I've added it to my cube but haven't had a chance to test it yet. I'm a fan of build around me cards in cube because it keeps things new and interesting. I also like that it gives control decks a reason to run green besides ramp.
Because the effect is symmetrical, how do cube decks make this work? Play one or two fatties total? It's likely the opponent will have more creatures in play than you in that case, but what do you do when you never draw the oath? Seems like you have a bad green control deck then. I think there are other 2 mana green enchantments that you'd rather have in your cube.
Obviously I still need to test it but the idea wasn't to build green based control decks. More that this could slot into control decks splashing green for ramp/fixing or maybe the super-ramp deck that devotes a lot of slots to going big. If you never draw oath you're still ramping into fatties.
Obviously I still need to test it but the idea wasn't to build green based control decks. More that this could slot into control decks splashing green for ramp/fixing or maybe the super-ramp deck that devotes a lot of slots to going big. If you never draw oath you're still ramping into fatties.
Building a green ramp deck with a low creature count is going to be a neat trick. Even if you do, it will probably be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
We tried it back in the day at 540. The only time it was good was in 4 or 5 color control with only a few finishers and lots of removal.
It was routinely last picked and only showed up in 4c control about 25% of the time. Things could have changed, but I doubt it has very much. Moreover, you can't use some fatties (Grave Titan, Myr Battlesphere, etc) without Oath actually hurting you. Chances are your opponent is just going to chump your dude until he can start using Oath to get his own guys out.
The problem with it is it's a very build-around-me card that is only good in one strategy, meaning you pretty much have to get this first pack. If you get it 2nd or 3rd there's almost assuredly no chance anyone at the table is going to play this, and there really isn't much chance even if it's in the first pack.
Building a green ramp deck with a low creature count is going to be a neat trick. Even if you do, it will probably be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I don't know maybe I'm doing it wrong. My wildfire type decks generally aren't overflowing with creatures though. I'll play around with this just because I do like build around me cards in my cube. Can easily understand why it'd be wrong though.
Hmm... The combo aspect: Good if you have few big creatures as opposed to many small ones. It's just bad that green decks love mana dorks, so a) you have quite a few creatures in mana dorks already and b) you might actually flip a mana dork.
The noncombo aspect: Just playing it when you're behind to generate a blocker every turn sounds like a pain to overcome for an aggro deck, but it makes eventually assembling board supremacy hard. Not sure if it's worth it.
I think we'd need to just plug it in fitting decks and see what it does.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I think it's a decent card that's designed for decks that don't play a lot of creatures or want to play the Reanimator/Sneak and Show type of game.
Much like Show and Tell or Eureka this card is symmetrical, and really wants a certain deck type to be good. So as long as you're willing to play that deck it shouldn't be a bad card.
Also, the more aggro decks and maybe mid-ranged decks there are, the better this card becomes. Like awesome, they have more 2/2s than you, but you get a 5/5 or 6/6 off of it. Then when they get their activation they get a 2/2 or 4/4 at most, while you're getting something like Griselbrand, Sundering Titan, or Pelakka Wurm.
Edit: Also doesn't mind playing next to something like Natural Order or Tinker in a lot of cases.
I think the trick is to get a critical mass of cards like Eureka, Show & Tell, Sneak Attack, Tinker, and Oath of Druids cards--in addition to tutors and the usual mana fixing--for this version of the "cheat-fatties" deck to work.
As a build-around-me card with a very specific niche, I'm fine with Oath's spot in my cube--until some more "must include" cards are printed that push out some of the oddball card choices in my cube. Oath has done work in control vs aggro, getting free dudes. It's obviously most splashy in decks that can really draft around it and/or when it serves as a companion to Tinker and Natural Order.
Also hilarious with Worldly Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Scroll Rack.
Sometimes I get tempted to stick Forbidden Orchard in just for giggles.
I like Oath of Druids a lot. you can't build a traditional oath deck with 1 to 3 creatures like you see in constructed formats but if you build a control deck with 5-7 finishers you can control the game and get your finisher online cheap, plus I have borded it into my midrange ramp decks when I play a aggro opponet and I like it there a ton.
I think the trick is to get a critical mass of cards like Eureka, Show & Tell, Sneak Attack, Tinker, and Oath of Druids cards--in addition to tutors and the usual mana fixing--for this version of the "cheat-fatties" deck to work.
None of those decks want to play a low creature count, except for Oath. It's the odd effect out. Even low creature count decks still play a fair number of utility bodies, and that really hinders Oath's ability to be successful in the cube.
There isn't an existing decktype we play in the cube that could conform to Oath's requirements without severely hindering the deck it's in.
