Stroke of Genius has a much easier casting cost, and it can be played in 4x as many decks. And it was bad.
The casting cost of Revalation is really a non-issue; the WU/X control decks are going to have mana-fixing, and probably a bunch of mana-rocks to make it go a bit faster.
And yes, Stroke of Genius only does 1/2 of what this card does. That is a poor comparison, and a surprising one from someone like yourself who usually gives solid, well-thought out evaluations.
I am not really anti life gain, but gaining three or four life in the late game in return for playing a card which is almost unusable against aggro seems superfluous. My control decks want life gain strapped to cheap cards and effects, because that's when it matters. If my UW control deck has assembled seven mana against a red aggro deck without dying, this card probably isn't going to be the difference between winning and losing.
Who said that the aggro match-up is where this card is best? With a Wall of Omens or something similar, it's not difficult to push the aggro-matchup past turn 4-5 anyways, when this card can turn the game around for you easily. Against a control deck, you can just play it when they tap out for something and drown them in card advantage. Like I said before, it hasn't seen play in my cube just yet (being in for 1-2 drafts), but it's not difficult to see its applications.
The casting cost of Revalation is really a non-issue; the WU/X control decks are going to have mana-fixing, and probably a bunch of mana-rocks to make it go a bit faster.
The casting cost isn't a non-issue. Sure, in WU decks, it's just as easy to cast. But I can't play the card in UB, UR or UG decks. So of course it's an issue.
And yes, Stroke of Genius only does 1/2 of what this card does. That is a poor comparison, and a surprising one from someone like yourself who usually gives solid, well-thought out evaluations.
What? The card draw isn't remotely as relevant as the life gain. Surely gaining X3 life doesn't make up half of this card's value. The reason why the card gets played is to draw cards. Life gain matters a lot with cards that are played on-curve, and in matchups where it's relevant. Against aggro, the lifegain is too slow. And against control, it's not nearly as valuable. The comparison to Stroke is perfectly apt, because the main function of the card remains the same.
Who said that the aggro match-up is where this card is best? With a Wall of Omens or something similar, it's not difficult to push the aggro-matchup past turn 4-5 anyways, when this card can turn the game around for you easily. Against a control deck, you can just play it when they tap out for something and drown them in card advantage. Like I said before, it hasn't seen play in my cube just yet (being in for 1-2 drafts), but it's not difficult to see its applications.
It's a good card for the control mirror, but so is Stroke. It's more or less the same card in the control mirror actually, except I sacrifice the ability to play it in 3/4 of my 2-color decks, and lose all of the splasability that made Stroke even moderately worth considering ...to gain some life in the late game.
Who said that the aggro match-up is where this card is best? With a Wall of Omens or something similar, it's not difficult to push the aggro-matchup past turn 4-5 anyways, when this card can turn the game around for you easily. Against a control deck, you can just play it when they tap out for something and drown them in card advantage. Like I said before, it hasn't seen play in my cube just yet (being in for 1-2 drafts), but it's not difficult to see its applications.
Well, since the lifegain is "what sets this card apart", I assumed that was where the value was. Otherwise you are playing an overcosted Opportunity. Late game lifegain isn't a great source of value, and never has been to my knowledge.
The casting cost isn't a non-issue. Sure, in WU decks, it's just as easy to cast. But I can't play the card in UB, UR or UG decks. So of course it's an issue.
It's not really an issue, though. Stroke and Revalation are not the same card; one is a very splashable card draw spell, while one is a WU card draw/life gain spell. What you give up in splashability, you get back in lifegain/additional utility from the card. That's why I didn't like the comparison at all.
What? The card draw isn't remotely as relevant as the life gain. Surely gaining X3 life doesn't make up half of this card's value. The reason why the card gets played is to draw cards. Life gain matters a lot with cards that are played on-curve, and in matchups where it's relevant. Against aggro, the lifegain is too slow. And against control, it's not nearly as valuable. The comparison to Stroke is perfectly apt, because the main function of the card remains the same.
