Just upped my cube size from 450 to 500 but I'm having complaints that the mono red deck doesn't have enough three drops and therefore doesn't curve out like it should. I'm at work currently so I don't have my list with me,, but ill upload it in a few hours.
I was wondering what the standard cards for this area are in other peoples list.
As you can see, it's mostly utility guys (the vandals, Squee, Recruiter, Imp), with a couple of aggro dudes.
The spells are a lot more impressive, with several great burn cards, some solid disruption cards, and Wheel.
Hell's Thunder has been really good for us. Based on the success of Blistering Firecat I think I may give Ball Lightning a try. I know it's not in the same league but a big trampling creature is just so sweet when they tap out.
I also am running Splatter Thug and it has done a solid job so far. I hope to get to the point where a card like that won't be necessary but with the current "quality" of 3-drop creatures I feel like it's a solid addition.
One guy I run at 3 CMC in red that I don't think a lot of others do is Inner-Flame Acolyte. It comes as a 4/2 haster most of the time, then leaves a 2/2 body. In a pinch, it can give +2/+0 to a flyer such as Chandra's Phoenix or you can evoke it to give a later guy haste.
I'm a big sucker for haste in red aggro, and 4 power of haste that leaves behind a 2/2 body has been solid for our red decks.
Other decent 3-drops that could be included in Cubes larger than wtwlf123's Cube are Urza's Rage (for coolness factor more than efficiency), Brimstone Volley, Flame Javelin (although whether this is a true 3CC card is debatable).
I'm currently testing Puncture Blast in order to give Red a way to kill bigger dudes without losing a creature on top and to deal with regeneration and it's been doing the job. Obviously not spectacular, but a nice decent overall.
In my head, x-drop refers primarily to creatures of cmc x. Have I been using and thinking this term the wrong way the whole time?
I don't think more burnspells are what's missing. What red needs are three-drops that go and beat your opponent up.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
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*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I have Chandra's Phoenix, [CARD]Fire Imp
[/CARD], Keldon Vandals and Manic Vandal in my 450 cards cube. What bothers me is that 3/4 are utility creatures. Fire Imp is OK I guess, at least it typically removes a blocker so you can get in the red zone. But I'm not sure the Gray Ogres with Shatter are what I really want in red. Why should I even care what they do? I could just be playing Ball Lightning, Hell's Thunder, Boggart Ram-Gang and kill them before they ever can equip a sword.
I strongly believe nobody should consider Squee a red card in their cube. It is really a BUG wedge card, so you're doing red a big disservice if Squee is taking up a slot.
I disagree with this completely. A lot of what I use Squee for requires him to be cast. I almost never run him in a deck without access to red mana. That makes it a red card.
That's true. I wanted to add some creatures, and realized all had already been mentioned in the thread, so I simply added a few spells as Wildfire had started to do so, and did not went back to fix the 3-drops thing.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Just upped my cube size from 450 to 500 but I'm having complaints that the mono red deck doesn't have enough three drops and therefore doesn't curve out like it should. I'm at work currently so I don't have my list with me,, but ill upload it in a few hours.
I was wondering what the standard cards for this area are in other peoples list.
My opinion is that red DOESNT curve out like you'd want it to. It's got amazing 2cc and 4cc. The 3's, when you get down to it, are "okay". Sulfuric Vortex is a tank and I have a sweet spot for Chandra's Phoenix (good situations in cube where it owns). Staggershock is useful (double shock, why not?) but everything else is okay. Manic Vandal and co. do "enough"...but nothing to blow your mind. It also depends how you build a cube. You can open red up to the destroy-and-pillage plan with pillage, stone rain, molten rain effects and add that dynamic to the cube. Those are all decent 3cc. Or you can skip them entirely to beef up 2cc/4cc shenanigans.