Oath is very powerful, and I've seen it being used to great effect. I initially added the card in my Cube as an aggro deterrent, but then people started to break it in half. Any sort of library manipulation, such as Top, Jace, Sylvan Library or Worldly Tutor and suddenly you're Oathing into things like Ulamog or Sundering Titan. It's certainly not an easy card to play, but that I think adds to the fun of the card, and it adequately rewards those who take up the challenge.
If anyone is interested in running storm with green for land doublers (Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, Heartbeat of Spring, Dictate of Karamatra), Oath of Druids is a nice side-strategy to go with your main package. We don't have Forbidden Orchard in the cube and we're pretty sure we don't want to add it, although we may.
We've used it to go find Eldrazi, Palinchron, and a Myr Battlesphere so far and we've only been testing it for a week. It's only found a home in the storm deck, but it may be able to be utilized in other strategies (land-based green ramp).
I may start using more land-based ramp in green to support possible Oath decks.
EDIT: It can also combo really well with effects like Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal, if you're running some or all of those.
I am tempted to bring it in now that I am supporting so many token options. But I have been avoiding it because my green decks always have more creatures in them.
For me, as much as I like redundancy, there seem to be other options to back up tinker/sneak/Eureka that still play well with reanimator, natural order, and the mana dorks that are so good in those decks. I have been using quicksilver amulet, elvish piper, tooth and nail and the new aether searcher for those decks. Hell as long as I am trying to tutor a fatty to the top of my deck I like to play Mindshrieker. Even gamekeeper might be a choice some could try if they like oath.
Now if I saw this in someone else's cube I would probably draft it highly because it is a fun build around me card.I can imagine a storm deck featuring guttersnipe and talrand as the only creatures being kind of sweet. But I am the only one in my playgroup who enjoys super low/no creature decks.
I'm not playing with Guttersnipe or Talrand right now. I'd like to test them both out, I'm gonna ask my playgroup about them tonight. We still need to get more testing in with some other storm cards that I think have higher potential, so we'll see there.
Oath has been really bonkers for us in storm though. We put it in expecting someone to take a very high tutor-heavy deck with little to no creatures -- and we didn't even think of storm, where that is exactly what it is. It's been fantastic for us.
I like it enough for my 630 - well, I don't usually build around it but there enough people playing my Cube who like it and I do like to hear of those crazy times where player A plays a land and a 1-drop, player 2 drops a Mox, Forest, and Oath and gets something like a turn 2 Akroma. It's tough to build around it - especially since you can't really tutor for it in green, but while high variance it still has super high power. I also like that it allows for a green deck that's not necessarily a deck that goes for a high creature count, and I like to make some more unpredictable deck types to come out from time to time. All in all, not going to cut it soon.
I know I posted here a few months ago, but I'd like to expand a bit on what Oath has been doing for us lately.
Since we added Oath of Druids, we've seen a lot of decks take advantage of it.
I've seen Reanimation-themed decks use Oath to get fatties into play even quicker than they normally would against aggressive strategies. Obviously deck construction comes into play here and you are deincentivized from playing Looter Il-Kor, Oona's Prowler, etc, but when it works, it works very well.
I've seen Oath of Druids used in a deck that has large win conditions, but very few creatures otherwise. Blue control decks that kill with 6cmc+ guys will sometimes splash Oath of Druids to have an easy solution to aggressive or mid-range decks.
I've seen Oath of Druids do some absolutely bonkers things in Storm where you play it on turn 2 and your opponent doesn't even drop a creature until turn 4 or 5, essentially giving you multiple turns off your clock. We sometimes play a reanimator or ramp substrategy in Storm, so occasionally it can get something like an Emrakul, Sun Titan, or Consecrated Sphinx into play for two mana.
I've also seen the Oath deck happen. Oath needs to get drafted very early, but it's entirely possible to have no low mana creatures, and have land-based ramp spells, artifact mana, mana doublers like Mirari's Wake, Wild Growths, and fatties. Black tutors and Enlightened Tutor can help get the Oath into your hand and onto the battlefield quickly.
I would definitely recommend most 'normal' cubes to give the card another shot. It's been really solid over here.
How good has this card been in your cube? Is it on the cusp of being cut or is it worthy of a slot? It looks like it would be fun in a few different decks.
Having Planeswalker Control turn into a successful archetype has helped Oath of Druids. 'Walkers help you increase your threat density without adding in "whiffs" for Oath. It requires some build-around, but it's a much better cube card now than it was years ago, because the quality of the targets and the number of decks it can go in have both increased.
( sorry cant get an image ATM )
I remember this cards brokenness from my beginner days of Magic.
Has anyone ever tried it in cube?
