Swords/Jitte are so powerful that sometimes you win if and only if you draw them. If they're that critical to winning (and I think they often are), why are our only white ways to get them Stoneforge Mystic and Enlightened Tutor?
It's clearly no Stoneforge, in that it doesn't help get the target into play or provide a body. But if all you need is that one busted equipment, it's much better than Enlightened Tutor. Steelshaper's Gift has been key in equipment based Modern decks (specifically, metalcraft aggro) this season.
- Grab a protection sword against their color
- Snag that Jitte and just win
- Search for skullclamp and start drawing cards with Emeria Angel (etc.)
- Block and Attack (Batterskull, Bonehoard)
- Ping an opposing Dark Confidant with your Mortarpod.
The ability to tutor up a specific card type is okay, but it's usually not worth a card. It is on Stoneforge Mystic because it's strapped to a body and generates card advantage. Enlightened Tutor is good because it has a plethora of targets, including grabbing a lot of clutch enchantments, and artifact creatures as win-cons. Including a 1-for-1 tutor that can only grab like 10 cards is too narrow for my tastes.
I agree with wtwlf. The other type-specific tutors (Worldly Tutor, Mystical Tutor, E. Tutor and Tinker) all provide flexibility thanks to the number of targets a cube allows. The relative scarcity of equipment and their high pick value in drafts greatly restricts the flexibility of equipment tutors, which is generally not why these tutors see play anyway. I would play Stoneforge Mystic and one equipment in a deck. I don't think I'd play Steelshaper's Gift and one equipment in a deck. The Mystic leaves behind a 1/2 with a bonus, which is a big part of its relevance. The Gift just becomes a dead card. An equipment that comes with its own sword-carrier is insane because of its 2-for-1 nature - your opponent now needs an answer for the creature as well as the equipment, which requires them to go down a card compared to the extra card that Mystic just gave you.
Depends on the type of cube you are talking about and its size. A 360 powered cube would probably never come near that card, but an interesting 540 modern cube would love something like that, especially depending on the composition of the cube.
The truth is, this card will keep getting better and better as the years roll around and design around the equipment subtype matures (living weapons was a big leap and shows just the kind of design space that equipment allows).
Mystic is powerful because it
- searches for an equipment
- already provides a body you can equip (card advantage)
- mana cost reduction of equipment (does not matter much except for Batterskull)
The mana cost reduction can matter a lot, actually. Even if it's just for a sword, the cost reduction offers you new lines of play when you have more mana. And that's on top of making your equipment uncounterable and invulnerable to sorcery-speed removal with an end-of-turn activation. All things which Steelshaper's Gift also doesn't do.
Comparing this to Stoneforge & Enlightened Tutor isn't very fair, it's like comparing a draw spell to Ancestral Recall. Of course it's going to be worse. That said this is a narrow card but I can definitely see some decks that would want to run it. I think it's best in the 500-600 range where you still have enough equipment density but the competition isn't as stiff as the smaller cubes.
I think Steelshaper's Gift is at least a little better than people are giving it credit for. I also would happily play it in any deck that ran at least one great piece of equipment. I don't think it's for many cubes though because it's so much more parasitic and reliant on specific cards than many people would be comfortable with.
If it was "Search for an artifact" I think it would be a really strong contender. I think restricting it to equipment limits it too much and I suspect it would be a near-last pick quite often.
If it is a sufficiently equipment-dense cube, then I could see this getting in there, but it would have to boot something that is quasi-staple in order to do it. Otherwise, you're running extra medicre equipments or your cube is no longer equipment-dense enough to justify it. IT needs to not be a hyper-narrow enabler.
IMO, what you want to avoid is putting this in an really ever having a scenario where it appears in pack 2 and there are only 3 pieces of equipment in the draft thus far. Those pieces of equipment are held by decks that are already firmly nonwhite or whose fundamental plan is strong enough that finding their piece of equipment in a timely fashion isn't worth running this card. It tables around repeatedly before being someone's screw card.
Mystic and Tutor are terrible comparisons for this card. Steelshaper's Gift is basically Green Sun's Zenith for equipment. If I am running a Jitte, Clamp, or Sword, this allows me to play another copy at +1 cost. If they reprinted Jitte at 3 or clamp at 2, would you run it? I know I sure would.
I can't imagine many white decks where I am running more than one piece of equipment where Steelshaper's Gift wouldn't make my final 23.
That's just the thing though. I need to have 2+ pieces of equipment for me to consider it. I only have 10 pieces of equipment in the entire cube, and they're all highly competed over. In any situation where I don't have 2 or more, I can't use the card. That's too narrow for me.
That's just the thing though. I need to have 2+ pieces of equipment for me to consider it. I only have 10 pieces of equipment in the entire cube, and they're all highly competed over. In any situation where I don't have 2 or more, I can't use the card. That's too narrow for me.
