Could I get some feedback on steam augury's performance? every time i think about it, the reason FoF is so great is because you can pick what you need when you're desperate, or the CA if you're not. it seems like steam augury only ever lets you pick the CA option (unless your opponent makes bad piles, which is unlikely). does it merit a high spot in izzet only because the competition is so bad?
I'm going to start with the assumption that Fact or Fiction is absolutely amazing. If you don't agree, the rest of my reasoning won't make sense. So, we are taking an already amazing card and changing two parameters. One is the mana cost. It's not changing the CC, just adding a color. That brings it down a bit, but that's still great. Next, we are switching who makes the piles and who chooses them. This seems like a downgrade, and a lot of time it will be. However, you get to sculpt the piles how you like them based on the board state and your hand. You can separate two win conditions so you get one of them. Separate a fatty and the reanimation spell so you get one or the other. Separate the two red mana sources so you guarantee getting one of them. Etc. Sometimes it will be better that you get to make the piles.
Steam Augury is weaker than FoF. That's absolutely true. But: it's not much weaker, sometimes it will be stronger, and we are talking about a slightly weaker version of one of blue's top 10 cards. That's plenty good enough. It's solidly the #2 Izzet card.
I concur with Rant. Steam Augury in testing has been very good. Only once or twice was I truly disappointed with what I ended up with. Often times, it's literally a no win situation for your opponent - they either give you a silver bullet or 2-3 really solid cards (and sometimes it doesn't matter because you have ways to play from your GY).
It really helps that it's an instant too. In fact, I probably wouldn't cube with it as a sorcery.
I love Steam Augury. The [SCD] for it has great discussion about why. But basically, there's a lot of value in sculpting your own piles. It's worse for digging for a specific out, but it's better at getting multiple cards that improve the overall quality of your hand.
I agree that FoF is unreal. I get that Steam Augury is a watered down version of FoF. But just wondering, in what situation would Steam augury ever be better than FoF @rant?
From my testing, Steam Augury was very rarely better than FOF. The only times I found were very situational - where you could put a mountain with a red card and you needed the mountain to cast it, or you knew you had snap caster but your opponent didn't, so you baited them into giving you the pile with a creature so the spells went into your yard (giving you access to both piles in essence).
Again, this was rare and Steam Augury is probably a harder card to use than FOF. But it doesn't need to be on par with it to get slot in the cube IMO. FOF is borderline uncuttable. It's that good. Steam Augury is just really solid and it plays very nice with the color combination.
I agree that FoF is unreal. I get that Steam Augury is a watered down version of FoF. But just wondering, in what situation would Steam augury ever be better than FoF @rant?
I agree that FoF is unreal. I get that Steam Augury is a watered down version of FoF. But just wondering, in what situation would Steam augury ever be better than FoF @rant?
This is covered in the Steam Augury thread. But basically, you are in control of the split. So lets say for example that you have 2 islands, 1 mountain and a mutavault in play when you cast one of the two spells. You flip a thundermaw, a cryptic command, a island, a mountain and a 5th random card. You can pair the 3rd island with the command and the 2nd mountain with the thundermaw, so no matter which pile they give you, you can use the land and the spell together. When they split the pile, you're gonna have to take one of the two bomb spells, but it won't be paired with the mana needed to cast it.
There are lots of situations where being in control of the split is a big deal. That's just one example.
I really think you should test it hawkeye. It plays surprisingly well. I actually liked it better than FOF in my counterburn deck because I felt like I had more control and could almost always manipulate things in my favor. Again, it's amazingly good with snapcaster because any burn pitched to the yard is technically playable. It might as well have gone to your hand.
Izzet has certainly gone from a guild I used to struggle to fill, to one where I have to make uncomfortable cuts.
Steam Augury is top four material for me. I can't say it is necessarily better than some of the alternatives in terms of sheer power, but it gets bonus points for creating a fun mini game against your opponent.
Fire // Ice constantly surprises me how useful the Ice side is. Whether it is cutting off mana, tapping a blocker, preventing an attack... It always seems to rear it's head at a crucial stage of the game AND it draws a card.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I've settled recently on Ral, Izzet Charm and Steam Augury as my trio. The latter two are fine but not bullet-proof. Prophetic Bolt is pretty much as good as SA in most departments, but the swap to a newer card keeps the cube feeling fresh. Ral is just what we wanted, and he's probably the first Izzet home run as far as cube is concerned. This is another pair where a strong God card could be an easy inclusion for us.
Izzet has certainly gone from a guild I used to struggle to fill, to one where I have to make uncomfortable cuts.
Steam Augury is top four material for me. I can't say it is necessarily better than some of the alternatives in terms of sheer power, but it gets bonus points for creating a fun mini game against your opponent.
Fire // Ice constantly surprises me how useful the Ice side is. Whether it is cutting off mana, tapping a blocker, preventing an attack... It always seems to rear it's head at a crucial stage of the game AND it draws a card.
Amen to this. I still love Fire//Ice and I find a lot of uses for Ice as well. And I think the guild went from being one of the worst to a very solid competitor over a short period of time.
I would switch Izzet Charm and Fire/ice, but really they are really close. I think probably more right to put = sign there, and run depending on what you want.