Guys like Fire Imp and Recruiter I've been back and forth on. At the moment I don't run either because IMO neither do "enough" for me. They're there for the sake of being a 3cc spell. That's not what you want. You should always look at archetypes and "am I supporting X in my cardpool". We are OCD on having perfect balanced curves. Seriously, I don't like the 3cc slot in red because it doesn't compare to the likes of say white or blue. I run enough to push archetypes and if a card doesn't work/isn't getting picked, something need to be fixed. I got that response from several 3cc red spells.
EDIT: My current config for a small cube has this in the 3cc red range for critters:
-Chandra's Phoenix
-Manic Vandal
-Squee (although there are times I consider him colorless due to the way people draft him)
Spells I am tossing things around:
-Arc Lightning
-Char (questionable for some)
-Flames of the Firebrand
-Pillage/Stone Rain/Molten Rain combo (see above, you can skip this package)
-Staggershock
-Wheel of Fortune (non-powered, so this is less combo-oriented)
-Sulfuric Vortex
If I wanted to, I could easily drop stone/molten (possibly pillage also) for more raw creatures and burn. Char is a personal favorite in this slot because it pushes that super aggro design (BR aggro/RG aggro). Wheel of Fortune is overlooked in unpowered lists. It's great to refuel.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I run Sulfur Elemental and he's pretty good. He has an aggressive body, can't be countered, can be used as a combat trick, has pseudo haste, and really does a number on white tokens or white aggro decks as he wipes out all of the Soltari guys for the most part.
Also, he's pretty good in red heavy boros that uses two plus toughness guys in white. Sure, he's bad with Mom or Lions, but he does do well with Isamaru and makes something like Kor Skyfisher beastly. Even Stoneforge Mystic becomes more aggressive with him around.
I'll put my case in for Fervent Cathar and Crossway Vampire.
I haven't tested them personally, but they seem like they would be good, and I've been considering this problem myself for a while.
I like Suq'Ata Lancer better than Ronin Houndmaster. I feel like the pseudo first strike that the flanking provides against X/1 creatures is better than getting +1/+1 from blocking as well as attacking. Plus the art is way cooler.
I like Suq'Ata Lancer better than Ronin Houndmaster. I feel like the pseudo first strike that the flanking provides against X/1 creatures is better than getting +1/+1 from blocking as well as attacking. Plus the art is way cooler.
Agreed. Suq'Ata Lancer was decent in early iterations of my cube. He's outclassed in all but large cubes now.
I hated Sulfur Elemental in my cube. It usually didn't do enough and once in a while it made my opponent's creatures better. It's one of the cards I was actively happy to cut.
While it shouldn't matter if your deck is doing what it's supposed to, it is worth noting that bushido works on the defensive, while flanking only works if they block
Hell's Thunder has been great. Zo-zu also is very good support in red aggro if your red also runs LD. Zo-zu and then a goblin ruinblaster or avalanche riders is very nice.
I was wondering what the standard cards for this area are in other peoples list.
1 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Fire Imp
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Manic Vandal
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Char
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Molten Rain
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Wheel of Fortune
As you can see, it's mostly utility guys (the vandals, Squee, Recruiter, Imp), with a couple of aggro dudes.
The spells are a lot more impressive, with several great burn cards, some solid disruption cards, and Wheel.
If you're looking for some additional aggro options, you could consider:
Ball Lightning
Hell's Thunder
Goblin Ruinblaster (really more of a four drop, but functions at three as well)
Reckless Brute
Vulshock Sorcerer/Cunning Sparkmage
Countryside Crusher
Crossway Vampire
Flame Javelin
Sulfur Elemental
Markov Blademaster
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I also am running Splatter Thug and it has done a solid job so far. I hope to get to the point where a card like that won't be necessary but with the current "quality" of 3-drop creatures I feel like it's a solid addition.
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I'm a big sucker for haste in red aggro, and 4 power of haste that leaves behind a 2/2 body has been solid for our red decks.
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Think he meant it's not really a red card. Not that you shouldn't play it.
