Yisan, The Wandering Bard2G
Legendary Creature- Human Rogue 2GT, Put a verse counter on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard: Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the number of verse counters on Yisan, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
2/3
So I dismissed this guy at first for being too slow, as I assume most other people did as well. It only occurred to me after reading the Rebels thread that I realized how close this ability is to rebel searching, and how close this creature is to Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero. The trade-offs:
+ Less competitive slot
+ Less color-intensive
+ Searches up creatures of any color or creature type (the whole reason Lin Sivvi isn't cubed in the first place)
+ Can potentially set up creature combos
+ 1 extra point of power
- Higher upfront ability cost
- Can only search up dorky creatures for the first few turns (though mana dorks help with later activations)
- Requires a low, creature-intensive curve
- Can't work as a recursion engine for a single threat
Definitely seems worthy of consideration, at the very least.
Might be playable in larger cubes and/or cubes that have a lot of Birthing Pod support. I'll pass on Yisan, it's way too many turns and too much mana invested for minimal return until you start hitting 4+ CMC creatures. One of the reasons Lin Sivvi was great was you could go right for 4 CMC rebels the turn after you played her.
I don't think this is good enough for 450 Powered. If you're investing your 3rd and 4th turns to get a 2/3 and an Elf or a Zoo 1-drop, even with the potential of larger payoff in the future, you're not going to win.
It could be a reasonable card in an MTGO-like Cube environment.
Unfortunately, the pluses and minuses are not all equal.
The big draw of Lin Siivi is the ability to grab the biggest possible thing and use all your available mana. Dropping a four drop the turn after this is not going to be possible. Being limited to 1 CMC and then increasing incrementally is far too slow, particularly given the 'set' cost of 3 to activate early on. I understand why that's the case, but it's just too slow. You can't easily use it for combos, as you can't even search a creature less than X. Hitting a 'cost gap' is entirely possible as well in a 40 card deck. Sadly, I think it's really poor.
Very cool card, but I think it's ultimately too slow for powered cube environments. If it was 2 to cast (with a 1/2 body or something) and 3 to activate, it would've likely been worthwhile. But I think it's a turn too slow as it stands.
It think this card is pretty interesting. As a 2/3 for three the rate is not something I would get excited about but is certainly a solid body. Now 3 mana is a bit of a bummer for the activated ability but it is hugely powerful. I think by the second activation this guy gets really exciting. It is grabbing stoneforge mystic, or fauna shaman, or all of the other broken stuff. A U/G ramp control deck would love this guy.
The problem is that it is just going to be too slow for powered or tight cubes. Sure you can just start lobbing out dorks to chump but cube has dozens of ways to kill this guy for 1-2 mana. If his ability was cheap enough to make a play on turn 4 while activating him, it might be worth the gamble. As it is something like the Courser or Somberwald Sgae is probably better.
I don't think this is even good enough for bigger cubes. It's certainly way, way worse than birthing pod, and a lot of cubes don't run that.
This guy is too slow, too fragile, and too mana intensive. Pass.
I don't think Birthing Pod is really a fair comparison. That card doesn't add a body to the board and requires lots of specific support cards to form an archetype around itself. Yisan is just a value card that wants you to run a curve. Even if you're just grabbing a mana dork on the first activation, you're still getting impactful card advantage with no strange deckbuilding shenanigans.
Also, the fact that he activates at instant speed makes his body much more relevant, allowing him to tangle with the Goblin Guides of the world just fine. If your opponent aims a removal spell at him, so be it. You didn't invest much, and 3-drops aren't required to pass the Vindicate test.
I don't think Birthing Pod is really a fair comparison. That card doesn't add a body to the board and requires lots of specific support cards to form an archetype around itself. Yisan is just a value card that wants you to run a curve. Even if you're just grabbing a mana dork on the first activation, you're still getting impactful card advantage with no strange deckbuilding shenanigans.
Also, the fact that he activates at instant speed makes his body much more relevant, allowing him to tangle with the Goblin Guides of the world just fine. If your opponent aims a removal spell at him, so be it. You didn't invest much, and 3-drops aren't required to pass the Vindicate test.
Except he doesn't really want a curve. If you are curving with him, you are dumping 3 mana into it every single turn which means you waste t4 (or t4 equivalent mana) to tutor a one-drop, and turn five (or 5 mana) you maybe get 2 2-drops. It takes this guy forever to chain up to where birthing pod gets fast, and you aren't getting good CITP effects on most creatures until you've already activated this guy 3 times and dumped 12(!!) mana into him. It will take a ton to convince me this card is anything but bad.
Except he doesn't really want a curve. If you are curving with him, you are dumping 3 mana into it every single turn which means you waste t4 (or t4 equivalent mana) to tutor a one-drop, and turn five (or 5 mana) you maybe get 2 2-drops. It takes this guy forever to chain up to where birthing pod gets fast, and you aren't getting good CITP effects on most creatures until you've already activated this guy 3 times and dumped 12(!!) mana into him. It will take a ton to convince me this card is anything but bad.
