My takeaway from this is that my cube is probably a lot faster than ya'lls, so I should look into that. If the decks from my cube don't even have time to play one of the best statted red creatures out there, it might be too fast. Just one final question though: In what SPECIFIC decks do people usually play him in for you guys? R/x Midrange? RDW? Like somebody mentioned Recurring Nightmare, but that probably never happened because Nightmare is (in my experience) never played alongside red cards. Metamind mentioned the same issue a page back, but I guess everybody else seems to have different experiences playing SGC than us.
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Eh, I call it more of an impulse. Don't really know why I posted that, so sorry on my part.
Thanks for the input Mike! I don't support most stax cards anymore because it literally never worked, and Braids never got picked for aggro decks, so I ended up cutting her too. You guys inform me that tokens seems to be one of, if not the biggest reason to play him, so now I can see why he might not be as highly picked in my cube as in others. For midrange, I can only really think of R/G as a deck that would want him, as R/W, R/B and R/U are almost never midrange decks, but rather aggro that curves out at 4. I'll try to keep it in longer and see how it goes.
I don't think your cube is any faster than ours, just that you're emphasizing different archetypes. Stax/pox with Braids is pretty good here, as is tokens. Again, RW with Porphoros, Enlightened Tutor, SGC, Secure the Wastes, etc. Sometimes you splash for black, mostly for tutors. Sometimes for green, mostly for Mirari's Wake. It just depends.
A card with this power level and synergy potential has lots of homes in my cube. And again, I'll sometimes reach all the way up to 5 for one card in an aggro or aggressive midrange list, and this is the one I like best in red. That happens in red, RG, and RB, especially if I've got some of the black attrition cards in there.
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EDH: UGEdric
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My cube leanes towards a creature heavy midrange cube but SCG has seen play in:
R/W Tokens
R/G Tokens alongside deranged hermit a similarily awesome card which i think also shows how SGC is good.
R/B Stax
U/R Opposition
R/x Aggro as a curve topper to give some reach on a stabilized board
R/x Burn
R/B Sneak Attack/Reanimate
R/W Blink
R/x RDW/Midrange with goblin rabblemaster synergy and or krenko, mob boss (pet card)
any Midrange deck playing Red
I feel like he fits into a lot of different archetypes pretty nicely. If you are saying R/W, R/U and R/B never get played as midrange then it might just be the way your play group plays. Do you have a cube tutor link for your cube? I think it could help see why he might not be as successful in your cube.
I detailed a list of decks that I play it in in my previous post.
I highly doubt your cube's speed has anything to do with SGC. My cube is pretty fast, and SGC is still the best red 5-drop. For pretty much every red deck. Aggro, midrange, Recruiter shells, token shells ...pretty much all of 'em. Except Wildfire decks and some control shells.
Just one final question though: In what SPECIFIC decks do people usually play him in for you guys? R/x Midrange? RDW? Like somebody mentioned Recurring Nightmare, but that probably never happened because Nightmare is (in my experience) never played alongside red cards.
You should try pairing Nightmare with red. It can be really great. You get SGC, Pia and Kiran, Inferno Titan, Squee, and some ways to fill the 'yard (Firestorm, Faithless Looting). I often find myself splashing red or going full-on Jund in RecSur decks, so I can include some of these cards, along with Dragonlord Atarka and Sarkhan Vol.
I run SGC in Stax, RX midrange, RX token decks, Alesha/Reveillark shenanigans deck, Opposition decks, and the admittedly rare UR or UWR blink deck (preferably with Crystal Shard and Mimic Vat). I will occasionally run him as my curve topper in RX aggro.
On a recent article on Cube Cobra, the author says that a mistake of his was believing Seige Gang is a staple. I asked about it on Reddit and he's apparently not the only one who no longer likes Seige Gang.
Personally, I think that's crazy. I still believe its the best 5 drop in red and would only cut it if you're a full on combo cube with Kiki/Conscripts. However, due to a buddy moving away and COVID I haven't played cube in a long time so maybe things have changed? What do you guys think?
I don't run kiki combo, and I agree if you had that package it's more important to run kiki and conscripts if you are only running 2 red 5's. Outside of that context, though, I still am very happy to have Seige Gang in all but the most low-slung red decks. Provides incredible reach, is resistant to removal, and combos with rabblemaster and any other goblin token makers you run. Further, RW tokens is a supported archetype in our cube and he's great there too.
If I only had 2 red 5's, siege gang would be one of them (again, since I don't run kiki/twin).
I like SGC the best of the red 5s, outside of Kiki combo. I like it better than Glorybringer. Now that I have support for persist combo (Bombardment, Blasting Station, Altars), SGC got even better. There's also the chance of just playing it after Purphoros and doming your opponent for 8.
I just decided to cut Siege-Gang from my 360 list last week. I would still refer to Siege-Gang as a staple however, and definitely one of the top 5-drops. I cut him because I play Conscripts/Kiki. I only have room for 3 5-drops and decided to stick with Thundermaw for now, as it is more popular among my playgroup. That said, Siege-Gang is still a fantastic card and I would definitely put him back in if I shift to 450. Perhaps I'll swap out Thundermaw for him down the line as well, we'll see.
