MTG Salvation

Burning-Tree Shaman



I really like this card, a 3/4 for 1RG seems pretty good, also seems like a good ability for a RG aggro deck staring down a planeswalker or two (possibly allowing the player to ignore the planeswalker and just aim for the player, that is the best case scenerio though)

I currently have him in the #4 spot of my cube (360 Modern, list will be posted tomorrow)

I didn't see much discussion (or a SCD thread) about this card so I figured one of these threads would be the way to go.

I agree. I think he's a solid 3-drop, especially since red and green don't have many true beaters in the 3cc slot. When I expended my cube to be big enough where I might want to include him, I had Flinthoof Boar as an option, which I like quite a bit more. If I saw this card going around in someone else's cube (especially a modern-face one), I'd snag it up and play it without feeling the least bit bad.

I've liked Burning-Pee Shaman quite a bit over the years. Good body for the cost, a relevant ability for aggressive decks, and very good against some cards that are very good against you (like Umezawa's Jitte).

-AA

I'm glad this guy was brought up again. He was in my RG section in the first iteration of my cube, but then he got axed for Huntmaster of the Fells. Now whenever I look through my on-deck binder I really long to put him back in. I think if my testing of Domri Rade falls flat then I might look to call him up from the minors. If not then I might swap it for Stormbind, which hasn't been played much recently.

I like him a lot because the 3 drop beater options in R and G are very sparse. I opted for Boggart Ram-Gang as Gruul #4 for the moment because it's a hybrid and thus a little more flexible, but I could see running the BTS again which was in my cube for ages.

He was in my first iteration too. Only now that I have so many planeswalkers am I realizing that he could be good again. And now that we have seen what gatecrash has to offer gruul, the three drop slot is calling again. I dropped the Boar to try out Radi, but if radi fails I will try this guy next. I think the angry pig is better, but is well underrated here.

This guy's a house. Great against equipment, great against planeswalkers, great as a 3/4 for 3 that beats face.

-rexx

On the other hand, he's bad with your own equipment and walkers, asking you to sacrifice two of the most powerful card types in cube for the chance at a few extra pings. He's even more of a double-edged sword now than he was when printed because of the universal value in those types of cards and the rise of aggro. I'm likely to have just as many activated abilities in my deck as my opponent, and in several races, this drawback has proven fatal to Shaman's controller.

If your cube environment features a lot of control decks, Burning-Tree Shaman is a crushingly good card. Against decks where your life total matters and the opponent can put on as much pressure as you, it loses a lot of its value. Maybe the same argument could be made for something like Sulfuric Vortex, but that's not really an argument I'm gonna defend - just suggesting a possible connection

Ya but at least the damage to you can't be redirected to your walker to kill it.

BTS is actually pretty awesome vs. Jitte, as they take one every time they remove a counter.

-AA

Yeah, on Thursday we cubed and the player who first picked a Jitte said that he just can't play it when the opponent has this guy on the board - it's just not worth it-that extra damage on top of what R/G beatdown does...I think that's pretty good.

-rexx

Quote from Toad

At worst your opponent will take 4 to kill the BTS and then continue to destroy your board with Jitte. Snuff Out and Dismember have shown us that losing 4 to kill a creature for free is not a bad deal. BTS is not a good solution to Jitte unless opponent is already below 4 life.

Don't forget about the 1 you take in order to equip it, so you're up to 5 damage it's dealing. Also, to ensure gaining counters on the Jitte you'd have to be attacking as well, so that should allow the BTS to get at least one attack in on you as well, so you're either blocking a 3/4 and probably losing a creature or taking another 3 damage and that brings the total to 8. I don't think Snuff Out or Dismember would be played if they cost 8 life or 5 life and a creature.

I dunno man, I think it's great against Jitte. Outside of flat-out removal, what's better against Jitte than this guy?

-rexx

Quote from Rexx »

Outside of flat-out removal, what's better against Jitte than this guy?

Pithing Needle.

I don't think anyone is saying that BTS is a great answer to Jitte; we are saying that it happens to be pretty good vs. it, as activating it is rough with one in play.

The scenario of comparing it to Snuff Out etc. is a bit skewed, because that just assumes that the Jitte already has 4 counters on it when BTS hits play.

-AA

Quote from wtwlf123

Pithing Needle.

For what it's worth, I consider Needle naming Jitte and other cards like Faith's Fetters actual removal here, but technically, yeah, that's right.

-rexx

Ya, I don't think they're saying that BTS is an "answer" to Jitte, only that its better against it than another random 3-drop would be that doesn't interact with it at all would be.

Necroing this old thread. What do you guys think of shaman in modern cube area?

I think for this kind of effect I prefer Harsh Mentor. It hits less targets, but the only relevant one is planeswalkers. 2 Damage is a lot more than one when it comes to taxing someones activated abilities though so I'm happy with the trade off of triggering on walkers vs. extra damage. Hitting you for your own abilities kinda sucks, where as mentor only hits opponents.

All in all I would take Harsh Mentor over it unless you really value the larger body or want to double up on the effect.

Quote from steve_man »

Gruul is one of the harder guilds to break into : /

You think? Except for all the 4cc ones, we found the guild pretty meh.

I think Atarka is probably the best card in the guild for a cube that does not support green aggro.

Quote from Metamind »

I think Atarka is probably the best card in the guild for a cube that does not support green aggro.

Agree, but I don't think it's by a ton. Even without green aggro, BBE is pretty nice, though Atarka has been absolutely crushing it in any deck that can get him onto the board.

I love old school cards and tried Burning-Tree Shaman not too long ago. For me, it brings back memories of my most active days in the game and the art on the card is lovely. Sadly, even in my lower powered lists this card is not doing enough to justify a gold slot IMO. It's probably worse in my cubes in that I don't run walkers or a whole lot of equipment (so the damage trigger is weaker for me). It's a tad slow in aggro (needs haste) and a tad under sized for midrange.

If you are looking for more aggro support in Gruul, Boggart Ram-Gang is probably better. Or Kird Ape if you really want to do all in. BloodBraid Elf I'd run in pretty much any list whether you supported green aggro or not (assuming you can support the power level the card brings). It's a tremendous tempo card that is just as cool in a rampy sort of elf build as it is in straight aggro. Cascade is a pretty busted mechanic.

I re-added it a while ago, and it's been good. I like it in decks that are either heavier red or have several burn spells to break the symmetry. He's usually worth a free 3-4 damage per game, sometimes more depending on your opponent's cards. He's not for every cube, but he's fun and pretty darn good, too.