That's the thing though: you don't need CITP effects or a "chain". Simply holding up mana on turn 4 and tutoring up an Elvish Mystic is fine value, easing the burden of future activations or letting you ramp out a titan in hand. Worrying about how much mana it takes to get great CIPT effects is irrelevant.
It might still be too much of a tempo hit to make the cut in faster cubes, but don't underestimate the power of tutoring. If you're worried about fragility, tutor up a Mother of Runes or Spellskite. If you're having Jitte problems, you can find your Gorilla Shaman or Qasali Pridemage. If you think you're ramping too slowly, grab a Joraga Treespeaker or a Rofellos. Meanwhile, you stockpile cards in hand and are better prepared for the long game. Getting to the bigger stuff is gravy.
That's the thing though: you don't need CITP effects or a "chain". Simply holding up mana on turn 4 and tutoring up an Elvish Mystic is fine value, easing the burden of future activations or letting you ramp out a titan in hand. Worrying about how much mana it takes to get great CIPT effects is irrelevant.
It might still be too much of a tempo hit to make the cut in faster cubes, but don't underestimate the power of tutoring. If you're worried about fragility, tutor up a Mother of Runes or Spellskite. If you're having Jitte problems, you can find your Gorilla Shaman or Qasali Pridemage. If you think you're ramping too slowly, grab a Joraga Treespeaker or a Rofellos. Meanwhile, you stockpile cards in hand and are better prepared for the long game. Getting to the bigger stuff is gravy.
Spending your entire turn 4 to cast glorified rampant growth is not where you want to be. If you're using this guy for ramp, assuming you hit your land drops he ramps you into a titan 1 turn early (and that's another turn you can't grow him), meaning you spent 6 mana to ramp by one. And if you get treespeaker, he ramps you only from 6-8, which is way less beneficial.
Further, he is just far, far too slow to be an effective answer to jitte or a sword. I don't run shaman, but let's say you want pridemage (only if you're GW of course - if you want one of the mono green answers because your deck is not in that specific color pair you are waiting at least three turns) - if they played jitte on curve, they have already gotten enough counters to kill this guy before you can tutor up the answer creature.
I think we are just going to fundamentally disagree on this card, but with how tuned and fast most smaller cubes are nowadays, I just see him as far too durdley to be reasonable.
If the activation cost were free I'd probably run it. Soaking up all my mana as well as being slow as hell is not what I want in my green 3 drops that are only 2/3s
If the activation cost were free I'd probably run it. Soaking up all my mana as well as being slow as hell is not what I want in my green 3 drops that are only 2/3s
If the activation were free, I'd at least test it.
This card's ability is closer to Hibernation's End than to Birthing Pod; but yeah, sometimes analogies can be moot. I understand the analogy with Pod because Pod is the closest cube card to this.
I think for the most part you will spend your third and fourth turns putting a 1 drop into play. This is a real slowdown in board development especially for green. Unlike Pod, you have to build your deck to have creatures at all points of the curve starting from 1. (Sure you may "fizzle" the search, but that would be a waste of mana)
I think the way to use this guy is with proliferate, Gilder Bairn and Vorel support for blue/green. I am leaning towards running a +1/+1 counters theme in my cube and will test him out if I have enough cards to support that strategy. I see him in a Cube that cares about counters of various sorts that can work well with those tools. Other than that, I don't see him getting much play.
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> Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the number of verse counters on Yisan
I think you've overlooked a huge downside as well: you can only get a creature with CMC EQUAL to the verse counters. So if you don't have a good 3 drop or you've naturally drawn them all, you can't just say "oh well, I guess I'll take a scavenging ooze instead."
I like her, I run 4 on MTGO in a green,black,blue with 2 Prophet of Kruphix, 4 Kiora's Follower, and a few gravediggers and lots of forced discard to keep them all safe. I'll admit its not a guaranteed win, but it works often ... the followers untap her to use her more than once, her third verse counter brings out a second copy, legendary puts that one in the graveyard, untap with follower, pull gravedigger to move the second ysan from the graveyard to your hand, untap again, pull prophet, end turn and they all untap thanks to prophet, so you can pull cmc 6,7,8. then play her with flash to restart at 0 verse on your turn and go from 0-3 again, then 4-6 at start of opponents turn as long as you have 2 of your 4 followers out. and 9 mana between lands with Market Festival and Sylvan Caryatid... i guess the key is surviving the first few turns before your set up. im sure this could be improved.
...edit: no sudbury ON- Canada - cube? oops my bad, I'm a noob.
