Great card. As others have said, he's the 4th to 6th best Orzhov card. At this point, I can't decide if I should run him or not. Having two similar Sorin walkers is kind of a bummer, but he's powerful and supports both tokens, Pox/Stax, and BW aggro. I'd have to cut my pet Desolation Angel for him, which almost by itself makes me want to draft WB or Esper control. I'm not sure I want all my Orzhov cards pulling in the same direction, but this Sorin supports a lot of decks I want to be viable. Hard choices.
I don't think it would be too OP or out-of-color at that casting cost either. Oh well.
That's true. +1 is a Cruel Feeding, -2 produces Bloodline Keeper's tokens, and the emblem is Sheoldred, Whispering One's last ability. Works perfectly well as monoblack, and the color definitively needs a new planeswalker.
And there's precedence for global lifelink in black now thanks to Whip of Erebos. I think it would've fit just fine at 2BB with no changes. It would've been good, but not so much so that it would've been unprintable. I'd even be happy with it at 3BB if they bump the starting loyalty by 1 or changed the {-2} to a {-1}. Bummer.
I definitely agree with Wtwlf. This would have been an auto-include, no questions asked, if it were mono-black. Even though I recognize that this card is probably the 4th or 5th most powerful Orzhov card I cannot justify running another walker that has some overlap with his Innistrad self (although I definitely appreciate their differences). I have been trying to reduce the number of planeswalkers, especially at the four mana casting cost.
I will include new Sorin as the #5 Orzhov card in my 540 (behind Vindicate, Lingering Souls, old Sorin & Unburial Rites) but new Sorin will ultimately get bumped when they print a better WB card. Maybe I'm undervaluing him but I don't see him unseating any of those top 4 (and by a significant margin).
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
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2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Mister Lamp, I want you to know I just took a shot.
Add me to the list of people who wishes they'd made this mono-black instead. I still don't have a planeswalker in my black section, and I don't plan to until I somehow get a hold of a Liliana of the Veil, or WOTC prints something new that's better than the current options. This new Sorin really feels like a missed opportunity to make one too have made a new black walker, too, because nothing about any of the mechanics feels particularly white except for white, which still falls well within the black section of the color pie.
The card does look solid enough to make the cut in my Orzhov section, though, that +1 ability should be incredible in any deck that has creatures. It's definitely not as good as Sorin, Lord of Innistrad but since I don't have a Vindicate I can see cutting Tidehollow Sculler for new Sorin.
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Is this the first time we've seen a Crusade effect as a + ability on a planeswalker? I think it is, and it's the best + ability on a 4-mana walker we've seen in quite some time.
I'm not convinced old Sorin is better, to be honest.
In control/superfriends decks and in Stax-type decks, edge goes to the old Sorin.
As a curve topper in aggro and in token decks, this seems preferable.
I think it's easily the 4th best card in a shallow guild, and has a real shot of replacing his older self as #3.
I prefer old Sorin because creating lifelink tokens on his + ability means that he goes into more decks than new Sorin. Old Sorin had something to do in all kinds of decks, from aggro to control. New Sorin's + ability wants you to have some creatures around and he is overall a worse fit for control and other creature-light decks.
I think Old Sorin is better than this one in any deck either of them want to go into. They both go into the same deck, and I'd much rather prefer the former rather than the latter. Plusing while creating tokens is so much stronger than minusing while creating tokens, and that's the main metric I'm going to use to determine how good the card is.
Making guys can get me back from a losing board state, but if I need to make two tokens with new sorin, he dies. If I need to make two tokens with old sorin, he's actually stronger than before.
New sorin can cause greater blowouts right off the bat, but I'd rather have a card that brings me back from a losing position a higher percentage of the time.
New sorin does have a slight edge in being able to handle small flyers.
I don't see the appeal on this guy, which is great news. I'm always happy to have a reason to not run planeswalkers.
Also, here's an honest question to consider... How are you going to refer to him in cube? Because in my mind, he's "Crappy Sorin." I feel like every time I'd see him in a pack I'd get excited and then realize that this isn't Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
On average he is worse than Sorin, Lord of Innistrad but that is not always the case. His first ability is very strong since it lasts until your next turn, while the minus creates a flying 2/2, which is actually pretty sick for a planeswalker. Talk about a walker that can defend itself, unfortunately only for one turn. The ultimate is much more grindy.