I assume you mean the life gain isn't remotely as relevant as the card draw? And I would argue that the lifegain is a big part of why the card is good (when I have actual play experience with it, I'll have more to say about this). I would argue with all of the fast mana in cube (whether it be Mana Vault or Mind Stone/Signets), the lifegain is quite relevant against all but the fastest mono-red decks. And against mid-range strategies, 4-6 life can be at least an extra turn, not to mention the card advantage.
I'm not saying it's irrelevant. Simply that gaining 4 life on turn 7 doesn't make an infinitely harder to cast Stroke of Genius a cube bomb. The much more limited playability of the card I would imagine is a much bigger issue.
I'm not saying it's irrelevant. Simply that gaining 4 life on turn 7 doesn't make an infinitely harder to cast Stroke of Genius a cube bomb. The much more limited playability of the card I would imagine is a much bigger issue.
I think on turn 7 most decks running the card are gaining 5 or 6.
And I'm certainly not calling it a cube bomb, but I cut Grand Arbiter for it and I think that was a correct choice. Also, this type of effect hasn't seen a cubeworthy card just yet, and I think this one is probably the one that pushes in.
And every argument you are making against this card are the same arguments I make against Absorb vs. Cancel... that's interesting to me.
I think on turn 7 most decks running the card are gaining 5 or 6.
On turn seven these decks are averaging 8 or 9 mana? Control decks with a lot of land and mana rocks are often lucky to average seven mana on turn seven, even before factoring in aggro decks blowing up your lands and mana rocks.
And I'm certainly not calling it a cube bomb, but I cut Grand Arbiter for it and I think that was a correct choice. Also, this type of effect hasn't seen a cubeworthy card just yet, and I think this one is probably the one that pushes in.
I think Stroke is closer to being cubeable than this is, for all the reasons I mentioned above.
What are current opinions on this card? I'm thinking of testing it in the Wall of Denial Azorius slot. It was always a big hit in the MTGO Cube and obviously it had a big influence on Standard. Both of those environments are different than my own cube environment, but the card called some attention to itself. I'm just curious as to what your own opinions are? Where does this card fall on the top ten Azorius list?
I'd have trouble making this my 5th Azorius slot. Better yet the 3rd one. It's a fine card, but I think WU has better options until you're looking for a 6th or 7th card.
For what it's worth, I have six slots. At 555 cards I think five is perfect, but my group enjoys the multicolor cards so we include an extra one in each guild, plus one for each of the five shards. My current Azorius looks like this, which is why I was thinking Wall of Denial would be my cut to test Revelation.
Detention Sphere
Geist of Saint Traft
Momentary Blink
Supreme Verdict
Venser, the Sojourner
Wall of Denial
I think I'd keep Blink because we love the archetype that wants Blink so much. Wall of Denial, while obviously a really good control card, is kind of boring. I think Revelation replaces Wall in the control slot pretty well.
I cut Wall of Denial for being too dull. In your cube I'd certainly play Revelation over it. There are other cards I might test first, though, like Lavinia of the Tenth.
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I like Sphinx's Revelations more than Blink, Venser and Wall. It's just what I want to be doing with big U/W control decks. However, there are a good many cards in front of it, and I would personally re-add Judge's Familiar first, who was a really good tempo creature for a lot of different decks.
Other than Detention Sphere, I don't consider any of the U/W cards a must-cube (aside from the ridiculous Celestial Colonnade). Some people don't want an aggro creature in that combination, although we love Geist. I'd like to see a really good U/W God to shake things up a bit.
I'm running Revelation in my 540 (ish) cube, and U/W would need some serious heavy hitters printed in order for me to even consider cutting it. The life gain is extremely relevant, and makes me dislike the straight-up comparison to Stroke of Genius, which I cut from my cube. I simply see it as a different card, and a better card.
I've been very impressed with Revelation since I picked a foil one up months ago. It fits perfectly into the typical UW control decks, and it is much more exciting than Absorb (which it replaced).
We actually just cut it solely because it was kind of boring in an archetype that already had tons of boring cards. I would mostly agree with LucidVision's ranking of the cards in the guild, but in my cube that only plays 4 cards per guild, we're playing Venser and not Sphinx's Revelation. My cube really likes blinky decks and Venser supports those beautifully.
