Is it time to start cubing Carrion Feeder? I'm going to try him out over Mogis Marauder.
Combos with:
Muzzio's Preparations (Murderous Redcap with +1/+1 counters causes an infinite damage combo with Carrion Feeder. Even though it's 3 cards, it really only requires 2 cards in play once you have Muzzio's Preparations. You can also gain infinite life with Kitchen Finks, destroy all your opponents non-creatures with Woodfall Primus, or counter every non-creature your opponent has with Glen Elendra Archmage.
Ophiomancer (ridiculously strong combo, he gets +1/+1 each turn / +2/+2 per round and you can still use the deathtouch tokens to block)
Nezumi Graverobber (normally weak combo, although you can do some crazy stuff like sacrifice Grave Titan on your opponent's EOT then reanimate him for two additional 2/2 zombies)
Here are some more smaller selling points:
1. You can't get your guys stolen by Control Magic, Treachery, Sower of Temptation, or other steal creature effects (edicts are particularly bad against the opponent when they can steal your guy). You get a relevant bonus for sacrificing them, too.
2. You can sacrifice your Dark Confidant or Vampire Lacerator to prevent losing the game. I realize this is a very small bonus.
3. He's a Zombie so you don't take damage off of Sarcomancy. I realize this is a very small bonus.
4. He allows you to swing into blockers where it might otherwise be unprofitable. (You have two 2/1s + Feeder, your opponent has a 2/3).
5. He allows Gravecrawler to get cast from the graveyard easier (this is a slightly different benefit with Gravecrawler than the combo listed above).
6. You can sacrifice an x/2, x/3, etc equipped with Skullclamp to draw cards.
7. You can sacrifice your persist guys if they have ETB or LTB triggers. Woodfall Primus and Kitchen Finks are particularly savage.
8. Hellspark Elemental basically gives him +2/+2.
9. Keldon Marauders give him +1/+1.
10. You can sacrifice your Jackal Pup and Firedrinker Satyr after blocking to not take any damage.
11. If you're not going to pay echo on Avalanche Riders, Deranged Hermit, or Goblin Patrol, he gets a +1/+1 counter during your upkeep.
12. Goblin Welder + This guy + Myr Battlesphere or Wurmcoil Engine is crazy stuff.
13. He can get free counters off of your opponent casting removal on your guys. Particularly satisfying in nullifying Faith's Fetters.
14. Dude gets enormous with Mirror Entity thanks to the +1/+1 counters.
15. I haven't thought of all the stuff Sun Titan can do with this guy, but it's probably a lot.
16. Draws you a card off of Solemn Simulacrum whenever you want.
17. You can blow up lands with Sundering Titan whenever you want.
18. He's good with tokens and token makers of any kind, really. Here's a list within a list within a list:
Muzzio's Preparation is what puts Feeder on the map for us. You have to draft three cards buts its actually a two card combo in games. But the other benefits have gotten better over time since its actually awesome with a number of the cards you list. For us the real question is whether to also include Viscera Seer.
Also, Feeder we prefer Feeder as a role player for black aggro over the 5th-7th shoddy one drop that will go last pick every time. Also, its another outlet to get rid of Abyssal Persecutor which is big for us.
Muzzio's Preparation is what puts Feeder on the map for us. You have to draft three cards buts its actually a two card combo in games. But the other benefits have gotten better over time since its actually awesome with a number of the cards you list. For us the real question is whether to also include Viscera Seer.
Also, Feeder we prefer Feeder as a role player for black aggro over the 5th-7th shoddy one drop that will go last pick every time. Also, its another outlet to get rid of Abyssal Persecutor which is big for us.
That is how I feel about him. There is always one of my aggro threats that get blown up, and this guy can just eat them making it as good of a beater as Vampire Lacerator, but way more interesting for all the above interactions. Just being able to sac my Messenger or Persecutor or Skullclamped creature for no mana is awesome. I am shocked that this isn't considered a staple.
Got to cube with him last night, he was awesome. Didn't get Muzzio's Preparations to combo with persist dudes, but he was just an all-around solid roleplayer. 10/10, would cube again.
I just cut him. Too much competition at 450 and I needed to find room for Scarhide and Master of the Feast. He was only OK, never great, so I doubt he's coming back.
So, if you're adding in the Melira/Muzzio's persist combo into the tube for a test, should you run this guy or Viscera Seer? It seems that scrying is more broadly useful than having an x/x guy without evasion, but I'm not sure...
Carrion Feeder has been working out decently here. It's been good against enemy Control Magic and Treachery, even though you rarely get to see it in action, it's a good amount of virtual card advantage.
He's somewhere between a 2/2-3/3 for us consistently, although I've seen him at 5/5 before, which isn't bad for a B spell.
I'm going to give him some more time in the cube, but at this point I'm on the fence with him. I'm likely going to cut him for a non-aggro card in the future. I think I'd play him at 450 though.
(Virtual) Card advantage? For your opponent, maybe
You are sacrificing cards for a ("non-card") effect, getting card advantage out of that is hard.
