I agree, with the printing of Restoration Angel and Zealous Conscripts this combo is viable. Those cards combo and are used in most cubes even without the rest, Kiki, Jiki MB is solid on his own and I played pestermite to help Blue tempo so it was a two card add for me, Splinter Twin and Deceiver Exarch.
I have seen all the cards used outside of the combo and put to good use so I don't think its that much of a reach. Also splinter twin on Acidic Slime is pretty good and on Inferno titan is sick.
I think this combo is very supportable in most sized cubes, actually; each of the cards are playable on their own, and there are multiple combinations that allow infinite/near-infinite, and mainly in two colours. If you want to do combo in cube, this is the perfect illustration of how to do it properly. None of this Storm malarkey where the pieces do nothing. Even Splinter Twin, arguably the weakest piece, is pretty great if you stick it without response.
I'd love to support this, but the main issue is finding space for Kiki-Jiki and Zealous Conscripts alongside Thundermaw and Siege-Gang. I feel like even the last three, which are all fantastic, is possibly a little too many in my 320. No way I can manage four, and it's complicated by the fact that all three non-KJ five drops are amazing with him. Plus, I winston draft with 2 people mostly, so it's still risky. For a slightly larger cube with a frequent 4-6 person draft, I'd run this batch without a moment's hesitation.
I run a 450 cube and usually have 6+ drafters. Part of the reason I like this size is that there is room for some looser cards but it is still small enough to make archetypes like this work. Kiki-Jiki, Restoration Angel and Conscripts are already in. Pestermite is OK in blue tempo, and Splinter Twin could be fun with enough ETB creatures. The only one I don't like is Deceiver. And it means finding room in blue...
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I'm adding in the missing pieces in my next update. For reference that's the two blue dudes and Splinter Twin. My cube is 810 withmostly 4 drafters, so it'llbe fun to see if the combo is possible to draft. But it's ok with me if it's a rare occurence.
I have a 600 cards cube and run all six main pieces for the combo (the ones in the op). The combo was draftable in 3 of the last 4 drafts.
- The first time, I included Zealous Conscripts and Splinter Twin into my RG ramp deck and won two games with the combo.
- The second time, I had Zealous Conscripts, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Splinter Twin in a RU deck that was primarily designed to get the combo out (through lots of card draw and cards selection). I never won with the comob though, since it was always discrupted by removal or counter magic.
- During the third draft, I picked up Deceiver Exarch and saw a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker shortly thereafter, but decided against drafting the combo again, because I wanted to do something different this time.
All in all, the combo is draftable in a cube of this size and it can win, but it isn't oppressively strong, because it easy to interrupt with almost any instant removal in the cube.
The cut in 4cc red drop is chandra. It's sad because I love this card but the others are un-cutable.
For the 5cc, well, my answer will be chandra as well. I would have said SGC if you were not adding KikiJiki, but SGC and zealous conscripts become also un-cutable since this addition.
I've had the full combo assortment for awhile now - Kiki, Twin, Angel, Conscripts, Pestermite, Exarch (and recruiter, for the on-color tutor). Just be wary that the combo is actually quite powerful. The games where the combo wins are usually very non-interactive. On more than one occasion my opponent would cast something to cement board position on turn 4 or 5 and I could just combo win right there. Don't include this combo if your cube isn't well equipped to answer it; my cube tries to more or less play "fair magic" and this simply outclassed everything everyone else was doing.
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I wouldn't consider Phyrexian Metamorph a 3 mana blue creature. If I were to classify it as blue I would put in the 4 drop slot, if I were to classify it as colorless (my preference) then I'd have it at the 3 slot. I know that's way off topic but classifying it as a blue 3 drop makes so little sense to me, pet peeve sorry.
And I second MrDumpkins I'd get aether adept in there as it's too good to be on the sidelines, I think you need to look elsewhere in blue for the slots. I'd probably look at cutting whatever your least efficient finisher is since that is really what pestermite is, a finisher that just happens to cost 3 mana.
I've been testing splinter twin combo out in my cube, and I love the new dimension of true combo victory it adds. Two things I've noticed:
1) It's not quite as boring an 1 dimensional as it looks. The deck can be built in so many different ways. Last draft I managed to pull together this brew:
2) The most fun part about it is the combo-esque feeling of actually playing the deck. Racing the clock of a fast aggro strike, or trying to assemble the combo through the disruption of a control deck. It really is fun.
With the above deck I won off the following set of plays:
- Sacrifice Deceiver Exarch to Birthing Pod and get Glen Elendra
- Cast Snapcaster Mage targeting Reanimate (which was already in the graveyard)
- Cast Reanimate targeting Deceiver Exarch
- Untap Birthing Pod with Deceiver Exarch
- Sacrifice Glen Elendra to get Kiki-Jiki
- Combo off (Note that Glen Elendra persists back to counter any removal disrupting the combo)
Ive seen the combo in reveillark decks as well. Since kiki jiki, pestermite and exarch are all lark targets. The deck comes jn so many forms it's awesome. Thought it would only be U/R. But i was gladly wrong onthat account
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Ive seen the combo in reveillark decks as well. Since kiki jiki, pestermite and exarch are all lark targets. The deck comes jn so many forms it's awesome. Thought it would only be U/R. But i was gladly wrong onthat account
Recently I've seen R/B with zealous conscripts, kiki jiki, splinter twin. With tutors and reanimator spells.