That's just the thing though. I need to have 2+ pieces of equipment for me to consider it. I only have 10 pieces of equipment in the entire cube, and they're all highly competed over. In any situation where I don't have 2 or more, I can't use the card. That's too narrow for me.
This is indeed the question. But 10 out of a 360 means that if 5/8 decks can use equipment, they will all end up with an average of 2. It may not work out that way, but those numbers aren't as bad as they seem.
This is indeed the question. But 10 out of a 360 means that if 5/8 decks can use equipment, they will all end up with an average of 2. It may not work out that way, but those numbers aren't as bad as they seem.
Assuming you're playing a format where every card in the cube is being used (which is rare here) and that there's 3 decks at the table that don't want any equipment at all. Those are both pretty unreliable estimations for my cube.
Assuming you're playing a format where every card in the cube is being used (which is rare here) and that there's 3 decks at the table that don't want any equipment at all. Those are both pretty unreliable estimations for my cube.
It actually doesn't matter how many people are playing, the percentage stays the same. Assuming a 45 card pool per player, there are 1.25 pieces of equipment per player in your cube. Getting a hold of two for a white equipment deck really shouldn't be that difficult.
Assuming you're playing a format where every card in the cube is being used (which is rare here) and that there's 3 decks at the table that don't want any equipment at all. Those are both pretty unreliable estimations for my cube.
But not too unreliable for cubes that run 8 man drafts. I would like to assume we're talking about 8 man drafts when discussing cube unless something else is specified. It may not be the most common on these boards but it certainly is the case for many of us as well as everyone that plays MTGO cube.
EDIT: I do agree this card loses value in 2 man formats, everyone wants to play equipment in those formats so the competition for it is fierce.
It actually doesn't matter how many people are playing, the percentage stays the same. Assuming a 45 card pool per player, there are 1.25 pieces of equipment per player in your cube. Getting a hold of two for a white equipment deck really shouldn't be that difficult.
But the reliability is gone. On average, there can be 1.25 per player. But there could only be 3 in the pool, or 7. Unlike something like Enlightened Tutor, getting enough targets in the same pool/deck isn't reliable.
And that doesn't factor in Winston or Sealed either, which makes the results even more random.
I was watching the replays of various finals in MTGO cube matches yesterday (a fascinating endeavor), and what I saw was that basically no white decks won without playing either Armageddon or a busted equipment (esp. jitte/sword of X+Y).
Based on this, there's nothing I want more in my white decks than the ability to do those two things regularly. I think that the cards are just that powerful (and yes, I'd likely try to splash blue for mystical tutor so I could reliably cast Geddon). Were I unable to pick up Stoneforge, I would happily run this card in any white-based deck so long as I had one of the 6 most busted equipment (5 swords, jitte), and w/ Skullclamp and Batterskull in certain decks as well. If I had Stoneforge in my deck, I would probably not run Gift at all.
I don't think this is a 360 card, because there are relatively few people that want Stoneforge (2 or 3, probably). But I don't think you need to get much larger to want to run it.
Basing changes to an average cube on results from the MTGO cube isn't wise advice, IMO. White is far from underpowered in the average cube list, and cutting any of the great white cards in most cubes for this card wouldn't increase it's average performance.
I think the Steelshaper's is a fine card, especially if you run a very robust equipment suite. I think it's probably better than Enlightened Tutor in cube. You should give it a shot, Naill, and let us know how it works out. Bear in mind that just a few months ago on this forum, there was talk of Stoneforge Mystic being worse than the Soltari brothers.
I think the Steelshaper's is a fine card, especially if you run a very robust equipment suite. I think it's probably better than Enlightened Tutor in cube. You should give it a shot, Naill, and let us know how it works out. Bear in mind that just a few months ago on this forum, there was talk of Stoneforge Mystic being worse than the Soltari brothers.
The thing about SS's gift is that it requires you to have at least 1 bomb equipment to use it at all, and preferably 3+ so that you don't have a dead card when you draw it and already have your equipment.
That makes it fairly narrow, as in the cube, the bomb equipment is pretty much all top-pick material, and it is hard to draft a multi-sword deck consistently enough to merit drafting SS's Gift early.
I do think it goes great in larger cubes where there is room for more P1P1 equipment.
Of course nobody will pick it in the first few picks, but there's nothing wrong with including a card that will get picked late and fits into a specific type of deck (e.g. most gold cards). It may go 15th much of the time, or be passed in a Winston 80% of the time, but once picked up it'll probably have a big impact on the game much more often than its pick order would indicate.
I don't think it's anywhere near the power-level of Enlightened Tutor in the cube. Not by any stretch.
Then I think you may be heavily overvaluing Enlightened Tutor. There aren't too many artifacts/enchantments which are worth both card AND tempo disadvantage. I'll try to list the non-equipment ones I notice from your cube:
I'll concede that being able to tutor at instant speed is nice for denying your opponent the chance to respond, but I'm guessing that at least half the time I'd be happier with Steelshaper's Gift than an Enlightened Tutor. Maybe in your own personal evaluation style, since you seem to value flexibility/consistency much higher than potential power, 50% of the time is not enough to make Steelshifter's Gift worth including alongside or in place of the Tutor. But personal preference aside, I strongly disagree that the Tutor is leagues above Steelshaper's Gift.
