I mentioned Precinct Captain but I forgot to say that we like Nearheath Pilgrim better than the other lifegain creatures anyway (Lone Missionary, etc). So another good consideration.
GK, I think you endorsed Xathrid along time ago, and that was part of what convinced us to try him (when we moved to Humans=Rebels for Lin Sivvi). Its quite a good card although we're not really in love with some of the humans in Black.
I mentioned Precinct Captain but I forgot to say that we like Nearheath Pilgrim better than the other lifegain creatures anyway (Lone Missionary, etc). So another good consideration.
GK, I think you endorsed Xathrid along time ago, and that was part of what convinced us to try him (when we moved to Humans=Rebels for Lin Sivvi). Its quite a good card although we're not really in love with some of the humans in Black.
Eh, it can't have been too long ago - I've only been running it for a couple of months. The humans in black are very good but sadly not that plentiful, so XN definitely needs a white or red splash or main to be really worthwhile. That wouldn't be enough to run him for us on its own, but actually our black midrange decks also appreciate a recursive 2/2 for Stax/Braids shenanigans (in its absolute worst case), and any sort of recursive creature is great versus a burn spell, wrath or mass removal. If you can get a single extra trigger, that's really very good value.
It will only improve as the number of Humans is sure to increase, with that creature type being in every block.
Champion is great for us, it was even in my power rankings top 20 because it's the best white 1-drop beater you can first pick for an aggro deck in our cube.
The card was really bad for us. Outside of WR, there was almost no way to have him swing for 2 on T2 in the average deck (I have like 3 2cc white humans in the entire cube I think). He floated around as a 1/1 until turn 3 or 4 and beyond, and that just didn't come close to hacking it.
Much like my love for Carrion Feeder I find this guy so better than just another Lion. 1 toughness is a real liability with most aggro 1 drops. What the caluclations dont take into account is games where I dont have a human 2 drop but I have a Lion or something to play on 1 with a human on 3.
There are also the games where I curve humans out to turn 4.
So while I agree that the 'Average' cube will will get more consistency with something else, there is bigger upside from the champion. Also what are 450 cubers replacing this with? Above 360 you need all the 2 power white one drops and Champion (IMHO).
Dont forget other awesome humans like Snapcaster, Noble Hierarch, Avacyn's Pilgrim, and Expiriment 1
Anybody add Champion of the Parish since FRF? I have but have not seen him in action yet. FRF has a lot of good humans; including Mardu Woe-Reaper and Monastery Grand Master in the 1-2 cc white slot.
I have played with him a decent amount on the recent MODO legacy cube to mixed results. The best decks were when I had 8+ humans including Gather the Townsfolk. 7 other humans is OK but risky, and less than that he floats around as a 1/1 too much. Unfortunately, getting less than 7 humans happens enough to make him a suck-bag, as any time you can't trigger him at least once he ends up being the worst card in your deck by a large margin. For a pro, he is really good with Bloodsoaked Champion, as it allows you to trigger over and over again. But I'm enough disappointed with his overall performance and residency in sideboards that I don't think I would include him in my unpowered cube at this point.
He's been good for us, on average. Sometimes it doesn't grow at all, but it's a 2/2 or 3/3 reasonably often. A 4/4 one time which was nice. If you have some equipment in your deck, you can mitigate the times where you don't curve into any other Humans by making it relevant that way. If I am a bit low on Humans and had little equipment, it gets cut from the final 40, but I like the random tribal synergy enough to keep it over many other options. FRF is certainly a big boost to it.
There have been quite a few additional humans added to the cube since the last time I tested this guy. I may re-run the numbers soon and see if I can reliably get him to do his thing during an average draft.
There's a good enough concentration of humans in 360 to warrant his inclusion there especially with FRF (can't comment on larger lists). I had him at #8 on Colby's list for top 1cc white creatures.
After the first test this weekend, Champion of the Parish did really well in a deck with 5 other humans with CMC1-2. It will stay for 3-4 other cube sessions before I draw a conclusion. He looks pretty good so far. If DTK has more humans to include, he is going to stay for a long time.
On the other hand Stromkirk Noble went up in power by a wide margin. It's quasi-unblockable against decks that play a combination of White, Black and Red and gets to 3/3 without any problems.
When I was looking for another white 1-drop, I gave Champion of the Parish a try. Sometimes, he'll end up in a deck where he makes a good Isamaru impression, sometimes we won't make the maindeck due to a low human count. His best showing was a game where he became a 4/4 on turn 4. It's a bit weird to have an aggro 1-drop that you kinda have to build around, but it is not too hard to make him work.