When I rebuild next, I'll probably include Splinter Twin. Since there are enough twin targets that are defensible-to-good at ~450+, Twin is basically a one-card add to get an interesting combo deck in the cube. Kiki-Jiki is more than sweet enough regardless of whether he's doing this combo or just making extra avalanche riders and titans.
I won't be highly prioritizing additional twin targets on the basis of enabling the combo, though. Angel, Conscripts, and Pestermite all make the cut on their own, but Deceiver Exarch easily could be left outside looking in.
- Combo off (Note that Glen Elendra persists back to counter any removal disrupting the combo)
Note that Glen Elendra persisting doesn't stop instant-speed disruption while her persist is still on the stack. All of your combo pieces except for Kiki-Jiki are on the table before she persists back, so if they can kill your twin target at instant speed then they still buy time until you can get another twin target. Elendra-Kiki is a good pair that prevents most interaction with Kiki, though -- if you're not going off then your first counter per turn costs U and a tap of Kiki, and only your second costs your actual Archmage.
I just had the coolest story with this combo last night.
I'm playing a 4 color splinter twin combo deck with kiki jiki, mirror breaker and Deceiver Exarch in my graveyeard. I Draw Reveillark and play my 5th land for turn, and next turn I'm evoking this guy for the win. On his turn, he untaps, plays a 5th land. And out of all the cards in the cube, he plays Puppeteer Clique, he stares at my graveyard, smiles, and grabs kiki jiki, making a copy of puppeteer clique, which brinks back deceiver exarch, who untaps kiki jiki... and he combos off... from my graveyard!
In essence, splinter twin.dec can have some serious fun times. We laughed about 20 minutes. Since neither of us even thought the puppeteer clique was game when landed it
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While Lorwyn faeries are Magical-born, and that they insect-like features don't really make sense with the presence of breasts, Glen-Elendra Archamage's art have two proheminent female secondary sex characteristics.
You are of course correct, and I thank you for correcting me. I hate doing that, and so I've edited my previous post, leaving this the only monument to my shame.
While Lorwyn faeries are Magical-born, and that they insect-like features don't really make sense with the presence of breasts, Glen-Elendra Archamage's art have two proheminent female secondary sex characteristics.
I'm not sure what happened here, but I bet it was funny.
Kiki-Jiki is just a broken card. I do run a few pieces including splinter twin, but only because they are singularly good cards or have the potential for shenanigans. I'm not running cards just to support the combo.
This is my second post in the cube thread. As I've said before I'm fairly new to building cube so any suggestions, or usually obvious guidelines, are helpful and appreciated.
I have a Splinter Twin and I'm considering putting it into the cube. However, I also have Pestermite in the cube. Is even the possibility of someone being able to draft an infinite combo not really any fun in a limited environment? Is it a personal preference thing? Or is the chances of the drafting this combo so slim that it's no concern?
This is my second post in the cube thread. As I've said before I'm fairly new to building cube so any suggestions, or usually obvious guidelines, are helpful and appreciated.
I have a Splinter Twin and I'm considering putting it into the cube. However, I also have Pestermite in the cube. Is even the possibility of someone being able to draft an infinite combo not really any fun in a limited environment? Is it a personal preference thing? Or is the chances of the drafting this combo so slim that it's no concern?
Depends on the cube and what you are going for.
"Legacy" type cubes can be a lot of fun, but they typically have a large range of playable "combo" archtypes (sneak attack, re-animator, etc.).
As long as there are ample ways in the cube to disrupt the combo, it's probably fine.
But in the end that completly depends on what power level you are going for.
This is completely group-dependent. Personally I love the combo as it's the easiest one to support without using the worst of bad cards for cube slots. But there are some play groups where you might need to whip out the Johnson & Johnson no-tears after the matches. The chance of drawing the combo is a lot less slim in cube where you have abundant card draw and tutors along with 5 potential combo'd creatures (zealous conscripts, deceiver exarch, pestermite, village bell ringers, restoration angel) and 2 comboing cards (kiki jiki and splinter twin, though splinter twin doesn't work with Restoration Angel). Personally I love it, but I don't speak for everyone.
I have seen all the cards used outside of the combo and put to good use so I don't think its that much of a reach. Also splinter twin on Acidic Slime is pretty good and on Inferno titan is sick.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=221863
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I'd love to support this, but the main issue is finding space for Kiki-Jiki and Zealous Conscripts alongside Thundermaw and Siege-Gang. I feel like even the last three, which are all fantastic, is possibly a little too many in my 320. No way I can manage four, and it's complicated by the fact that all three non-KJ five drops are amazing with him. Plus, I winston draft with 2 people mostly, so it's still risky. For a slightly larger cube with a frequent 4-6 person draft, I'd run this batch without a moment's hesitation.