It's really good though, and way better than absorb.
I'm coming back to Sphinx's revelation, primarily because its traditions 3-drops Geist/ Spell Queller/ Reflector Mage all have better options in other colors, and Detention sphere is becoming irrelevant with all the white 3 cmc removal.
This also feels like a nice 1-off to help UW take advantage of Lotus/ Vault it might have picked up.
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The casting cost of Revalation is really a non-issue; the WU/X control decks are going to have mana-fixing, and probably a bunch of mana-rocks to make it go a bit faster.
And yes, Stroke of Genius only does 1/2 of what this card does. That is a poor comparison, and a surprising one from someone like yourself who usually gives solid, well-thought out evaluations.
Who said that the aggro match-up is where this card is best? With a Wall of Omens or something similar, it's not difficult to push the aggro-matchup past turn 4-5 anyways, when this card can turn the game around for you easily. Against a control deck, you can just play it when they tap out for something and drown them in card advantage. Like I said before, it hasn't seen play in my cube just yet (being in for 1-2 drafts), but it's not difficult to see its applications.
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The casting cost isn't a non-issue. Sure, in WU decks, it's just as easy to cast. But I can't play the card in UB, UR or UG decks. So of course it's an issue.
What? The card draw isn't remotely as relevant as the life gain. Surely gaining X3 life doesn't make up half of this card's value. The reason why the card gets played is to draw cards. Life gain matters a lot with cards that are played on-curve, and in matchups where it's relevant. Against aggro, the lifegain is too slow. And against control, it's not nearly as valuable. The comparison to Stroke is perfectly apt, because the main function of the card remains the same.
It's a good card for the control mirror, but so is Stroke. It's more or less the same card in the control mirror actually, except I sacrifice the ability to play it in 3/4 of my 2-color decks, and lose all of the splasability that made Stroke even moderately worth considering ...to gain some life in the late game.
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Well, since the lifegain is "what sets this card apart", I assumed that was where the value was. Otherwise you are playing an overcosted Opportunity. Late game lifegain isn't a great source of value, and never has been to my knowledge.
It's not really an issue, though. Stroke and Revalation are not the same card; one is a very splashable card draw spell, while one is a WU card draw/life gain spell. What you give up in splashability, you get back in lifegain/additional utility from the card. That's why I didn't like the comparison at all.
I assume you mean the life gain isn't remotely as relevant as the card draw? And I would argue that the lifegain is a big part of why the card is good (when I have actual play experience with it, I'll have more to say about this). I would argue with all of the fast mana in cube (whether it be Mana Vault or Mind Stone/Signets), the lifegain is quite relevant against all but the fastest mono-red decks. And against mid-range strategies, 4-6 life can be at least an extra turn, not to mention the card advantage.
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I think on turn 7 most decks running the card are gaining 5 or 6.
And I'm certainly not calling it a cube bomb, but I cut Grand Arbiter for it and I think that was a correct choice. Also, this type of effect hasn't seen a cubeworthy card just yet, and I think this one is probably the one that pushes in.
And every argument you are making against this card are the same arguments I make against Absorb vs. Cancel... that's interesting to me.
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On turn seven these decks are averaging 8 or 9 mana? Control decks with a lot of land and mana rocks are often lucky to average seven mana on turn seven, even before factoring in aggro decks blowing up your lands and mana rocks.
I think Stroke is closer to being cubeable than this is, for all the reasons I mentioned above.
The difference is that Absorb still impacts the game, their board development and gains life when it's relevant in the aggro matchup.
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Detention Sphere
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Other than Detention Sphere, I don't consider any of the U/W cards a must-cube (aside from the ridiculous Celestial Colonnade). Some people don't want an aggro creature in that combination, although we love Geist. I'd like to see a really good U/W God to shake things up a bit.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
For me it goes
1) Geist of st.traft
2) Sphinx's Revelation
3) Detention Sphere
4) Supreme verdict
5) Venser
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It's really good though, and way better than absorb.
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This also feels like a nice 1-off to help UW take advantage of Lotus/ Vault it might have picked up.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
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