MTG Salvation

I always liked the card as a mix of a bad Mana Leak and a busted Force Spike. I think it is the next best counterspell to the common played?

Three mana. Period. That's what made it unplayable when I tried it in my peasant cube. For three mana, I have Forbid and Exclude as the only counterspells because they're insanely good, plus Dismiss at four.

We played it until recently. It was good. Not as good as the two mana counters, but a lot better then you would say by looking at it.

It was cycled as a Force Spike quite often (people tap out a lot) and if you do this the card is very cubable. A Dismiss for 2U is good.

I rate it higher then Dismiss (too slow), and higher then Exclude (too conditional). If we would go up to 500-550 I would gladly try to get it back in.

It was always a card that was one of the cards we considered cutting each update, but it survived a long time because when played it never dissapointed.

I don't think it's bad. I'd play it in really big cubes.

I only just cut this in my 500 card cube. It's a fine card but getting outclassed. I'd probably bring it back if I went up to 540.

Cheers,
rant

I have to admit that I've been destroyed by runeboggle in Rav draft. This has one part of it. I can see how it's at the bottom of counterspells a list wants to run tho. I'll ask my players if they want to see it.

Quote from Trunkers

Less than 50% of cubes run Daze? I find that... incorrect.

Agreed. Even if it's only for the PWND moment that Force Spike, Mana Tithe and Daze provide, they are so cubable. We are so conditioned to use all our mana on every single turn that there's virtually always a target for them, even late. Daze being free, so your opponent being careless about countermagic, only makes it better.

Dazing Land Destruction when the opponent has plenty of mana open is a personal favorite of mine.

I like Complicate, and may find room for it at 500.

We've been running Complicate for ages, and it's been superb for us here. No particular mode is especially stellar, but the versatility of having 3 modes in one is just amazing (mana leak, runeboggle, raw cycling).

It's also pretty hilarious that it can circumvent force of will back-up on key plays.

It's never going to be the card that causes first time cubers to say "wow", but in my experience, your regulars will quickly come to appreciate and respect it.

The art perspective is weird on this card, looks like she aimed her rear at something to counter it to me. Anybody else see this, its like the olivia voldaren thing, i cant stop seeing it anymore.
the card seems pretty cool but not super special.

I like it a lot and run it at 540. I agree that it's likely better than Dismiss.

I wish it had been counter if you don't pay 4, but then again it was printed in Onslaught block.

An uncounterable runeboggle is very good, though. (They might have one of those dudes that sacks to counter). Runeboggle was nuts in RGD limited.

I have a preference for soft counters that don't have UU in their cost, but that's me.

Bumping this thread to ask if anyone had some experience with this card in cube.
I currently run Dissolve and Hinder in my cube and I feel like Complicate could replace the latter. The cycling trigger is super cool.

I like it more than both of those spells. It has a better casting cost, and is a blowout when the cycling trigger hits.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I like it more than both of those spells. It has a better casting cost, and is a blowout when the cycling trigger hits.

Cool:). What about Exclude? Is it better aswell?
And Dismiss?

I play Complicate at 460 and have for a long time. It's not always maindecked (when you also draft Force, Mana Leak, Counterspell, and Cryptic Command you are probably going to board it) but overall it's been super solid and sees plenty of play.

Yes, I also like Exclude and Dismiss more than those two spells.

I play it. It's great in tempo decks. It's not fantastic but it has its uses!

I ran Complicate for a while as a budget counterspell and it was decent. I liked it better than Exclude (too conditional) and Dismiss (too slow) It's riding the bench right now so I can test Stratus Dancer. I'm about to add Cryptic Command and Force of Will, which will probably preclude me from bringing back Complicate unless I decide I need more counterspells.

I posted a thread about Delay a while back, and there was a lot of discussion of Complicate and rankings of other second-tier counterspells you might find interesting.

Complicate is good stuff. Sometimes, you need the bad Mana Leak mode. However, when your opponent taps out and you cycle it, it's absolutely fantastic.

I would play it over Hinder and Dissolve, and also over Exclude.

I think I like exclude better, but they're pretty close.
As a aside...what exactly is going on in that card art? Montezuma's Revenge?

I noticed this back when onslaught was the newest set... but for some reason there were a couple cycling spells (unrelated artists) had some kind of "spike ball" theme going on. check out Solar Blast, Primal Boost, Death Pulse, and of course Complicate.