Excuse me if I'm using the term wrong, but I believe Virtual Card Advantage is not actual cards but nullifying cards your opponent has, or creating an advantage that is hard to describe using +1/-1 card advantage numbers. So if you have a Blood Moon out and that makes your opponents unable to cast any cards in hand where he otherwise would be able to, that would be some amount of virtual card advantage. Or if you have a Moat and your opponent can't attack with his enemy creatures (or the ones in his hand aren't good anymore, etc).
Carrion Feeder has been working out decently here. It's been good against enemy Control Magic and Treachery, even though you rarely get to see it in action, it's a good amount of virtual card advantage.
He's somewhere between a 2/2-3/3 for us consistently, although I've seen him at 5/5 before, which isn't bad for a B spell.
I'm going to give him some more time in the cube, but at this point I'm on the fence with him. I'm likely going to cut him for a non-aggro card in the future. I think I'd play him at 450 though.
We actually drafted your cube recently, and the 2nd place deck was an oddball rakdos aggro/control deck (splashing white for a double stroked path to exile)...thing that used feeder and bloodghast to great effect. Have to say it upped my opinion of this guy a lot. The no block clause really hurt it against my deck (I ended up winning with an insane BG reanimator deck where bazaar was my clear standout card), but it got a lot of damage in every game it came down early.
I think generally if you support sac combos and/or zombie aggro, he's worth testing for sure to see if your group likes him.
Oh, sweet. Yea, I'm happy you guys seemed to like him. My playgroup likes him well enough, I just don't know if we need as much aggro support as we're currently playing and I think he's one of the guys on the chopping block for black aggro. Bloodghast would be the other one, I think I want to start removing BB, WW, and RR guys whenever possible. I've already gotten rid of all the WW guys.
Bazaar of Baghdad is absolutely nuts and I'm surprised we kept it out of the cube for so long. I may post some experiences I've had recently on the Bazaar of Baghdad SCD thread if it exists. I've been giving that search function some work recently.
I'd love a report on your cube experiences with my cube on my thread if you'd ever find yourself inclined.
I still run it, but my cube is lower powered than most here. With that said, I think it's definitely playable even in higher powered lists especially if you support tokens and/or sacrifice themes. It has a ton of uses. Works great with Gravecrawler in particular. Combos with threaten affects in red, which can create massive tempo swings. And while it seems innocuous at 1/1, it can quickly grow out of control if left alone.
Back when we had fewer options at 1CC, I would have argued this guy should be in even the smallest of lists. Today though, it really depends on what you have your black section doing. At 720 though, I would certainly run this card even with minimal support for it. IMO, sacrifice effects in general are underrated in cube. Even sacrificing your own dude to prevent a control magic or exile effect can sometimes be the difference between winning and losing.
I actually just cut it in my last update. Black Aggro was fighting too hard with Pox in for cards, and so I cut a lot of the pox centric cards (Smallpox, Reassembling Skeleton, Innocent Blood) and Carrion Feeder went out with them. I think he's really good if you want to abuse Gravecrawler's recursion in your black section then Carrion Feeder is great, and if you want gravecrawler to be a 2 power one drop that occasionally gets rebought, then he's not really what you want.
I run a 180 cube with a strong token theme and supporting some Pox/Stax decks. I still cut Carrion Feeder recently for not being good enough anymore - it was the least played card in Black in my cube.
I think this card is done.
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I can't believe I hadn't run this card until last year, but it has quickly become one of the more respected cards in my Cube and is picked early by most of the players. The combo potential is just absurd, and if you see it early you leave yourself open to a variety of fun, synergistic decks.
With four recursive one drops, one more viable evoke creature in Darkness Incarnate, and tons and tons of more tokens support, I think this guy has aged very well. Do you think he is more viable in cubes nowadays?
I've been running him for about a year and in the right deck he can definitely be a Tarmogoyf esque beater. The increase in recursive one drops and token makers has definitely made the difference for me. Now that I'm going to be working in some Aristocrats support I expect Feeder will get even better. Right now he's probably my 5th best black one drop behind the recursive dudes.
I've always been fond of the guy. A free sac outlet on a body is just generally appealing, and he has the potential to get pretty big under the right circumstances. I think it does just enough for 1 mana.
Combos with:
- Muzzio's Preparations (Murderous Redcap with +1/+1 counters causes an infinite damage combo with Carrion Feeder. Even though it's 3 cards, it really only requires 2 cards in play once you have Muzzio's Preparations. You can also gain infinite life with Kitchen Finks, destroy all your opponents non-creatures with Woodfall Primus, or counter every non-creature your opponent has with Glen Elendra Archmage.
