When you support green aggro, Golgari aggro decks crop up and are pretty successful (although I think Gruul aggro is usually stronger). We also see Golgari midrange with recursion elements and BUG reanimator. You can build a really powerful Golgari deck without Rec Sur, as long as you draft recursion elements, resilient creatures, and disruption.
G/B is a perfect midrange combo but any deck is really possible with this combination. Even G/B 'goodstuff' is formidable.
I was bored the other night and tried to figure out what are the key cards in making G/B midrange compete with decks that go over the top of it.
The following is a collection of my thoughts.. A mini primer of sorts.
G/B Midrange
The gameplan of the deck is to ramp to game winning fatties, reanimate your fatties early, or win via recurring nightmare value... Disrupting your opponents gameplan is also very important.
Key components of the deck:
1. Discard spells,
Your game winning bombs are not as potent as your opponents game winnings bombs...
Your value creatures often provide 2 for 1's, but when they are casting cards like Jace the Mind-sculptor and Stoneforge mystic, upheavel, entreat the angels..
You cannot compete with a lot of decks in the long game. You need to disrupt their gameplan before you execute yours.
Thankfully that's what black does best.
2. A variety of recurrable value creatures that provide different functions. Because the deck isn't very fast on average (this isnt a deck loaded with 8 mana creatures, discard outlets and reanimation spells). You need to be able to answer the variety of threats that cube can present. Thankfully G/B has all sorts of answers.
3. A few big creatures that win the game by themselves. Those creatures ideally should be a decent reanimation targets, but are also hardcastable. My favourite creatures for this archetype are the titans.
Here is a ranking list of (non-powered) cards that are amazing for the deck, and also do not have many redundant replacements: (IE draft them highly)
1. Recurring Nightmare
2. Demonic Tutor
3. Liliana of the Veil
4. Hymn to Tourach
5. Thoughtseize
6. Eternal Witness
7. Duress
8. Thragtusk
9. Shreikmaw
10. Grave Titan
11. Profane Command (Insane with lots of utility creatures in graveyard + ramp)
12. Lotleth Troll (assuming you have some reanimation spells)
13. Maelstrom Pulse
14. Wild Mongrol
15. Shadowborn demon
The deck NEEDS early, ideally creature based, ramp spells, but there are quite a few cards that can fill those rolls.
I'd argue it needs at least 5/7 of the top 7 to be 3-0 material. Especially recurring nightmare.
WITH recurring nightmare, hymn to tourach and thoughtseize.. Eternal witness becomes one of the best cards in the deck.
I often get into this archtype when I see an early recurring nightmare..
Early in the draft prioritize things like thoughtseize, liliana , duress over discard outlets , poor reanimation spells and 8 mana+ fatties.
If more reanimation spells come, or they wheel.. I go all in with reanimator. If they don't. I try to draft value-rock.
Golgari can go a number of routes in our cube. It may be reanimator, often with ramp elements as an alternative way to cast the fatties. It may be a value midrange deck, and I've recently seen it paired with Pox-type cards to grind out advantage. And I've seen it played as an aggro deck. Those three approaches are of decreasing effectiveness in my cube. Ramp/reanimator has certainly gone 3-0 a few times, midrange often posts a positive score, but aggro is not often played and I think people end up in it rather than look to draft it from the outset.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I would surely not jump on Wild Mongrel or Lotleth Troll when drafting BG Midrange. Wall of Blossoms can be mentionned, especially since you already include Recurring Nightmare. Same for Nekrataal or Skinrender, which are key cards for the archetype (imo way above Shadowborn Demon).
Totally agreed. I think Troll and Mongrel are great, but I wouldn't draft them nearly as highly as Nekrataal, Skinrender, and Bone Shredder. I like these more than Shadowborn outside of the Nightmare deck (in which the demon fits really nicely).
