in that case he can be read as UG for a 3/2 haste as long as you're on curve, which is pretty great when you are, but still a turn 2 drop with 2 power that evades sorcery speed removal before his first attack if you can't trigger evolve. I am honestly ok with either of those outcomes if I'm playing U/G/x tempo.
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Currently playing in EDH:
W Jazal Goldmane WR Daretti, Scrap Savant R B Ghoulcaller Gisa BUG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UGBG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RGUB Dragonlord Silumgar UB UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBGWUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRGBRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUBUBR Thraximundar UBR URG Yasova Dragonclaw URGWUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBGWUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
I think the Simic guild has somewhat of an identity crisis in cube. As far as my group goes, Skyswallower goes to reanimator, Edric goes to Bant tempo, Predator is all over the place and no one plays Mystic Snake or Voidslime.
Gatecrash didn't quite give me what I wanted to do with the guild, but I'm going to try a few different things with it. Right now I'm trying out Predator, Simic Charm, Master Biomancer, Mystic Snake, Zegana and Zameck Guildmage (huge multicolor section, I know), trying to see if some sort of midrangey deck will see play. I'm hoping once Dragon's Maze comes out there will be one or two more aggressively costed Simic cards that will allow me to try out an agro-tempo deck as well, with Edric, Predator, Shambleshark and possibly Biomass Mutation (though I don't expect much from Biomass). I think smoothing out this guild and giving it some real identity is going to be my major cube project for the next few months though. I'll record all of my observations and maybe do a full write up on it after I'm done if anyone is interested.
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Currently playing in EDH:
W Jazal Goldmane WR Daretti, Scrap Savant R B Ghoulcaller Gisa BUG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UGBG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RGUB Dragonlord Silumgar UB UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBGWUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRGBRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUBUBR Thraximundar UBR URG Yasova Dragonclaw URGWUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBGWUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Progenitor Mimic is a personal favourite and can create some fun plays. Only problem is it's susceptibility to removal. Snakeform has been okay in the past but usually seems to be lacking.
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I didn't realise that was neccesary. I'll re-do my list in deckstats this weekend.
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I am currently running Edric but I won't be sad to cut him when I get a better Simic card.
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I run the same four. I think they are all pretty great role-players in various decks. I'd cut Edric first and I'd be most unhappy to lose Trygon. Although none of these cards are bad, I'm not especially attached to any of them.
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rant
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Mystic Snake never really worked for us.
Trygon Predator is a card that has value, but green has a lot of answers beside it.
Simic Sky Swallower is nice, but is the that much better then the mono coloured finishers? We felt not, so cut him.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
How has shardless agent been for those who run it? it seems like it would hit counterspells a lot.
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I haven't been impressed so far.
It's currently my number 5 UG card after the usual 4 suspects.
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About the 4 others, well, the one I value the most is Mystic Snake. It is staple or near staple status for me. And Edric is such a bomb in UG aggro.
The SSS and trygon can be cut really without regrets if we get some serious stuff.
I think Prime Speaker Zegana is bonkers. Not clear that Mystic Genesis gets in over Mystic Snake. Master Biomancer seems strong but does little on its own. Simic Charm is quite flexible but isn't all that powerful. Thoughts?
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I know! ...which is why I'm usually by myself on this one.
Aside from being a great removal spell in a green deck, the beauty of it comes from your opponent never expecting it.
As magic evolves, magic is taking all these powerful abilities and strapping them to creatures. So, your opponent feels secure with a dude or 2 with an awesome ability, and this card means that any creature can trade with a Mons's Goblin Raiders.
It's practically a Terminate in colors that are usually forced to deal with creatures by bouncing or just being bigger... white doesn't need a humble effect, but green definitely can, and blue can use it because of the cantrip.
I've only kept it in because of the consistent good plays it sees.
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I think Edric is better than Shambleshark. Its upside is far greater. Just drawing 2-3 extra cards is a lot better than a 2/1 flash that might get bigger.
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Eidolon describes him as a 2/1, but in our play so far he is a 3/2 most of the time. I consider a 3/2 with flash for 2 mana pretty darn good for a tempo deck.
U/G/x tempo decks have a lot of depth at the 3 mana slot, both as instants and creatures. Creatures like Vendilion Clique and Wolfir Avenger allow you to hold up countermagic and then flash in a dude if they don't play anything worth countering, thus maximizing your mana. However, those same U/G/x decks have a TON of 2CMC counterspells, and don't have very many 2CMC creatures with flash you could consider playing to fit that role. Shambleshark, Plaxmanta, and (long shot) Spellstutter Sprite are about all I can think of that you could consider.
Ultimately, for me, it's not about what the better card is, it's about what the cube needs. I play a 450 cube, and here are the 2 drops and 3 drops in U/G that I would consider playing in a tempo deck.
2CMC (10)
Wild Mongrel
Strangleroot Geist
Tarmogoyf
Scavenging Ooze
Lotus Cobra
Mayor of Avabruck
Looter il-Kor
Phantasmal Image
Waterfront Bouncer (maybe?)
Snapcaster Mage (really doesn't count as a 2 drop)
3CMC (13)
Slaughterhorn
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Eternal Witness
Call of the Herd
AEther Adept
Vendilion Clique
Wake Thrasher
Man-o-War
Serendib Efreet
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Pestermite
Trygon Predator
Putting aside the fact that I have some questionable cards in there (Slaughterhorn, Wake Thrasher, etc.), I find that my U/G tempo decks ultimately don't need more than 3, maybe 4 three drop creatures in them, and that what they really want is an earlier board presence than that. I don't need to use the U/G guild section to provide 3 drops for that deck. There are tons of good ones. However, the deck wants MORE 2 drops than three drops, and I find that in most drafts I end up trimming the top end of my tempo decks and playing every low CMC card I was able to draft. As a result, I'm playing a card like Shambleshark, and my tempo decks are better decks overall, even though Edric might be an abstractly more powerful card.
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Is he really a 3/2 with Flash? It seems that the Flash and Evolve play somewhat at odds with each other: if you are playing him as a surprise blocker you are unlikely to be able to grow him with the evolve.
I'd be inclined to address the lack of 2-drops in my monocoloured sections rather than play a rather borderline card in my multicolour section.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I don't think he's being played as a surprise blocker, I think he's being played on the end-step as a surprise attacker the next turn, which, in that case he can be read as UG for a 3/2 haste as long as you're on curve, which is pretty great when you are, but still a turn 2 drop with 2 power that evades sorcery speed removal before his first attack if you can't trigger evolve. I am honestly ok with either of those outcomes if I'm playing U/G/x tempo.
W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Gatecrash didn't quite give me what I wanted to do with the guild, but I'm going to try a few different things with it. Right now I'm trying out Predator, Simic Charm, Master Biomancer, Mystic Snake, Zegana and Zameck Guildmage (huge multicolor section, I know), trying to see if some sort of midrangey deck will see play. I'm hoping once Dragon's Maze comes out there will be one or two more aggressively costed Simic cards that will allow me to try out an agro-tempo deck as well, with Edric, Predator, Shambleshark and possibly Biomass Mutation (though I don't expect much from Biomass). I think smoothing out this guild and giving it some real identity is going to be my major cube project for the next few months though. I'll record all of my observations and maybe do a full write up on it after I'm done if anyone is interested.
W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Then the top 8 gets rounded out by these for me (in no particular order):
Progenitor Mimic is a personal favourite and can create some fun plays. Only problem is it's susceptibility to removal.
Snakeform has been okay in the past but usually seems to be lacking.