I like Genesis for the repeatedly value he brings, but Wolfir Silverheart is way above him in my opinion. He's great in a aggro deck where you can combine the P/T boost he brings to a evasive treat like one of the Soltari dudes or a Flying/Intimidate creature. However, my cube does have space for both, so I don't have to be asking myself this though question
Always thought silverheart is underrated in these forums,
Unopposed it's the biggest damage dealing 5 drop there is. The "hasted" effect is relevant as well.
I'd put him as the best or second best of the tier 2 5 drops but there isn't much difference between them in power level
tier 1
Thragtusk
Deranged hermit
tier 2
Wickerborough elder (maybe 4 drop)
Acidic slime
Wolfir silverheart
Titania (worse avg case scenario but higher upside)
Kalonian Hydra
Whisperwood elemental (the more I play with this card the better I think it is)
Think it wouldn't impact green at all if you chose any combination of the tier 2 creatures for your cube (wanting minimum 1 disenchant creature). I have my personal preference of those 5 drops, but it's clear to me there isn't a big drop in power level between any of them.
Vorapede is also really good. Instant offence and defence simultaneously, and wrath/removal resistant. I think Thragtusk is far and away the best 5 drop, but there are many legitimate choices alongside.
Also worth noting that new Surrak does make silverheart better, so if you're running new surrak and you get to resolve a silverheart and go to your attack phase it's 12 points of haste power for 5 mana, which is pretty crazy. Still don't think he's good enough for small lists, and still prefer vorapede over silverheart (in addition to all the guys lucid listed)
I've only cut Wolfir Silverheart fairly recently and I can see myself putting him back in. I like him a lot and would definitely include him over Genesis.
For us Thragtusk, Acidic Slime and Squirrelman are staples. After that it depends on personal preference and cube construction. WE run Wolfir over the Hydra. Genesis was too slow, Titania too conditional. Vorapde comes close. It is less in your face but has resilience. Garruk, Primal Hunter is another option but isn't a creature.
Wolfir just hits so hard and has immediate board impact, on offence and on defence. He has been great since his introduction.
I don't even have enough room for this guy and I have Titania and Vorapede much higher on the waiting list for whenever I decide I do want another 5 drop in green
if he has no answer in hand 99% of the time the game ends in 1/2 turns
This is true of pretty much all the non-utility (think acidic slime) green 5-drops though...
Not really. Here's a list of most top cubeable 5 drop damage.
Silverheart does 16 damage in 2 turns unopposed. 28 in 3 turns. (requires an extra creature)
Kalonian Hydra does 8 damage in 2 turns, 24 damage in 3 turns.
Titania does ~10 damage in 2 turns, ~20 damage in 3 turns. (Assuming a fetch land)
Deranged hermit does 9 in 2 turns, 18 in 3. (requires an extra 5 mana)
Whisperwood elemental does 6 in 2 turns, 14 in 3 turns.
Arbor Colossus does 6 in 2 turns, ~15 in 3 turns.
Vorapede does 5 damage in 2 turns, 10 in 3
Thragtusk does 5 in 2 turns, 10 in 3.
Of that list, only silverheart can do lethal damage in 2 turns (assuming pain from lands or some small early damage) and only a small fraction can do exactly lethal in 3 turns.
Of that list, silverheart is a bit more conditional and more things "answers" silverheart , or stalls it's damage output than most of those creatures.
But under the condition of "no-answer for" I think on average the only thing that kills more fast and consistent is kalonian hydra, and a lot of those 5 drops don't come close.
When it comes to going un-answered a turn is a world of difference in time.
Wolfir is really swingy in my experience. More so than even Hydra. And that's because a well placed piece of removal can often end up a two for one and really hose you.
Often times, Wolfir is pumping something that otherwise you wouldn't attack with. And in those cases, killing one typically turns a favorable combat situation into an unfavorable one. This is where looking at pure damage just doesn't do the comparison justice IMO. Vorapede is a really good example. It may only do 10 damage in 3 turns, but it attacks and still blocks, and (other than exile effects) when it dies you two for one your opponent and get a fatter version of it back. There are many board states where the insect is a much better card than Wolfir.
