So it's been discussed in random threads, and many people like this card for their cubes. It's an aggro beater, recursive threat, sacrifice fodder, stax and pox support. I am curious to know how many zombies are needed to support this card.
How many zombies do you need in your deck to be able to reliably recast him?
In turn, how many zombies do you need in your cube or what percentage of your creatures need to be a zombie (black or multicolor) for this to be effective?
In turn, how many zombies do you need in your cube or what percentage of your creatures need to be a zombie (black or multicolor) for this to be effective?
You need at least zero other zombies in your cube to run him.
He's a fairly strong card even without Zombie support. Fortunately, black Aggro has a ton of Zombies to support him. Wtwlf's 540 cube runs the following:
He doesn't need any other Zombies to be a good aggro one drop.
Having some other zombies in your deck makes him useful for decks that normally wouldn't play a 2/1 for B. Recurring him with Braids, Pox, Smokestack and the like raises his value a lot. That makes him a lot less narrow and a lot more interesting for cube. Every draft you can find new synergies for Gravecrawler.
For how many zombies you need, it depends on what you want to do with it. Do you have Entomb, tutors,... Every deck is a bit different in this respect.
Also note this thread about black zombie tribal.
Without other zombies he's just a 2/1 that can't block for B, which is not particularly great even in Bx aggro, though there are definitely worse cards that see play.
Also note this thread about black zombie tribal.
Without other zombies he's just a 2/1 that can't block for B, which is not particularly great even in Bx aggro, though there are definitely worse cards that see play.
Even if wizards print 2/1 can't block for B, I think I'll still try to play it in my 360 cube. 2/1 1 drop are always welcome.
Also note this thread about black zombie tribal.
Without other zombies he's just a 2/1 that can't block for B, which is not particularly great even in Bx aggro, though there are definitely worse cards that see play.
If they printed a black Jungle Lion, I'd cube it in a heartbeat. And Gravecrawler is strictly better than that.
Now, assume you don't run black aggro at all in your cube (so you don't have all the 1 drop zombies), but you want to have gravecrawler for all the other reasons, how many zombies do you think are needed? Reliably = let's say by turn 6 you should be able to start recasting him.
I run 8 other zombie related cards in my cube and I find that decks only get 1 or 2 other zombies due to the size and variance of my cube. At this point, gravecrawler isn't worthwhile because decks won't be able to get value out of him. If you're not running black aggro and you're can't get the other benefits out of him because of the lack of zombie support, then is there a point to running this guy at all?
Maybe I need closer to 10 or 12 zombies total in my creature pool so that there is a better chance at being able to recast him, and I'm wondering if someone has ever run the numbers.
I'm not sure I would run him in a 600 card cube that doesn't support black aggro. Setting up the sac outlet + Gravecrawler + living zombie seems like a lot of trouble for something a bunch of other cards can provide.
In a cube that is that big, can I ask why are you not supporting black aggro? I run 500, and it is a great archetype.
Ive been trying Rotlung Reanimator recently and he hasnt been bad. Hes a great speed bump against the aggro decks and works well in the grindy Pox decks, and works well with Attrition.
I'm not sure I would run him in a 600 card cube that doesn't support black aggro. Setting up the sac outlet + Gravecrawler + living zombie seems like a lot of trouble for something a bunch of other cards can provide.
In a cube that is that big, can I ask why are you not supporting black aggro? I run 500, and it is a great archetype.
Thanks, this is what I was trying to get recognized.
The choice to not run black aggro was to give black more focus on other identities. I think around my cube size, supporting aggro requires a higher number of early drops to keep the percetange of early drops close to optimal, and that number I was unhappy with maintaining since it came at the expense of other fun cards. I've and heard that black is considered the "Weakest" color in cubes, and being pulled into many archetypes was a reason. A few people posted about cutting aggro altogether in the [arche] monoblack thread and I went with it. So far, no one has missed it and no one has commented that black is weak in my particular cube makeup.
I'll have to reconsider gravecrawler then for the recursive setup. Bloodghast performs a similar function and it easier to trigger. Reassembling skeleton has had some talk and I know the pox people have been happy with Nether Spirit/Shadow. Maybe I'll go that way with the card.
Anyways, I hope this has sparked some thoughtful analysis.
I think I would still play the 2/2 for B even if not supporting mono black aggro. There is a difference in not going all out aggro in black with a lot of double black casting costs and redunduncy in the two drop section, and not including low cost aggresive cards at all.
I play these cards in other decks as well, but that could be a deck building preference.
Zombie Infestation
Not terrible and could be run in a larger cube. It combos pretty nicely with Gravecrawler.
I wouldn't say it combos very well with Gravecrawler, as you have to draw Gravecrawler after you play Zombie Infestation (or not play it on turn 1) in order to get full value off of discarding it.
I wouldn't ever consider Zombie Infestation below 900 cards, and I'm not sure I would play it at 900 either.