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Building a green ramp deck with a low creature count is going to be a neat trick. Even if you do, it will probably be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It was routinely last picked and only showed up in 4c control about 25% of the time. Things could have changed, but I doubt it has very much. Moreover, you can't use some fatties (Grave Titan, Myr Battlesphere, etc) without Oath actually hurting you. Chances are your opponent is just going to chump your dude until he can start using Oath to get his own guys out.
The problem with it is it's a very build-around-me card that is only good in one strategy, meaning you pretty much have to get this first pack. If you get it 2nd or 3rd there's almost assuredly no chance anyone at the table is going to play this, and there really isn't much chance even if it's in the first pack.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
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I don't know maybe I'm doing it wrong. My wildfire type decks generally aren't overflowing with creatures though. I'll play around with this just because I do like build around me cards in my cube. Can easily understand why it'd be wrong though.
The noncombo aspect: Just playing it when you're behind to generate a blocker every turn sounds like a pain to overcome for an aggro deck, but it makes eventually assembling board supremacy hard. Not sure if it's worth it.
I think we'd need to just plug it in fitting decks and see what it does.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Much like Show and Tell or Eureka this card is symmetrical, and really wants a certain deck type to be good. So as long as you're willing to play that deck it shouldn't be a bad card.
Also, the more aggro decks and maybe mid-ranged decks there are, the better this card becomes. Like awesome, they have more 2/2s than you, but you get a 5/5 or 6/6 off of it. Then when they get their activation they get a 2/2 or 4/4 at most, while you're getting something like Griselbrand, Sundering Titan, or Pelakka Wurm.
Edit: Also doesn't mind playing next to something like Natural Order or Tinker in a lot of cases.
Also hilarious with Worldly Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Scroll Rack.
Sometimes I get tempted to stick Forbidden Orchard in just for giggles.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=221863
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None of those decks want to play a low creature count, except for Oath. It's the odd effect out. Even low creature count decks still play a fair number of utility bodies, and that really hinders Oath's ability to be successful in the cube.
There isn't an existing decktype we play in the cube that could conform to Oath's requirements without severely hindering the deck it's in.
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We've used it to go find Eldrazi, Palinchron, and a Myr Battlesphere so far and we've only been testing it for a week. It's only found a home in the storm deck, but it may be able to be utilized in other strategies (land-based green ramp).
I may start using more land-based ramp in green to support possible Oath decks.
My cube for reference.
EDIT: It can also combo really well with effects like Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal, if you're running some or all of those.
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For me, as much as I like redundancy, there seem to be other options to back up tinker/sneak/Eureka that still play well with reanimator, natural order, and the mana dorks that are so good in those decks. I have been using quicksilver amulet, elvish piper, tooth and nail and the new aether searcher for those decks. Hell as long as I am trying to tutor a fatty to the top of my deck I like to play Mindshrieker. Even gamekeeper might be a choice some could try if they like oath.
Now if I saw this in someone else's cube I would probably draft it highly because it is a fun build around me card.I can imagine a storm deck featuring guttersnipe and talrand as the only creatures being kind of sweet. But I am the only one in my playgroup who enjoys super low/no creature decks.
Oath has been really bonkers for us in storm though. We put it in expecting someone to take a very high tutor-heavy deck with little to no creatures -- and we didn't even think of storm, where that is exactly what it is. It's been fantastic for us.
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Since we added Oath of Druids, we've seen a lot of decks take advantage of it.
I've seen Reanimation-themed decks use Oath to get fatties into play even quicker than they normally would against aggressive strategies. Obviously deck construction comes into play here and you are deincentivized from playing Looter Il-Kor, Oona's Prowler, etc, but when it works, it works very well.
I've seen Oath of Druids used in a deck that has large win conditions, but very few creatures otherwise. Blue control decks that kill with 6cmc+ guys will sometimes splash Oath of Druids to have an easy solution to aggressive or mid-range decks.
I've seen Oath of Druids do some absolutely bonkers things in Storm where you play it on turn 2 and your opponent doesn't even drop a creature until turn 4 or 5, essentially giving you multiple turns off your clock. We sometimes play a reanimator or ramp substrategy in Storm, so occasionally it can get something like an Emrakul, Sun Titan, or Consecrated Sphinx into play for two mana.
I've also seen the Oath deck happen. Oath needs to get drafted very early, but it's entirely possible to have no low mana creatures, and have land-based ramp spells, artifact mana, mana doublers like Mirari's Wake, Wild Growths, and fatties. Black tutors and Enlightened Tutor can help get the Oath into your hand and onto the battlefield quickly.
I would definitely recommend most 'normal' cubes to give the card another shot. It's been really solid over here.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!