@wtwlf:
We will probably have to agree to disagree on the classification of Blistering Firecat and the Jihad comparison, HOWEVER your intense support of the card has led me to believe that I should try it again, so I will find a way to add it back in.
@wtwlf:
We will probably have to agree to disagree on the classification of Blistering Firecat and the Jihad comparison, HOWEVER your intense support of the card has led me to believe that I should try it again, so I will find a way to add it back in.
Now if you can convince me on Willbender...
We'll have to agree to disagree, and that's okay.
Willbender averages a splashable 3-for-1 card advantage card while also protecting your other stuff. He was good enough for me to play in a powered 360.
Willbender averages a splashable 3-for-1 card advantage card while also protecting your other stuff. He was good enough for me to play in a powered 360.
I just felt that he was way too much mana for the effect, and he isn't much of a surprise to anyone in the Cube format. I also wish his body were more relevant.
I just felt that he was way too much mana for the effect, and he isn't much of a surprise to anyone in the Cube format. I also wish his body were more relevant.
Ya, he'd be stellar as a 1/3 or a 2/2 post-Morph, but the effect is super powerful. Even if they know what it is, forcing them to play around it is really disrupting to their game. And being able to redirect abilities in addition to spells is quite powerful. There's so many spells and abilities that target in the cube, it's bound to cripple several cards in your opponent's hand/deck. And it's not like blue decks won't be passing the turn with 2-mana available a lot of the time anyways. Even grabbing a Wasteland or Diabolic Edict is huge, and it's beastly against cards that lead to card advantage for your opponent like Mind Twist and Hymn to Tourach. It's been a 4-for-1 on more than one occasion. But it usually just hits a Disenchant or Removal spell/effect, and takes the card they cast, one of their permanents, protects your target and leaves you with a small body on the board. That's fine for 3 + 1U, in my experience. Plus, he can carry equipment and stuff in Ogre form as it is. 2/2 bodies aren't useless in the cube.
As many people probably know from previous discussions about the Willbender, I don't like it at all. It just didn't work in my playgroup I guess. Anyway I don't even think it's good enough for a spot in my 810 card cube.
For my playgroup it was:
To easy to spot (we often draft Rochester - so it's even more obvious there)
To easy to play around.
To severe an investment to use 3 mana for a 2/2 for our controldecks. Too often it just resulted in removal and thus a major setback for the control deck, that needs to either kill the opponents creatures or have counter-mana up.
I look at it and see a 3 mana 2/2 that can pay 1U to give you and permanents you control shroud (but worse, if the effects say "target opponent", or if they don't have targets for their kill spells). You only get to use the effect once as well, if your opponent tries to blow through it. Even at peasant, my response is a resounding meh. Leaving up more than 1 mana for a creature to protect itself/matter is disrupting to my gameplan.
Not saying that it is bad, I don't think that he's consistently good.
I am testing pushing morph much much harder than normal to see how it plays out in my cube. Does doubling the number of morphs in the cube actually increase the uncertainty and value of the morphs, or do people simply not play the second-tier morphs and the misdirection is lost?
My morph creatures:
Exalted Archangel. Yep, it's easily the best morph. Uncuttable at any size, and it has benefitted from the "protection" of having other morphs around.
White is the only color I'm not running a second morph in. Whipcorder is just so unimpressive. To make up for it, I am running:
Zoetic Cavern. This has been a pleasant surprise. It has been run against me in decks that don't run any other morphs, and I always play against it incorrectly. (I end up playing around a nonexistant Willbender or Bane of the Living, and it really messes up my game.) Having a chump blocker or equipment-carrier late game or even a 5-mana second land drop has not been irrelevant either. This one addition makes the "good" morphs better more than adding all the rest of the "bad" morphs did.
Nantuko Vigilante. Playable in "normal" cubes, but barely these days. Easily makes my morph-heavy cube.
Hystrodon. A bad morph Ohran Viper, so far it's never been run as the only morph. It has surprised a defender and drawn a card or two. This should only see play if your cube really likes morphs.
Blistering Firecat. Actually, it's not seen play since I added it in, so I'll defer to wtwlf's opinion on this.
Akroma, Angel of Fury. Red has been getting better finishers recently, so this addition is more painful than it was a few months ago. It has won me some games, and will stay in a bit longer. Having a finisher as a potential morph can make a difference--it makes all morphs a bit more threatening.
Willbender. My favorite morph, and the one that has benefited most from having more morphs around. This has been discussed already, but I am generally willing to play slightly weaker cards if they lead to more interesting gameplay decisions. Willbender is the posterboy for this kind of card...
Vesuvan Shapeshifter. This would potentially stay even if I cut back to a more "normal" distribution. Clones are great in cube in general, and the bluff/misdirection is not irrelevant.
Bane of the Living. What I've realized is that having a variety of unmorph effects helps all morph. A wrath, a misdirection, a clone, a finisher, etc. all force your opponent to potentially make suboptimal decisions. Anyway, as mentioned before, this is a solid card, and in my opinion the third-best morph.
Grinning Demon. This was too painful for even me to run, and I cut it despite the push for morph. I might try to test Zombie Cutthroat in this slot instead.