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In my head, x-drop refers primarily to creatures of cmc x. Have I been using and thinking this term the wrong way the whole time?
I don't think more burnspells are what's missing. What red needs are three-drops that go and beat your opponent up.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
[/CARD], Keldon Vandals and Manic Vandal in my 450 cards cube. What bothers me is that 3/4 are utility creatures. Fire Imp is OK I guess, at least it typically removes a blocker so you can get in the red zone. But I'm not sure the Gray Ogres with Shatter are what I really want in red. Why should I even care what they do? I could just be playing Ball Lightning, Hell's Thunder, Boggart Ram-Gang and kill them before they ever can equip a sword.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I disagree with this completely. A lot of what I use Squee for requires him to be cast. I almost never run him in a deck without access to red mana. That makes it a red card.
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You could also try more 3-mana enchantments. Sulfuric Vortex is one of Red's absolute best cards, so you could attempt to emulate it with cards like Impatience, Ancient Runes, Rivalry, Spellshock.
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Instead of Spellshock: Pyrostatic Pillar. Not three mana, so it somehow misses the point here, but I guess it's a better card. (or is it?)
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Against a control deck, Spellshock could be better, as it'll still tag them on their Wraths, their finishers, their planeswalkers.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
My opinion is that red DOESNT curve out like you'd want it to. It's got amazing 2cc and 4cc. The 3's, when you get down to it, are "okay". Sulfuric Vortex is a tank and I have a sweet spot for Chandra's Phoenix (good situations in cube where it owns). Staggershock is useful (double shock, why not?) but everything else is okay. Manic Vandal and co. do "enough"...but nothing to blow your mind. It also depends how you build a cube. You can open red up to the destroy-and-pillage plan with pillage, stone rain, molten rain effects and add that dynamic to the cube. Those are all decent 3cc. Or you can skip them entirely to beef up 2cc/4cc shenanigans.
Guys like Fire Imp and Recruiter I've been back and forth on. At the moment I don't run either because IMO neither do "enough" for me. They're there for the sake of being a 3cc spell. That's not what you want. You should always look at archetypes and "am I supporting X in my cardpool". We are OCD on having perfect balanced curves. Seriously, I don't like the 3cc slot in red because it doesn't compare to the likes of say white or blue. I run enough to push archetypes and if a card doesn't work/isn't getting picked, something need to be fixed. I got that response from several 3cc red spells.
EDIT: My current config for a small cube has this in the 3cc red range for critters:
-Chandra's Phoenix
-Manic Vandal
-Squee (although there are times I consider him colorless due to the way people draft him)
Spells I am tossing things around:
-Arc Lightning
-Char (questionable for some)
-Flames of the Firebrand
-Pillage/Stone Rain/Molten Rain combo (see above, you can skip this package)
-Staggershock
-Wheel of Fortune (non-powered, so this is less combo-oriented)
-Sulfuric Vortex
If I wanted to, I could easily drop stone/molten (possibly pillage also) for more raw creatures and burn. Char is a personal favorite in this slot because it pushes that super aggro design (BR aggro/RG aggro). Wheel of Fortune is overlooked in unpowered lists. It's great to refuel.
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I would consider both of these "non red" although if you view hybrid as qualifying for mono color, neither are bad I guess.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Also, he's pretty good in red heavy boros that uses two plus toughness guys in white. Sure, he's bad with Mom or Lions, but he does do well with Isamaru and makes something like Kor Skyfisher beastly. Even Stoneforge Mystic becomes more aggressive with him around.
I haven't tested them personally, but they seem like they would be good, and I've been considering this problem myself for a while.
Agreed. Suq'Ata Lancer was decent in early iterations of my cube. He's outclassed in all but large cubes now.
I hated Sulfur Elemental in my cube. It usually didn't do enough and once in a while it made my opponent's creatures better. It's one of the cards I was actively happy to cut.
Cheers,
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