I like Wolfir a lot don't get me wrong, but there have been times when I've considered running something else just because there a plethora of interesting and powerful choices at this CC. Green does not have a shortage of amazing 5 drops, that's for sure.
I dont run Vorapede anymore because of the triple green. I like Wolfir alot, but its likely the next 5 drop to get cut when something amazing comes out.
Vorapede only downside is its CMC. Triple green is often though to cast early and doesn't fit in any other deck shell than ramp.
Other than that, he is fine. He survives to most removal (except white ones) and wraths effect. Otherwise, I like the wolf more because he fits in another kind of deck. The 5-drop green section is already filled up with a lot of midrange/control fatties and I think it deserves a more aggro oriented one. Wolfir Silverheart fit well in that role. He swing a lot a damage ETB and makes your evasive early treat become a must-anwser-now problem. Plus, like mention by Lucid, he is the highest damage dealer among them all. Also the quickest to deal it.
This. I've never been impressed with Genesis. Sooooo slow. The one thing I think it has going for it is it's good in mid ranges bad match up.
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Unopposed it's the biggest damage dealing 5 drop there is. The "hasted" effect is relevant as well.
I'd put him as the best or second best of the tier 2 5 drops but there isn't much difference between them in power level
tier 1
Thragtusk
Deranged hermit
tier 2
Wickerborough elder (maybe 4 drop)
Acidic slime
Wolfir silverheart
Titania (worse avg case scenario but higher upside)
Kalonian Hydra
Whisperwood elemental (the more I play with this card the better I think it is)
Think it wouldn't impact green at all if you chose any combination of the tier 2 creatures for your cube (wanting minimum 1 disenchant creature). I have my personal preference of those 5 drops, but it's clear to me there isn't a big drop in power level between any of them.
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Wolfir just hits so hard and has immediate board impact, on offence and on defence. He has been great since his introduction.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
This is true of pretty much all the non-utility (think acidic slime) green 5-drops though...
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Not really. Here's a list of most top cubeable 5 drop damage.
Silverheart does 16 damage in 2 turns unopposed. 28 in 3 turns. (requires an extra creature)
Kalonian Hydra does 8 damage in 2 turns, 24 damage in 3 turns.
Titania does ~10 damage in 2 turns, ~20 damage in 3 turns. (Assuming a fetch land)
Deranged hermit does 9 in 2 turns, 18 in 3. (requires an extra 5 mana)
Whisperwood elemental does 6 in 2 turns, 14 in 3 turns.
Arbor Colossus does 6 in 2 turns, ~15 in 3 turns.
Vorapede does 5 damage in 2 turns, 10 in 3
Thragtusk does 5 in 2 turns, 10 in 3.
Of that list, only silverheart can do lethal damage in 2 turns (assuming pain from lands or some small early damage) and only a small fraction can do exactly lethal in 3 turns.
Of that list, silverheart is a bit more conditional and more things "answers" silverheart , or stalls it's damage output than most of those creatures.
But under the condition of "no-answer for" I think on average the only thing that kills more fast and consistent is kalonian hydra, and a lot of those 5 drops don't come close.
When it comes to going un-answered a turn is a world of difference in time.
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Often times, Wolfir is pumping something that otherwise you wouldn't attack with. And in those cases, killing one typically turns a favorable combat situation into an unfavorable one. This is where looking at pure damage just doesn't do the comparison justice IMO. Vorapede is a really good example. It may only do 10 damage in 3 turns, but it attacks and still blocks, and (other than exile effects) when it dies you two for one your opponent and get a fatter version of it back. There are many board states where the insect is a much better card than Wolfir.
I like Wolfir a lot don't get me wrong, but there have been times when I've considered running something else just because there a plethora of interesting and powerful choices at this CC. Green does not have a shortage of amazing 5 drops, that's for sure.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Other than that, he is fine. He survives to most removal (except white ones) and wraths effect. Otherwise, I like the wolf more because he fits in another kind of deck. The 5-drop green section is already filled up with a lot of midrange/control fatties and I think it deserves a more aggro oriented one. Wolfir Silverheart fit well in that role. He swing a lot a damage ETB and makes your evasive early treat become a must-anwser-now problem. Plus, like mention by Lucid, he is the highest damage dealer among them all. Also the quickest to deal it.
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