Anyway, all credit to the OP.
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- The first time, I included Zealous Conscripts and Splinter Twin into my RG ramp deck and won two games with the combo.
- The second time, I had Zealous Conscripts, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Splinter Twin in a RU deck that was primarily designed to get the combo out (through lots of card draw and cards selection). I never won with the comob though, since it was always discrupted by removal or counter magic.
- During the third draft, I picked up Deceiver Exarch and saw a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker shortly thereafter, but decided against drafting the combo again, because I wanted to do something different this time.
All in all, the combo is draftable in a cube of this size and it can win, but it isn't oppressively strong, because it easy to interrupt with almost any instant removal in the cube.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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For the 5cc, well, my answer will be chandra as well. I would have said SGC if you were not adding KikiJiki, but SGC and zealous conscripts become also un-cutable since this addition.
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Lol, I never thought of that, RUG and nail could make it work, especially if you have pestermite and the exarch.
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Well, the first deck that successfully included the Splinter Twin combo in my cube was a GRu ramp deck...
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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Where in the world do I put a pestermite in that?
EDIT: Get aether adept in there as well.
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And I second MrDumpkins I'd get aether adept in there as it's too good to be on the sidelines, I think you need to look elsewhere in blue for the slots. I'd probably look at cutting whatever your least efficient finisher is since that is really what pestermite is, a finisher that just happens to cost 3 mana.
1) It's not quite as boring an 1 dimensional as it looks. The deck can be built in so many different ways. Last draft I managed to pull together this brew:
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Genesis
1 Shreikmaw
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Thragtusk
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Reanimate
1 Memory Lapse
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Cultivate
1 Birthing Pod
1 Coalition Relic
1 Frantic Search
1 Memory Jar
1 Academy Ruins
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Savage Lands
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Flooded Grove
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
2) The most fun part about it is the combo-esque feeling of actually playing the deck. Racing the clock of a fast aggro strike, or trying to assemble the combo through the disruption of a control deck. It really is fun.
With the above deck I won off the following set of plays:
- Sacrifice Deceiver Exarch to Birthing Pod and get Glen Elendra
- Cast Snapcaster Mage targeting Reanimate (which was already in the graveyard)
- Cast Reanimate targeting Deceiver Exarch
- Untap Birthing Pod with Deceiver Exarch
- Sacrifice Glen Elendra to get Kiki-Jiki
- Combo off (Note that Glen Elendra persists back to counter any removal disrupting the combo)
It was pretty sweet.
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Recently I've seen R/B with zealous conscripts, kiki jiki, splinter twin. With tutors and reanimator spells.
I won't be highly prioritizing additional twin targets on the basis of enabling the combo, though. Angel, Conscripts, and Pestermite all make the cut on their own, but Deceiver Exarch easily could be left outside looking in.
Note that Glen Elendra persisting doesn't stop instant-speed disruption while her persist is still on the stack. All of your combo pieces except for Kiki-Jiki are on the table before she persists back, so if they can kill your twin target at instant speed then they still buy time until you can get another twin target. Elendra-Kiki is a good pair that prevents most interaction with Kiki, though -- if you're not going off then your first counter per turn costs U and a tap of Kiki, and only your second costs your actual Archmage.
I'm playing a 4 color splinter twin combo deck with kiki jiki, mirror breaker and Deceiver Exarch in my graveyeard. I Draw Reveillark and play my 5th land for turn, and next turn I'm evoking this guy for the win. On his turn, he untaps, plays a 5th land. And out of all the cards in the cube, he plays Puppeteer Clique, he stares at my graveyard, smiles, and grabs kiki jiki, making a copy of puppeteer clique, which brinks back deceiver exarch, who untaps kiki jiki... and he combos off... from my graveyard!
In essence, splinter twin.dec can have some serious fun times. We laughed about 20 minutes. Since neither of us even thought the puppeteer clique was game when landed it
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You are of course correct, and I thank you for correcting me. I hate doing that, and so I've edited my previous post, leaving this the only monument to my shame.
I'm not sure what happened here, but I bet it was funny.
Kiki-Jiki is just a broken card. I do run a few pieces including splinter twin, but only because they are singularly good cards or have the potential for shenanigans. I'm not running cards just to support the combo.
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I have a Splinter Twin and I'm considering putting it into the cube. However, I also have Pestermite in the cube. Is even the possibility of someone being able to draft an infinite combo not really any fun in a limited environment? Is it a personal preference thing? Or is the chances of the drafting this combo so slim that it's no concern?
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Depends on the cube and what you are going for.
"Legacy" type cubes can be a lot of fun, but they typically have a large range of playable "combo" archtypes (sneak attack, re-animator, etc.).
As long as there are ample ways in the cube to disrupt the combo, it's probably fine.
But in the end that completly depends on what power level you are going for.
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