I only run two at 360 and I like Thundermaw and Glorybringer the best of red 5s. Siege-Gang is next after that, it's just too much mana to activate.
I think these 3 are all very close (I run all 3) and if I had to run only one it would be one of the dragons, probably glorybringer, but once you get to 2 the 2 dragons are close enough to filling similar roles that I like SGC as the 2nd. But these 3 are all so close that it's just personal preference and all 3 are defendanble as the best 5 IMO.
Eh we cut him years ago. He's just kinda slow, but he's certainly more than playable up until like 450. As much as I hate to say it I don't think he makes the cut at 360, powered or not. He's one of those cards that's just really middling, and struggles to find a consistent home. We play both of the green hermits (Deep Forest Hermit and Deranged Hermit) alongside Angel of Invention and Pia and Kiran Nalaar, as army-in-a-can style creatures tend to be really good, but siege-gang specifically happens to be in a color that wants its top end to either be able to survive Wildfires or be playable in RDW, and preferably both, meanwhile this card provides neither. Hermits and Angel are fantastic and are absolutely top of the heap cube cards, but siege-gang specifically struggles to find a home because of its color and cmc.
I think the varying difference in opinion for Siege Gang- Commander may have to do with how well people can do combat math/ race situations etc.
If you have 8 mana, Siege Gang Commander could throw 8 damage (including itself) at this opponent. You could also attack with all 4 goblins (5 Damage + throw 8 damage).
This isn't a straight forwards card like Thundermaw Hellkite or GloryBringer which is turn it sideways and attack. In order to fully deploy a creature like this, you need to weigh out how to effectively use your mana on the next turn - do you leave mana for Siege Gang activations or do you cast more spells?
Similarly, if you're casting a 5 drop, chances are you are behind on board. How well could you use Siege Gang chomp block/ throw damage at your opponent's creatures.
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Eh, I call it more of an impulse. Don't really know why I posted that, so sorry on my part.
A card with this power level and synergy potential has lots of homes in my cube. And again, I'll sometimes reach all the way up to 5 for one card in an aggro or aggressive midrange list, and this is the one I like best in red. That happens in red, RG, and RB, especially if I've got some of the black attrition cards in there.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
R/W Tokens
R/G Tokens alongside deranged hermit a similarily awesome card which i think also shows how SGC is good.
R/B Stax
U/R Opposition
R/x Aggro as a curve topper to give some reach on a stabilized board
R/x Burn
R/B Sneak Attack/Reanimate
R/W Blink
R/x RDW/Midrange with goblin rabblemaster synergy and or krenko, mob boss (pet card)
any Midrange deck playing Red
I feel like he fits into a lot of different archetypes pretty nicely. If you are saying R/W, R/U and R/B never get played as midrange then it might just be the way your play group plays. Do you have a cube tutor link for your cube? I think it could help see why he might not be as successful in your cube.
I highly doubt your cube's speed has anything to do with SGC. My cube is pretty fast, and SGC is still the best red 5-drop. For pretty much every red deck. Aggro, midrange, Recruiter shells, token shells ...pretty much all of 'em. Except Wildfire decks and some control shells.
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You should try pairing Nightmare with red. It can be really great. You get SGC, Pia and Kiran, Inferno Titan, Squee, and some ways to fill the 'yard (Firestorm, Faithless Looting). I often find myself splashing red or going full-on Jund in RecSur decks, so I can include some of these cards, along with Dragonlord Atarka and Sarkhan Vol.
I run SGC in Stax, RX midrange, RX token decks, Alesha/Reveillark shenanigans deck, Opposition decks, and the admittedly rare UR or UWR blink deck (preferably with Crystal Shard and Mimic Vat). I will occasionally run him as my curve topper in RX aggro.
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Thanks for all your input and patience guys.
Personally, I think that's crazy. I still believe its the best 5 drop in red and would only cut it if you're a full on combo cube with Kiki/Conscripts. However, due to a buddy moving away and COVID I haven't played cube in a long time so maybe things have changed? What do you guys think?
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If I only had 2 red 5's, siege gang would be one of them (again, since I don't run kiki/twin).
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
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I think these 3 are all very close (I run all 3) and if I had to run only one it would be one of the dragons, probably glorybringer, but once you get to 2 the 2 dragons are close enough to filling similar roles that I like SGC as the 2nd. But these 3 are all so close that it's just personal preference and all 3 are defendanble as the best 5 IMO.
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I think the varying difference in opinion for Siege Gang- Commander may have to do with how well people can do combat math/ race situations etc.
If you have 8 mana, Siege Gang Commander could throw 8 damage (including itself) at this opponent. You could also attack with all 4 goblins (5 Damage + throw 8 damage).
This isn't a straight forwards card like Thundermaw Hellkite or GloryBringer which is turn it sideways and attack. In order to fully deploy a creature like this, you need to weigh out how to effectively use your mana on the next turn - do you leave mana for Siege Gang activations or do you cast more spells?
Similarly, if you're casting a 5 drop, chances are you are behind on board. How well could you use Siege Gang chomp block/ throw damage at your opponent's creatures.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i