Overall, I'm not sold on my big push for morphs. I love the mechanic, and having the extra morphs in has sometimes made for more interesting decisions during play, but nowadays when making painful cuts with each new set keeping stuff like Hystrodon in simply hurts. The most pleasant surprise for me has been Zoetic Cavern--as I said above, the mere existence of the card in a cube has made all the other morphs better. If I cut make to more normal levels, this will stay in in my 500 unpowered...
Grinning Demon. This was too painful for even me to run, and I cut it despite the push for morph. I might try to test Zombie Cutthroatin this slot instead.
If you haven't tried out Silent Specter, the card can be a surprising beating.
If you haven't tried out Silent Specter, the card can be a surprising beating.
Agree with this. Also if I was pushing morph, Gathan Raiders would make my list. It's a great aggro card, gets in for 5 pretty often, and helps out reanimation/flashback/madness/graveyard strategies.
I'll second (or third) that. I'm a big fan of Gathan Raiders. Getting an occasional 5/5 for three mana and a card in any color of deck (!) is pretty good, and it helps out graveyard based strategies. Silent Specter is also nice, although there's less leeway for five drops than four drops when you pit it against Grinning Demon.
So what you're saying is that we need another Time Spiral block, right?
A thousand times yes. I loved that block, and thought they did a phenomenal job with it. Sadly though, they make money off of new players (for the most part) so we'll probably see three tribal and gold sets before we see another awesome TS set.
Just as another plug for Willbender: Today I was playing an odd UR deck with Tinker that had lots of counters but not enough burn to call it counterburn. Anyway, I had Blistering Firecat, Willbender, and Zoetic Cavern in the deck, and once he knew I had all three his decisionmaking became very screwed up.
Anyway, at one point he had Strangleroot Geist down while I had a morphed Willbender. He plays Sarkhan the Mad, and tries to off the Geist to make a dragon (and an undying Geist, of course). I couldn't remember for the life of me if Willbender hit abilities as well as spells, and I was trying to secretly read the TINY print on Sarkhan upside down without seeming to to see who would get the dragon if I redirected.
Luckily, it all worked, and I redirected the dragonmaking to my Willbender, and proceeded to attack Sarkhan to death with it next turn.
As more and more really good cards see print, the morph creatures are getting closer and closer to the chopping block for me. How many of you would support all 5 morphs at the 360 level?
I rank them in this order.
Exalted Angel
Blistering Firecat
Nantuko Vigilante
Bane of the Living
Willbender
I'm considering cutting the bottom two, possibly three, from my cube, but I'm still unsure how I feel about that. I think they're at their best when there is a morph for each color. I could use some more thoughts on this.
The only one I'm running at 320 is Exalted Angel - the others were cut as I went below 360. I'm not bothered about keeping one in each colour for symmetry or surprise reasons. I might possibly run Vigilante or Willbender at 360, but not the others.
As more and more really good cards see print, the morph creatures are getting closer and closer to the chopping block for me. How many of you would support all 5 morphs at the 360 level?
I rank them in this order.
Exalted Angel
Blistering Firecat
Nantuko Vigilante
Bane of the Living
Willbender
I'm considering cutting the bottom two, possibly three, from my cube, but I'm still unsure how I feel about that. I think they're at their best when there is a morph for each color. I could use some more thoughts on this.
I'd say it might be time to cut them altogether, to be quite honest. A 360 cube doesn't really have room for anything but the best. A case could be made for Exalted Angel and Blistering Firecat on their own merits, but there's mostly better options out there. Exalted Angel could be Sublime Archangel, and Blistering Firecat could be Hell's Thunder, Ball Lightning, or Hellrider, depending on what role exactly you wanted it to fill.
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I bit the bullet and cut them all several months ago in my powered 360, and haven't missed them at all. Wish I'd have cut them earlier, in fact.
Exalted Angel is the only one that's powerful enough on its own to merit inclusion in smaller cubes, but without the other 4 for a surprise factor, it's not as good as it otherwise would be.
We will probably have to agree to disagree on the classification of Blistering Firecat and the Jihad comparison, HOWEVER your intense support of the card has led me to believe that I should try it again, so I will find a way to add it back in.
Now if you can convince me on Willbender...
We'll have to agree to disagree, and that's okay.
Willbender averages a splashable 3-for-1 card advantage card while also protecting your other stuff. He was good enough for me to play in a powered 360.
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Whoops, heh heh heh, you're right. I don't run the V. Doppelganger. Supposed to be the shapeshifter.
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I just felt that he was way too much mana for the effect, and he isn't much of a surprise to anyone in the Cube format. I also wish his body were more relevant.