Btw, I went up to almost 70 humans out of 600 cards after the FRF update. This means that almost every fourth creature in my cube is a human now.
Now I just need to convince people to take another look at the Mayor of Avabruk
We played mayor for so long, and it was never good, and even with a humans package the deck wants to be BW or RW most of the time.
On champion, he is one of those cards that just hasn't been able to shine for us yet. I drafted a great BW humans deck a couple months ago that made it to the finals, but I literally never had champion in my opening hand. He was decent in a Boros aggro deck a few weeks ago IIRC. Given how many of BW's (and now some red) agressive creatures are now randomly human, I certainly think he's testable in 450+ cubes that support both white and black aggro.
Glad a lot of people seemed to have hopped on board with Champion. I've been running him since last year, and he's been great. It takes very little for him to be a 2/2 in most aggro decks, and he can grow to be even better in the midgame which is exactly what aggro decks need.
Now I just need to convince people to take another look at the Mayor of Avabruk
We played mayor for so long, and it was never good, and even with a humans package the deck wants to be BW or RW most of the time.
White and red should have the highest amount of humans in most cubes, but in my cube, green is the next best color for that tribe. It has slightly more humans than black and a human-centric WG deck seems more likely than a WB one.
Now I just need to convince people to take another look at the Mayor of Avabruk
We played mayor for so long, and it was never good, and even with a humans package the deck wants to be BW or RW most of the time.
White and red should have the highest amount of humans in most cubes, but in my cube, green is the next best color for that tribe. It has slightly more humans than black and a human-centric WG deck seems more likely than a WB one.
Yeah, looks like you're right and our cube is tied at 6 for black and green, and more for red, but I always think of black for the main color because we added Xathrid Necromancer specifically to support humans.
GK, I think you endorsed Xathrid along time ago, and that was part of what convinced us to try him (when we moved to Humans=Rebels for Lin Sivvi). Its quite a good card although we're not really in love with some of the humans in Black.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Eh, it can't have been too long ago - I've only been running it for a couple of months. The humans in black are very good but sadly not that plentiful, so XN definitely needs a white or red splash or main to be really worthwhile. That wouldn't be enough to run him for us on its own, but actually our black midrange decks also appreciate a recursive 2/2 for Stax/Braids shenanigans (in its absolute worst case), and any sort of recursive creature is great versus a burn spell, wrath or mass removal. If you can get a single extra trigger, that's really very good value.
It will only improve as the number of Humans is sure to increase, with that creature type being in every block.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
How many humans (other than Champion) have to be in your deck for you to consider using him? (specifically 1 or 2 CMC humans)
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Add Mayor of Avabruck or Adaptive Automaton for extra fun and value.
Champion is great for us, it was even in my power rankings top 20 because it's the best white 1-drop beater you can first pick for an aggro deck in our cube.
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There are also the games where I curve humans out to turn 4.
So while I agree that the 'Average' cube will will get more consistency with something else, there is bigger upside from the champion. Also what are 450 cubers replacing this with? Above 360 you need all the 2 power white one drops and Champion (IMHO).
Dont forget other awesome humans like Snapcaster, Noble Hierarch, Avacyn's Pilgrim, and Expiriment 1
Anyone have any recent success with him?
EDIT: I can't count. It's 53.
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You could give him a try and report back to us how he does at 450 with 63 humans + him.
I think there are plenty of people around that have a renewed interest in this guy.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Well, I'll take one for the team. Ordered Champion of the Parish 10 minutes ago.
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You, sir, are the true champion
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On the other hand Stromkirk Noble went up in power by a wide margin. It's quasi-unblockable against decks that play a combination of White, Black and Red and gets to 3/3 without any problems.
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Btw, I went up to almost 70 humans out of 600 cards after the FRF update. This means that almost every fourth creature in my cube is a human now.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
One thing I like about Champion is that sometimes late game (when a 2/1 normally be worthless) it can grow to useful size.
Now I just need to convince people to take another look at the Mayor of Avabruk
We played mayor for so long, and it was never good, and even with a humans package the deck wants to be BW or RW most of the time.
On champion, he is one of those cards that just hasn't been able to shine for us yet. I drafted a great BW humans deck a couple months ago that made it to the finals, but I literally never had champion in my opening hand. He was decent in a Boros aggro deck a few weeks ago IIRC. Given how many of BW's (and now some red) agressive creatures are now randomly human, I certainly think he's testable in 450+ cubes that support both white and black aggro.
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
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My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Yeah, looks like you're right and our cube is tied at 6 for black and green, and more for red, but I always think of black for the main color because we added Xathrid Necromancer specifically to support humans.
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