So far I'm testing him over the new instant Vindicate, which is also a great #4-6 WB cube card.
Edit: More specifically I've felt that the Orzohv top 3 are far superior to the fourth best Orzohv card, which many people say is this now. Is he closer to the level of lingering souls, vindicate, Lord of innistrad, or the orzohv 5-10?
I've had mixed results; generally positive, but held to a high standard. Sorin really wants you to have a board presence, so he's kind of horrendous when you're behind, but the closer you are to even-or-better board position, the better he is. He's not useless when he's making a 2/2 into an empty board, but there are a lot of cards that get around him and Sorin can be easily burned at with only 2 loyalty left. You gain a huge swing when your tokens--lets say 5, for example--are swinging for a potential 20 point life swing instead of just 5 damage. If your cube heavily supports tokens, I like Sorin, but that would have to be a large cube as I feel the other orzhov options are generally better in the smaller cubes even with heavy Token support. But even then, he's a planes walker and only the worst planes walkers feel out of place in cubes of any size, and I don't believe Sorin is anywhere close to one of the worst.
Edit: More specifically I've felt that the Orzohv top 3 are far superior to the fourth best Orzohv card, which many people say is this now. Is he closer to the level of lingering souls, vindicate, Lord of innistrad, or the orzohv 5-10?
Closer to the other 5-10, but he's probably solidly in the #4 or #5 position.
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Took the words right out of my mouth. This could've been a mono-colored planeswalker, and it would've been sweet to see another good mono-black one.
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That's true. +1 is a Cruel Feeding, -2 produces Bloodline Keeper's tokens, and the emblem is Sheoldred, Whispering One's last ability. Works perfectly well as monoblack, and the color definitively needs a new planeswalker.
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Add me to the list of people who wishes they'd made this mono-black instead. I still don't have a planeswalker in my black section, and I don't plan to until I somehow get a hold of a Liliana of the Veil, or WOTC prints something new that's better than the current options. This new Sorin really feels like a missed opportunity to make one too have made a new black walker, too, because nothing about any of the mechanics feels particularly white except for white, which still falls well within the black section of the color pie.
The card does look solid enough to make the cut in my Orzhov section, though, that +1 ability should be incredible in any deck that has creatures. It's definitely not as good as Sorin, Lord of Innistrad but since I don't have a Vindicate I can see cutting Tidehollow Sculler for new Sorin.
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I'm not convinced old Sorin is better, to be honest.
In control/superfriends decks and in Stax-type decks, edge goes to the old Sorin.
As a curve topper in aggro and in token decks, this seems preferable.
I think it's easily the 4th best card in a shallow guild, and has a real shot of replacing his older self as #3.
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Making guys can get me back from a losing board state, but if I need to make two tokens with new sorin, he dies. If I need to make two tokens with old sorin, he's actually stronger than before.
New sorin can cause greater blowouts right off the bat, but I'd rather have a card that brings me back from a losing position a higher percentage of the time.
New sorin does have a slight edge in being able to handle small flyers.
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Also, here's an honest question to consider... How are you going to refer to him in cube? Because in my mind, he's "Crappy Sorin." I feel like every time I'd see him in a pack I'd get excited and then realize that this isn't Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
So far I'm testing him over the new instant Vindicate, which is also a great #4-6 WB cube card.
Edit: More specifically I've felt that the Orzohv top 3 are far superior to the fourth best Orzohv card, which many people say is this now. Is he closer to the level of lingering souls, vindicate, Lord of innistrad, or the orzohv 5-10?
thats my cube
I've had mixed results; generally positive, but held to a high standard. Sorin really wants you to have a board presence, so he's kind of horrendous when you're behind, but the closer you are to even-or-better board position, the better he is. He's not useless when he's making a 2/2 into an empty board, but there are a lot of cards that get around him and Sorin can be easily burned at with only 2 loyalty left. You gain a huge swing when your tokens--lets say 5, for example--are swinging for a potential 20 point life swing instead of just 5 damage. If your cube heavily supports tokens, I like Sorin, but that would have to be a large cube as I feel the other orzhov options are generally better in the smaller cubes even with heavy Token support. But even then, he's a planes walker and only the worst planes walkers feel out of place in cubes of any size, and I don't believe Sorin is anywhere close to one of the worst.
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Closer to the other 5-10, but he's probably solidly in the #4 or #5 position.
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