- Ophiomancer (ridiculously strong combo, he gets +1/+1 each turn / +2/+2 per round and you can still use the deathtouch tokens to block)
- Gravecrawler (strong combo)
- Reassembling Skeleton (we don't run this but I know other cubers who do)
- Living Death (sac all my guys pre-living death)
- Goblin Rabblemaster (whatever the new guy from M15 is that creates goblins each turn)
- Bitterblossom
- Bloodghast
- Squee, Goblin Nabob (weak combo)
- Pack Rat (weak combo)
- Yawgmoth's Will (weak combo)
- Nezumi Graverobber (normally weak combo, although you can do some crazy stuff like sacrifice Grave Titan on your opponent's EOT then reanimate him for two additional 2/2 zombies)
Here are some more smaller selling points:1. You can't get your guys stolen by Control Magic, Treachery, Sower of Temptation, or other steal creature effects (edicts are particularly bad against the opponent when they can steal your guy). You get a relevant bonus for sacrificing them, too.
2. You can sacrifice your Dark Confidant or Vampire Lacerator to prevent losing the game. I realize this is a very small bonus.
3. He's a Zombie so you don't take damage off of Sarcomancy. I realize this is a very small bonus.
4. He allows you to swing into blockers where it might otherwise be unprofitable. (You have two 2/1s + Feeder, your opponent has a 2/3).
5. He allows Gravecrawler to get cast from the graveyard easier (this is a slightly different benefit with Gravecrawler than the combo listed above).
6. You can sacrifice an x/2, x/3, etc equipped with Skullclamp to draw cards.
7. You can sacrifice your persist guys if they have ETB or LTB triggers. Woodfall Primus and Kitchen Finks are particularly savage.
8. Hellspark Elemental basically gives him +2/+2.
9. Keldon Marauders give him +1/+1.
10. You can sacrifice your Jackal Pup and Firedrinker Satyr after blocking to not take any damage.
11. If you're not going to pay echo on Avalanche Riders, Deranged Hermit, or Goblin Patrol, he gets a +1/+1 counter during your upkeep.
12. Goblin Welder + This guy + Myr Battlesphere or Wurmcoil Engine is crazy stuff.
13. He can get free counters off of your opponent casting removal on your guys. Particularly satisfying in nullifying Faith's Fetters.
14. Dude gets enormous with Mirror Entity thanks to the +1/+1 counters.
15. I haven't thought of all the stuff Sun Titan can do with this guy, but it's probably a lot.
16. Draws you a card off of Solemn Simulacrum whenever you want.
17. You can blow up lands with Sundering Titan whenever you want.
18. He's good with tokens and token makers of any kind, really. Here's a list within a list within a list:
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Also, Feeder we prefer Feeder as a role player for black aggro over the 5th-7th shoddy one drop that will go last pick every time. Also, its another outlet to get rid of Abyssal Persecutor which is big for us.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
That is how I feel about him. There is always one of my aggro threats that get blown up, and this guy can just eat them making it as good of a beater as Vampire Lacerator, but way more interesting for all the above interactions. Just being able to sac my Messenger or Persecutor or Skullclamped creature for no mana is awesome. I am shocked that this isn't considered a staple.
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Cheers,
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CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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He's somewhere between a 2/2-3/3 for us consistently, although I've seen him at 5/5 before, which isn't bad for a B spell.
I'm going to give him some more time in the cube, but at this point I'm on the fence with him. I'm likely going to cut him for a non-aggro card in the future. I think I'd play him at 450 though.
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Excuse me if I'm using the term wrong, but I believe Virtual Card Advantage is not actual cards but nullifying cards your opponent has, or creating an advantage that is hard to describe using +1/-1 card advantage numbers. So if you have a Blood Moon out and that makes your opponents unable to cast any cards in hand where he otherwise would be able to, that would be some amount of virtual card advantage. Or if you have a Moat and your opponent can't attack with his enemy creatures (or the ones in his hand aren't good anymore, etc).
I believe there's been a lot written about it, but I could be wrong in how I'm using the term, even though I don't think I am. Here's an article from Geordie Tait in 2003.
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We actually drafted your cube recently, and the 2nd place deck was an oddball rakdos aggro/control deck (splashing white for a double stroked path to exile)...thing that used feeder and bloodghast to great effect. Have to say it upped my opinion of this guy a lot. The no block clause really hurt it against my deck (I ended up winning with an insane BG reanimator deck where bazaar was my clear standout card), but it got a lot of damage in every game it came down early.
I think generally if you support sac combos and/or zombie aggro, he's worth testing for sure to see if your group likes him.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Bazaar of Baghdad is absolutely nuts and I'm surprised we kept it out of the cube for so long. I may post some experiences I've had recently on the Bazaar of Baghdad SCD thread if it exists. I've been giving that search function some work recently.
I'd love a report on your cube experiences with my cube on my thread if you'd ever find yourself inclined.
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Back when we had fewer options at 1CC, I would have argued this guy should be in even the smallest of lists. Today though, it really depends on what you have your black section doing. At 720 though, I would certainly run this card even with minimal support for it. IMO, sacrifice effects in general are underrated in cube. Even sacrificing your own dude to prevent a control magic or exile effect can sometimes be the difference between winning and losing.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
I think this card is done.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
[180 classic cube]