MTG Salvation

Tears apart pesky turn 2 walls more quickly than Lightning Blast...Also not a terrible thing to do when you can't punch through with a few shrimps like red is ought to have.

I am feeling staple, especially with pushing tokens in red. There will be times when you can play this for free after a seige gang commander.

Now I dont want to get too far ahead of myself, most of the time your are turning your red guys sideways so tapping them for mana may not be a plus. But there are other times when your guys are outclassed and need something to do.

Seems like I'd rather use a burn spell that already costs less mana and use my red creatures to attack my opponent.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Seems like I'd rather use a burn spell that already costs less mana and use my red creatures to attack my opponent.

How many burn spells do you run the do 4 damage to a creature or player? The only one I can think of is Char. How many times will I not have a creature to tap when I needed to cast this thing? vs How many times was I able to cast this cheaper or couldn't spend the life?

Not that I advocate dropping Char, but that card has always been amazing, and 4 damage is waaayyyy more than 3 in my book.

You forgot to factor in: How many times will I tap a creature to be able to cast this when another burn spell would've been just as effective? 4 damage is more than 3, but tapping a creature in order to cast it will probably cost me damage more often than it will net damage for me. So, I'd rather use a 2 or 3cc burn spell that doesn't require me to tap my dudes in order to cast it, even if it does 1 less damage. And casting this thing for 4 mana is really rough.

Edit: Oh, and Char is much better. It doesn't require me to have creatures/sacrifice attacking damage to deal 4 damage for 3 mana. And the lifeloss drawback is largely irrelevant in red.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

You forgot to factor in: How many times will I tap a creature to be able to cast this when another burn spell would've been just as effective? 4 damage is more than 3, but tapping a creature in order to cast it will probably cost me damage more often than it will net damage for me. So, I'd rather use a 2 or 3cc burn spell that doesn't require me to tap my dudes in order to cast it, even if it does 1 less damage. And casting this thing for 4 mana is really rough.

Edit: Oh, and Char is much better. It doesn't require me to have creatures/sacrifice attacking damage to deal 4 damage for 3 mana. And the lifeloss drawback is largely irrelevant in red.

Good points, and you might be right. For me it is a definite tester. I know 3 is easier than 4, but i have a hard time classifying this as really rough vs Char being so much better. I may find out that too many of my red creatures have haste, or are already dead to make this work. Or maybe in a powered cube like yours things are just too fast and tight to make this work.

I just like it as another burn spell I could use that will get picked up by the red deck vs. another searing spear splashed by control or midrange. It is also a bummer it is not 3R which would have been easier from a splashable interaction with Lingering souls, deranged hermit etc.

Edit: I also try to think of things like this in the context of Burst Lightning, A card I want to thank you for convincing me on. Imagine this as modal, 4 for 4 if you can wait for it or 4 for less but you have to give up your creature for a round.

The average case seems to be when you have 1+ creatures already on board at T4, you play a 2-drop that's summoning sick and use it + 1 other creature to burn something for 4. You can play the rest of your 1-drops and cast it for "free" as well. This really helps when your opponent is starting to stabilize, and gives the opportunity to deploy more to the board while cleaning it up for your existing team.

I might take out Mizzium Mortars for it.

Mortars plays a very different role and leads to some awesome blowouts. I will probably not be trying out Stoke the Flames in my 720 card Cube.

I think Mizzium Mortars is a lot better, personally. 4 damage burn spells are very important nowadays and that card has huge upside. Despite that this looks like a great extra burn spell for mid+ cubes.

I think this does have the benefit of being a "free" spell that people might have to take into account when playing. It could be like Fireblast in that way.

Fireblast is good because it can get in for the last 4 damage after you attack your opponent with all your creatures. Not instead of attacking them with all your creatures.

Red seems like the color that least wants to be spending their creatures on mana instead of face smashies.

Also, you're forgetting Flame Javelin if you want more 4-damage burn spells that are borderline cubeworthy.

I think this is better than Flame Javelin. Javelin is 2RR, 4R, or RRR. This card is 2RR or 2R (tap a red creature you control) with the potential to even be a bit better. I think having a spare creature is more likely than having RRR.

Like this card quite a bit.
I'm having a hard time intuiting the value of convoke on it, want to test it out.
Could easily be overestimating it

I have Fireblast, Char, and Mizzium Mortars for 4 damage burn (not counting X-spells).

If I wanted more than that I think I would play flame javelin first. Though I wouldn't argue with someone using this instead.

What is your argument for Flame Javelin over Stoke the Flames? Do you play a lot of mono-red decks in your cube that realistically hit RRR by turn 4/5?

This is a better cube card than Flame Javelin in my opinion. Javelin is usually 2RR in cube, rarely RRR. If you're looking to support monored with Javelin there are much better options like Searing Blaze, Kargon, Revel, Ash Zealot, etc.

I'll let others test it before playing it myself.

I think this card is a much better card than Flame Javelin and a much worse card than Char, but I think most people are of that same opinion.

Quote from Asenion »

What is your argument for Flame Javelin over Stoke the Flames?

I can play it for 3 mana, and with 2 casting options that have less than a RR colored mana requirement without having to tap down my creatures to do so.

I don't know if flame Jav is better or not, but tapping down your creatures to cast burn spells is a huge drag.

I think costing triple red to cast your burn spells is a huge drag.

Then we're agreed that they're both pretty bad and probably shouldn't be present in most reasonably-sized cubes?

Quote from Asenion »

I think costing triple red to cast your burn spells is a huge drag.

It is! Which is why I don't cube with that card either.

This seems bad. Tapping your creatures to play burn is not good. Flame Javelin is much better than this, and like others have said, that is only fringe cubable.

I think Flame Javelin is significantly worse than this. (Unless your cube pushes Mono-red. Flame Javelin is better if you don't play 2-color aggro primarily.) Char is significantly better. Flameblast and Mizzium Mortars aren't really comparable because they are much easier to cast but much more limited in scope. (Flameblast almost always goes at the face and Mizzium Mortars only goes at creatures - this and Char can do either, which is huge.)

If I was looking for another generic 4-damage burn spell after Char, this would be my choice to test.