Ya, he'd be stellar as a 1/3 or a 2/2 post-Morph, but the effect is super powerful. Even if they know what it is, forcing them to play around it is really disrupting to their game. And being able to redirect abilities in addition to spells is quite powerful. There's so many spells and abilities that target in the cube, it's bound to cripple several cards in your opponent's hand/deck. And it's not like blue decks won't be passing the turn with 2-mana available a lot of the time anyways. Even grabbing a Wasteland or Diabolic Edict is huge, and it's beastly against cards that lead to card advantage for your opponent like Mind Twist and Hymn to Tourach. It's been a 4-for-1 on more than one occasion. But it usually just hits a Disenchant or Removal spell/effect, and takes the card they cast, one of their permanents, protects your target and leaves you with a small body on the board. That's fine for 3 + 1U, in my experience. Plus, he can carry equipment and stuff in Ogre form as it is. 2/2 bodies aren't useless in the cube.
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For my playgroup it was:
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Not saying that it is bad, I don't think that he's consistently good.
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My morph creatures:
Exalted Archangel. Yep, it's easily the best morph. Uncuttable at any size, and it has benefitted from the "protection" of having other morphs around.
White is the only color I'm not running a second morph in. Whipcorder is just so unimpressive. To make up for it, I am running:
Zoetic Cavern. This has been a pleasant surprise. It has been run against me in decks that don't run any other morphs, and I always play against it incorrectly. (I end up playing around a nonexistant Willbender or Bane of the Living, and it really messes up my game.) Having a chump blocker or equipment-carrier late game or even a 5-mana second land drop has not been irrelevant either. This one addition makes the "good" morphs better more than adding all the rest of the "bad" morphs did.
Nantuko Vigilante. Playable in "normal" cubes, but barely these days. Easily makes my morph-heavy cube.
Hystrodon. A bad morph Ohran Viper, so far it's never been run as the only morph. It has surprised a defender and drawn a card or two. This should only see play if your cube really likes morphs.
Blistering Firecat. Actually, it's not seen play since I added it in, so I'll defer to wtwlf's opinion on this.
Akroma, Angel of Fury. Red has been getting better finishers recently, so this addition is more painful than it was a few months ago. It has won me some games, and will stay in a bit longer. Having a finisher as a potential morph can make a difference--it makes all morphs a bit more threatening.
Willbender. My favorite morph, and the one that has benefited most from having more morphs around. This has been discussed already, but I am generally willing to play slightly weaker cards if they lead to more interesting gameplay decisions. Willbender is the posterboy for this kind of card...
Vesuvan Shapeshifter. This would potentially stay even if I cut back to a more "normal" distribution. Clones are great in cube in general, and the bluff/misdirection is not irrelevant.
Bane of the Living. What I've realized is that having a variety of unmorph effects helps all morph. A wrath, a misdirection, a clone, a finisher, etc. all force your opponent to potentially make suboptimal decisions. Anyway, as mentioned before, this is a solid card, and in my opinion the third-best morph.
Grinning Demon. This was too painful for even me to run, and I cut it despite the push for morph. I might try to test Zombie Cutthroat in this slot instead.
Overall, I'm not sold on my big push for morphs. I love the mechanic, and having the extra morphs in has sometimes made for more interesting decisions during play, but nowadays when making painful cuts with each new set keeping stuff like Hystrodon in simply hurts. The most pleasant surprise for me has been Zoetic Cavern--as I said above, the mere existence of the card in a cube has made all the other morphs better. If I cut make to more normal levels, this will stay in in my 500 unpowered...
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If you haven't tried out Silent Specter, the card can be a surprising beating.
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Agree with this. Also if I was pushing morph, Gathan Raiders would make my list. It's a great aggro card, gets in for 5 pretty often, and helps out reanimation/flashback/madness/graveyard strategies.
Cheers,
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So what you're saying is that we need another Time Spiral block, right?
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A thousand times yes. I loved that block, and thought they did a phenomenal job with it. Sadly though, they make money off of new players (for the most part) so we'll probably see three tribal and gold sets before we see another awesome TS set.
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I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Anyway, at one point he had Strangleroot Geist down while I had a morphed Willbender. He plays Sarkhan the Mad, and tries to off the Geist to make a dragon (and an undying Geist, of course). I couldn't remember for the life of me if Willbender hit abilities as well as spells, and I was trying to secretly read the TINY print on Sarkhan upside down without seeming to to see who would get the dragon if I redirected.
Luckily, it all worked, and I redirected the dragonmaking to my Willbender, and proceeded to attack Sarkhan to death with it next turn.
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I would think it is easier to support morph in a cube without rares. They always were more"surprising" in my commons cube.
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I would also consider
I rank them in this order.
Exalted Angel
Blistering Firecat
Nantuko Vigilante
Bane of the Living
Willbender
I'm considering cutting the bottom two, possibly three, from my cube, but I'm still unsure how I feel about that. I think they're at their best when there is a morph for each color. I could use some more thoughts on this.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'd say it might be time to cut them altogether, to be quite honest. A 360 cube doesn't really have room for anything but the best. A case could be made for Exalted Angel and Blistering Firecat on their own merits, but there's mostly better options out there. Exalted Angel could be Sublime Archangel, and Blistering Firecat could be Hell's Thunder, Ball Lightning, or Hellrider, depending on what role exactly you wanted it to fill.
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Exalted Angel is the only one that's powerful enough on its own to merit inclusion in smaller cubes, but without the other 4 for a surprise factor, it's not as good as it otherwise would be.
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