It's clearly no Stoneforge, in that it doesn't help get the target into play or provide a body. But if all you need is that one busted equipment, it's much better than Enlightened Tutor. Steelshaper's Gift has been key in equipment based Modern decks (specifically, metalcraft aggro) this season.
- Grab a protection sword against their color
- Snag that Jitte and just win
- Search for skullclamp and start drawing cards with Emeria Angel (etc.)
- Block and Attack (Batterskull, Bonehoard)
- Ping an opposing Dark Confidant with your Mortarpod.
Thoughts?
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The truth is, this card will keep getting better and better as the years roll around and design around the equipment subtype matures (living weapons was a big leap and shows just the kind of design space that equipment allows).
- searches for an equipment
- already provides a body you can equip (card advantage)
- mana cost reduction of equipment (does not matter much except for Batterskull)
Steelshaper's gift provides only one of these.
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IMO, what you want to avoid is putting this in an really ever having a scenario where it appears in pack 2 and there are only 3 pieces of equipment in the draft thus far. Those pieces of equipment are held by decks that are already firmly nonwhite or whose fundamental plan is strong enough that finding their piece of equipment in a timely fashion isn't worth running this card. It tables around repeatedly before being someone's screw card.
I can't imagine many white decks where I am running more than one piece of equipment where Steelshaper's Gift wouldn't make my final 23.
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This is indeed the question. But 10 out of a 360 means that if 5/8 decks can use equipment, they will all end up with an average of 2. It may not work out that way, but those numbers aren't as bad as they seem.
Assuming you're playing a format where every card in the cube is being used (which is rare here) and that there's 3 decks at the table that don't want any equipment at all. Those are both pretty unreliable estimations for my cube.
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It actually doesn't matter how many people are playing, the percentage stays the same. Assuming a 45 card pool per player, there are 1.25 pieces of equipment per player in your cube. Getting a hold of two for a white equipment deck really shouldn't be that difficult.
But not too unreliable for cubes that run 8 man drafts. I would like to assume we're talking about 8 man drafts when discussing cube unless something else is specified. It may not be the most common on these boards but it certainly is the case for many of us as well as everyone that plays MTGO cube.
EDIT: I do agree this card loses value in 2 man formats, everyone wants to play equipment in those formats so the competition for it is fierce.
But the reliability is gone. On average, there can be 1.25 per player. But there could only be 3 in the pool, or 7. Unlike something like Enlightened Tutor, getting enough targets in the same pool/deck isn't reliable.
And that doesn't factor in Winston or Sealed either, which makes the results even more random.
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Based on this, there's nothing I want more in my white decks than the ability to do those two things regularly. I think that the cards are just that powerful (and yes, I'd likely try to splash blue for mystical tutor so I could reliably cast Geddon). Were I unable to pick up Stoneforge, I would happily run this card in any white-based deck so long as I had one of the 6 most busted equipment (5 swords, jitte), and w/ Skullclamp and Batterskull in certain decks as well. If I had Stoneforge in my deck, I would probably not run Gift at all.
I don't think this is a 360 card, because there are relatively few people that want Stoneforge (2 or 3, probably). But I don't think you need to get much larger to want to run it.
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The thing about SS's gift is that it requires you to have at least 1 bomb equipment to use it at all, and preferably 3+ so that you don't have a dead card when you draw it and already have your equipment.
That makes it fairly narrow, as in the cube, the bomb equipment is pretty much all top-pick material, and it is hard to draft a multi-sword deck consistently enough to merit drafting SS's Gift early.
I do think it goes great in larger cubes where there is room for more P1P1 equipment.
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I don't think it's anywhere near the power-level of Enlightened Tutor in the cube. Not by any stretch.
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Then I think you may be heavily overvaluing Enlightened Tutor. There aren't too many artifacts/enchantments which are worth both card AND tempo disadvantage. I'll try to list the non-equipment ones I notice from your cube:
Pernicious Deed
Wurmcoil Engine
Recurring Nightmare
Treachery
Winter Orb
Coalition Relic (maybe)
Tangle Wire (if you can get it out in time)
Crucible of Worlds (if you have Strip Mine)
Oblivion Ring (if they're about to PW ultimate)
I'll concede that being able to tutor at instant speed is nice for denying your opponent the chance to respond, but I'm guessing that at least half the time I'd be happier with Steelshaper's Gift than an Enlightened Tutor. Maybe in your own personal evaluation style, since you seem to value flexibility/consistency much higher than potential power, 50% of the time is not enough to make Steelshifter's Gift worth including alongside or in place of the Tutor. But personal preference aside, I strongly disagree that the Tutor is leagues above Steelshaper's Gift.