Is he good enough without a critical mass of zombies?
a black jungle lion is an instant 360 staple for anyone supporting aggro. if you run a dragon cube you could pass on the guy but i can't understand excluding him if you want to balance aggro/control/midrange.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
So it's been discussed in random threads, and many people like this card for their cubes. It's an aggro beater, recursive threat, sacrifice fodder, stax and pox support. I am curious to know how many zombies are needed to support this card.
How many zombies do you need in your deck to be able to reliably recast him?
In turn, how many zombies do you need in your cube or what percentage of your creatures need to be a zombie (black or multicolor) for this to be effective?
360 Uncommons only Cube!
You need at least zero other zombies in your cube to run him.
QFT.
Cheers,
rant
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Having some other zombies in your deck makes him useful for decks that normally wouldn't play a 2/1 for B. Recurring him with Braids, Pox, Smokestack and the like raises his value a lot. That makes him a lot less narrow and a lot more interesting for cube. Every draft you can find new synergies for Gravecrawler.
For how many zombies you need, it depends on what you want to do with it. Do you have Entomb, tutors,... Every deck is a bit different in this respect.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Without other zombies he's just a 2/1 that can't block for B, which is not particularly great even in Bx aggro, though there are definitely worse cards that see play.
Even if wizards print 2/1 can't block for B, I think I'll still try to play it in my 360 cube. 2/1 1 drop are always welcome.
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If they printed a black Jungle Lion, I'd cube it in a heartbeat. And Gravecrawler is strictly better than that.
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Now, assume you don't run black aggro at all in your cube (so you don't have all the 1 drop zombies), but you want to have gravecrawler for all the other reasons, how many zombies do you think are needed? Reliably = let's say by turn 6 you should be able to start recasting him.
I run 8 other zombie related cards in my cube and I find that decks only get 1 or 2 other zombies due to the size and variance of my cube. At this point, gravecrawler isn't worthwhile because decks won't be able to get value out of him. If you're not running black aggro and you're can't get the other benefits out of him because of the lack of zombie support, then is there a point to running this guy at all?
Maybe I need closer to 10 or 12 zombies total in my creature pool so that there is a better chance at being able to recast him, and I'm wondering if someone has ever run the numbers.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
In a cube that is that big, can I ask why are you not supporting black aggro? I run 500, and it is a great archetype.
I'll check to see what non-aggro zombies there are cubeworthy (Grave Titan,) but unsure if there are many. [Will edit the post.]
Butcher Ghoul
Cabal Interrogator
Cemetery Reaper
Fleshbag Marauder
Graveborn Muse
Korlash (but I wouldn't run that)
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Nightscape Familiar/Nightscape Battlemage (wouldn't really run those either)
Phyrexian Crusader (lol no)
Putrid Imp
Rotlung Reanimator (eeeh)
Skinrender
Skinthinner (way too pricey nowadays, even for pauper)
Stromgald Crusader (although wouldn't run without aggro support)
Twisted Abomination
Undead Gladiator
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Havengul Lich
Glissa, the Traitor
Ive been trying Rotlung Reanimator recently and he hasnt been bad. Hes a great speed bump against the aggro decks and works well in the grindy Pox decks, and works well with Attrition.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Those are in most cubes.
Zombie Infestation
Not terrible and could be run in a larger cube. It combos pretty nicely with Gravecrawler.
Cheers,
rant
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Thanks, this is what I was trying to get recognized.
The choice to not run black aggro was to give black more focus on other identities. I think around my cube size, supporting aggro requires a higher number of early drops to keep the percetange of early drops close to optimal, and that number I was unhappy with maintaining since it came at the expense of other fun cards. I've and heard that black is considered the "Weakest" color in cubes, and being pulled into many archetypes was a reason. A few people posted about cutting aggro altogether in the [arche] monoblack thread and I went with it. So far, no one has missed it and no one has commented that black is weak in my particular cube makeup.
I'll have to reconsider gravecrawler then for the recursive setup. Bloodghast performs a similar function and it easier to trigger. Reassembling skeleton has had some talk and I know the pox people have been happy with Nether Spirit/Shadow. Maybe I'll go that way with the card.
Anyways, I hope this has sparked some thoughtful analysis.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
I play these cards in other decks as well, but that could be a deck building preference.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
I wouldn't say it combos very well with Gravecrawler, as you have to draw Gravecrawler after you play Zombie Infestation (or not play it on turn 1) in order to get full value off of discarding it.
I wouldn't ever consider Zombie Infestation below 900 cards, and I'm not sure I would play it at 900 either.
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Hm, that's disappointing. a quick count shows ~25% of your black creatures are zombies too. do you know why it's only 35%?
360 Uncommons only Cube!
That's strange, but it's probably just bad luck. It's tough to imagine an aggro deck that supports black one drops choosing not to run him.
Is he good enough without a critical mass of zombies?
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a black jungle lion is an instant 360 staple for anyone supporting aggro. if you run a dragon cube you could pass on the guy but i can't understand excluding him if you want to balance aggro/control/midrange.
It's a staple 1-drop that should be in every cube.
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