It shocks me that 3/3 card I'm running for Izzet come from the past 2 years. Similar with Azorius, it's 3/3 if you look at the past 2 years as well (and maybe a bit over 2 years for that one).
I would suggest that use of "unfair" in this case doesn't mean that it is "broken", but instead that it provides an inordinate amount of card advantage for its cost (similar to Murderous Redcap). Spending one card to get three cards' worth of value (two creatures and a cantrip) would be unfair by this definition.
If they happen to have multiple 1-toughness guys out, it's great. But the majority of the time, it's 2-for-1 burn, and I get plenty of that in red's 3cc burn spells without paying a gold casting cost to get it. It's a solid card, but it's far from doing anything unfair most of the time.
So the top 5 or 6 of this guild are pretty much determined, but what about the next few slots? We're talking for the 720-900 folks here. I've seen all of these and am currently testing Chemister (has done well so far) and Wand of the Elements (not so much) in my 720.
Nucklavee is surprisingly solid. It is usually a 3 for 1. The body you get could be better, but getting more use out of cards you casted is a really powerful effect and one Izzet can easily exploit. Plus he's hybrid, so if you are cool with a 2 for 1 at 6 mana, he goes in all flavors of Ux and Rx control.
Nucklavee is surprisingly solid. It is usually a 3 for 1. The body you get could be better, but getting more use out of cards you casted is a really powerful effect and one Izzet can easily exploit. Plus he's hybrid, so if you are cool with a 2 for 1 at 6 mana, he goes in all flavors of Ux and Rx control.
I know we have different environments but Nucklavee was godawful in my cube. It rarely grabbed two spells and I expect more for 6 mana in cube.
I know we have different environments but Nucklavee was godawful in my cube. It rarely grabbed two spells and I expect more for 6 mana in cube.
Cheers,
rant
To be fair, I had it in my cube only during my testing phases so it never actually saw play with the group. But it was better than I expected it to be during my testing. With hybrids moving to the mono colored sections, he could come back possibly. But I doubt it as I like all my 6 mana choices in blue/red better.
I'm going to start with the assumption that Fact or Fiction is absolutely amazing. If you don't agree, the rest of my reasoning won't make sense. So, we are taking an already amazing card and changing two parameters. One is the mana cost. It's not changing the CC, just adding a color. That brings it down a bit, but that's still great. Next, we are switching who makes the piles and who chooses them. This seems like a downgrade, and a lot of time it will be. However, you get to sculpt the piles how you like them based on the board state and your hand. You can separate two win conditions so you get one of them. Separate a fatty and the reanimation spell so you get one or the other. Separate the two red mana sources so you guarantee getting one of them. Etc. Sometimes it will be better that you get to make the piles.
Steam Augury is weaker than FoF. That's absolutely true. But: it's not much weaker, sometimes it will be stronger, and we are talking about a slightly weaker version of one of blue's top 10 cards. That's plenty good enough. It's solidly the #2 Izzet card.
Cheers,
rant
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It really helps that it's an instant too. In fact, I probably wouldn't cube with it as a sorcery.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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Again, this was rare and Steam Augury is probably a harder card to use than FOF. But it doesn't need to be on par with it to get slot in the cube IMO. FOF is borderline uncuttable. It's that good. Steam Augury is just really solid and it plays very nice with the color combination.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
It gives you the ability to bluff.
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This is covered in the Steam Augury thread. But basically, you are in control of the split. So lets say for example that you have 2 islands, 1 mountain and a mutavault in play when you cast one of the two spells. You flip a thundermaw, a cryptic command, a island, a mountain and a 5th random card. You can pair the 3rd island with the command and the 2nd mountain with the thundermaw, so no matter which pile they give you, you can use the land and the spell together. When they split the pile, you're gonna have to take one of the two bomb spells, but it won't be paired with the mana needed to cast it.
There are lots of situations where being in control of the split is a big deal. That's just one example.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Steam Augury is top four material for me. I can't say it is necessarily better than some of the alternatives in terms of sheer power, but it gets bonus points for creating a fun mini game against your opponent.
Fire // Ice constantly surprises me how useful the Ice side is. Whether it is cutting off mana, tapping a blocker, preventing an attack... It always seems to rear it's head at a crucial stage of the game AND it draws a card.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Amen to this. I still love Fire//Ice and I find a lot of uses for Ice as well. And I think the guild went from being one of the worst to a very solid competitor over a short period of time.
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Ral Zarek >> Steam Augury > Fire // Ice ≥ Izzet Charm >> Electrolyze = Prophetic Bolt > Turn // Burn.
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Agree with this. Izzet Charm and Fire/Ice are really close.
Cheers,
rant
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It shocks me that 3/3 card I'm running for Izzet come from the past 2 years. Similar with Azorius, it's 3/3 if you look at the past 2 years as well (and maybe a bit over 2 years for that one).
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I know we have different environments but Nucklavee was godawful in my cube. It rarely grabbed two spells and I expect more for 6 mana in cube.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
To be fair, I had it in my cube only during my testing phases so it never actually saw play with the group. But it was better than I expected it to be during my testing. With hybrids moving to the mono colored sections, he could come back possibly. But I doubt it as I like all my 6 mana choices in blue/red better.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/