Legendary Creature- Human Rogue
2GT, Put a verse counter on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard: Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the number of verse counters on Yisan, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
2/3
So I dismissed this guy at first for being too slow, as I assume most other people did as well. It only occurred to me after reading the Rebels thread that I realized how close this ability is to rebel searching, and how close this creature is to Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero. The trade-offs:
+ Less competitive slot
+ Less color-intensive
+ Searches up creatures of any color or creature type (the whole reason Lin Sivvi isn't cubed in the first place)
+ Can potentially set up creature combos
+ 1 extra point of power
- Higher upfront ability cost
- Can only search up dorky creatures for the first few turns (though mana dorks help with later activations)
- Requires a low, creature-intensive curve
- Can't work as a recursion engine for a single threat
Definitely seems worthy of consideration, at the very least.
Cubetutor Link
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I don't think this is good enough for 450 Powered. If you're investing your 3rd and 4th turns to get a 2/3 and an Elf or a Zoo 1-drop, even with the potential of larger payoff in the future, you're not going to win.
It could be a reasonable card in an MTGO-like Cube environment.
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The big draw of Lin Siivi is the ability to grab the biggest possible thing and use all your available mana. Dropping a four drop the turn after this is not going to be possible. Being limited to 1 CMC and then increasing incrementally is far too slow, particularly given the 'set' cost of 3 to activate early on. I understand why that's the case, but it's just too slow. You can't easily use it for combos, as you can't even search a creature less than X. Hitting a 'cost gap' is entirely possible as well in a 40 card deck. Sadly, I think it's really poor.
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The problem is that it is just going to be too slow for powered or tight cubes. Sure you can just start lobbing out dorks to chump but cube has dozens of ways to kill this guy for 1-2 mana. If his ability was cheap enough to make a play on turn 4 while activating him, it might be worth the gamble. As it is something like the Courser or Somberwald Sgae is probably better.
This guy is too slow, too fragile, and too mana intensive. Pass.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I don't think Birthing Pod is really a fair comparison. That card doesn't add a body to the board and requires lots of specific support cards to form an archetype around itself. Yisan is just a value card that wants you to run a curve. Even if you're just grabbing a mana dork on the first activation, you're still getting impactful card advantage with no strange deckbuilding shenanigans.
Also, the fact that he activates at instant speed makes his body much more relevant, allowing him to tangle with the Goblin Guides of the world just fine. If your opponent aims a removal spell at him, so be it. You didn't invest much, and 3-drops aren't required to pass the Vindicate test.
Cubetutor Link
Except he doesn't really want a curve. If you are curving with him, you are dumping 3 mana into it every single turn which means you waste t4 (or t4 equivalent mana) to tutor a one-drop, and turn five (or 5 mana) you maybe get 2 2-drops. It takes this guy forever to chain up to where birthing pod gets fast, and you aren't getting good CITP effects on most creatures until you've already activated this guy 3 times and dumped 12(!!) mana into him. It will take a ton to convince me this card is anything but bad.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
That's the thing though: you don't need CITP effects or a "chain". Simply holding up mana on turn 4 and tutoring up an Elvish Mystic is fine value, easing the burden of future activations or letting you ramp out a titan in hand. Worrying about how much mana it takes to get great CIPT effects is irrelevant.
It might still be too much of a tempo hit to make the cut in faster cubes, but don't underestimate the power of tutoring. If you're worried about fragility, tutor up a Mother of Runes or Spellskite. If you're having Jitte problems, you can find your Gorilla Shaman or Qasali Pridemage. If you think you're ramping too slowly, grab a Joraga Treespeaker or a Rofellos. Meanwhile, you stockpile cards in hand and are better prepared for the long game. Getting to the bigger stuff is gravy.
Cubetutor Link
Spending your entire turn 4 to cast glorified rampant growth is not where you want to be. If you're using this guy for ramp, assuming you hit your land drops he ramps you into a titan 1 turn early (and that's another turn you can't grow him), meaning you spent 6 mana to ramp by one. And if you get treespeaker, he ramps you only from 6-8, which is way less beneficial.
Further, he is just far, far too slow to be an effective answer to jitte or a sword. I don't run shaman, but let's say you want pridemage (only if you're GW of course - if you want one of the mono green answers because your deck is not in that specific color pair you are waiting at least three turns) - if they played jitte on curve, they have already gotten enough counters to kill this guy before you can tutor up the answer creature.
I think we are just going to fundamentally disagree on this card, but with how tuned and fast most smaller cubes are nowadays, I just see him as far too durdley to be reasonable.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Could only see it played with extreme mana + untap effects
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thats my cube
If the activation were free, I'd at least test it.
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I think for the most part you will spend your third and fourth turns putting a 1 drop into play. This is a real slowdown in board development especially for green. Unlike Pod, you have to build your deck to have creatures at all points of the curve starting from 1. (Sure you may "fizzle" the search, but that would be a waste of mana)
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I think you've overlooked a huge downside as well: you can only get a creature with CMC EQUAL to the verse counters. So if you don't have a good 3 drop or you've naturally drawn them all, you can't just say "oh well, I guess I'll take a scavenging ooze instead."
This card seems way too durdly for green.
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...edit: no sudbury ON- Canada - cube? oops my bad, I'm a noob.
Either way, wrong forum! This is the cube forum!
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