Also, Pernicious Deed is a high pick in this deck, especially if you grabbed a planeswalker or two or some regenerators/persisters/undyers.
I want to bump this thread. I think lots of people are running Deed, Decay, and Pulse as their top 3. Deathrite Shaman and Lotleth Troll seem to be in the tier after those. But today I found that I had a Meren of Clan Nel Toth, and I was thinking about putting that plus Lotleth Troll in for fun and support for Pox. Can we talk about how all these cards rank these days?
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Deed and Pulse get in on raw power as they're among the best boardwipes, and spot removal spells ever printed. Shaman gets in for having so much versatility as a 1-drop utility creature. Troll and Life // Death get in as Golgari's one of the premier color pairs for reanimation, and they're excellent roleplayers for that archetype. I allow each color pair an extra slot or two for hybrids and split cards, so Life // Death gets in as a 5th card that way.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
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One thought I've had about multicolor sections when there is a legitimate choice between options is that maybe a familiar legendary creature should get in over other options. Much of my group are primarily EDH players, and something like Brago, Edric, Meren, etc gives them a direction they're familiar with. Plus Meren + Lotleth Troll seems like sweet support for the grindiest of recursive decks.
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I don't think they compete for top slots. Deed is nutz, Pulse is great, and Decay is so efficient. I like Shaman more than most other options right now, since it's flexible and cheap. After those 4, Life // Death is a nice extra reanimation spell, and Troll is a decent enabler for those kinds of decks. Meren would fall behind those options.
Agree with wtwlf on this topic. I'd probably run Lotleth Troll and Life // Death over Decay just because they support decks instead of just being efficient removal.
As much as I love Lotleth Troll, I retired it this year since we got Heir of Falkenrath / Noose Constrictor in black and green. This allowed me to re-add Abrupt Decay, which has gotten better with all the good 3-cmc planeswalkers we've been getting, not to mention Origins flipwalkers.
My current Golgari configuration at 540 is Deed, Pulse, Decay, and Life // Death. I like Life // Death over Shaman to support Reanimator. Also, a lot of people complain about dedicating a bunch of Golgari slots, which I don't see why that's a problem. There arent any really any multicolor build around / archetype enablers. I see multicolored cards as something you can wheel early / strong late picks.
There arent any really any multicolor build around / archetype enablers. I see multicolored cards as something you can wheel early / strong late picks.
See, that's what I'm saying though: Meren enables, or at least strengthens, an archetype.
I'm going to test it out and see what happens.
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Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
You can only enable a deck if you are worth playing as a card. Meren is too underpowered, slow, and durdly to make any impact and just sits in the sideboard while more efficient stuff wins games. I ran it for a long time and was not impressed with it at all.
I'd probably put Meren above Life // Death just because I'd prefer to have that type of graveyard enabler than another reanimation spell. I kind of hate that Golgari's top three are just solid removal spells, but that's a pretty big first world problem. My top four are the removals plus Shaman. For number five I'm currently running Garruk, Apex Predator, but I think this slot is very debatable. I think the four and five slots could be any combination of what's best for your cube and the archetypes/decks you want to support. You could be running Troll in the number four slot and The Gitrog Monster in the number five slot to try to help enable that type of deck. There's really a lot of possible options for configuration in Golgari after the top three, imo.
I think Meren is just more of a value engine than an archetype enabler. In my experience, her value mostly lied in BG Stax builds. While I did like Meren and was very excited to play her, she was a step too slow for my cube. Her big saving grace at the time was that black was short a 4-drop, but that all changed two months later when Kalitas was printed.
I can see people playing her over Life // Death or some of the other mid-tier Golgari options. I'm a reanimation junkie, plus Life is by far the most comical win condition in Cube, IMO.
G/B is a perfect midrange combo but any deck is really possible with this combination. Even G/B 'goodstuff' is formidable.
This would be my top 6 as well.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
The following is a collection of my thoughts.. A mini primer of sorts.
G/B Midrange
The gameplan of the deck is to ramp to game winning fatties, reanimate your fatties early, or win via recurring nightmare value... Disrupting your opponents gameplan is also very important.
Key components of the deck:
1. Discard spells,
Your game winning bombs are not as potent as your opponents game winnings bombs...
Your value creatures often provide 2 for 1's, but when they are casting cards like Jace the Mind-sculptor and Stoneforge mystic, upheavel, entreat the angels..
You cannot compete with a lot of decks in the long game. You need to disrupt their gameplan before you execute yours.
Thankfully that's what black does best.
2. A variety of recurrable value creatures that provide different functions. Because the deck isn't very fast on average (this isnt a deck loaded with 8 mana creatures, discard outlets and reanimation spells). You need to be able to answer the variety of threats that cube can present. Thankfully G/B has all sorts of answers.
3. A few big creatures that win the game by themselves. Those creatures ideally should be a decent reanimation targets, but are also hardcastable. My favourite creatures for this archetype are the titans.
Here is a ranking list of (non-powered) cards that are amazing for the deck, and also do not have many redundant replacements: (IE draft them highly)
1. Recurring Nightmare
2. Demonic Tutor
3. Liliana of the Veil
4. Hymn to Tourach
5. Thoughtseize
6. Eternal Witness
7. Duress
8. Thragtusk
9. Shreikmaw
10. Grave Titan
11. Profane Command (Insane with lots of utility creatures in graveyard + ramp)
12. Lotleth Troll (assuming you have some reanimation spells)
13. Maelstrom Pulse
14. Wild Mongrol
15. Shadowborn demon
The deck NEEDS early, ideally creature based, ramp spells, but there are quite a few cards that can fill those rolls.
I'd argue it needs at least 5/7 of the top 7 to be 3-0 material. Especially recurring nightmare.
WITH recurring nightmare, hymn to tourach and thoughtseize.. Eternal witness becomes one of the best cards in the deck.
I often get into this archtype when I see an early recurring nightmare..
Early in the draft prioritize things like thoughtseize, liliana , duress over discard outlets , poor reanimation spells and 8 mana+ fatties.
If more reanimation spells come, or they wheel.. I go all in with reanimator. If they don't. I try to draft value-rock.
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Totally agreed. I think Troll and Mongrel are great, but I wouldn't draft them nearly as highly as Nekrataal, Skinrender, and Bone Shredder. I like these more than Shadowborn outside of the Nightmare deck (in which the demon fits really nicely).
Also, Pernicious Deed is a high pick in this deck, especially if you grabbed a planeswalker or two or some regenerators/persisters/undyers.
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Pernicious Deed
Maelstrom Pulse
Deathrite Shaman
Lotleth Troll
Life // Death
Deed and Pulse get in on raw power as they're among the best boardwipes, and spot removal spells ever printed. Shaman gets in for having so much versatility as a 1-drop utility creature. Troll and Life // Death get in as Golgari's one of the premier color pairs for reanimation, and they're excellent roleplayers for that archetype. I allow each color pair an extra slot or two for hybrids and split cards, so Life // Death gets in as a 5th card that way.
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We haven't come far from this. Imo there's still only 2 good Golgari cube cards.
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StaffMy current Golgari configuration at 540 is Deed, Pulse, Decay, and Life // Death. I like Life // Death over Shaman to support Reanimator. Also, a lot of people complain about dedicating a bunch of Golgari slots, which I don't see why that's a problem. There arent any really any multicolor build around / archetype enablers. I see multicolored cards as something you can wheel early / strong late picks.
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See, that's what I'm saying though: Meren enables, or at least strengthens, an archetype.
I'm going to test it out and see what happens.
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Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
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StaffI can see people playing her over Life // Death or some of the other mid-tier Golgari options. I'm a reanimation junkie, plus Life is by far the most comical win condition in Cube, IMO.
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